There is no Al-Qaeda (remove tinfoil hats)

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TuxDave

Lifer
Oct 8, 2002
10,572
3
71
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: dardin211
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
The objective of fundamentalist Islamists is to spread their brand of Islam around the world and install Islam as the basis for government everywhere, squashing liberty and freedom in the process.

Sure sounds a lot like the current goals of neoconservaties as well.
Really? Show me some trends. I don't see the neocons trying to install a Christian government in Afghanistan or Iraq, so your comment is pretty much nothing more than empty hyperbole.

You're being defensive.... :p
 

klah

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2002
7,070
1
0
Originally posted by: skace
Can anyone turn this into dvix / xvid / mpeg / wmv / anything besides rp?

There are higher quality versions on suprnova. Just do a search for "power".



 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Did you read the link from the Guardian I provided that talked about the premise of the film? Were they just making stuff up too. I suppose they didn't watch it either.

Yes, I did read it. I read the article saying:

The Power of Nightmares seeks to overturn much of what is widely believed about Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida. The latter, it argues, is not an organised international network. It does not have members or a leader. It does not have "sleeper cells". It does not have an overall strategy. In fact, it barely exists at all, except as an idea about cleansing a corrupt world through religious violence.

Adam Curtis argues that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not the organized internation network. I found his argument to be convincing. Your claim that he stated Al-Qaeda does not exist is a different interpretation of what Mr. Curtis is trying to show.

I still dont any arguments that you put forth to challenge his arguments. He makes a convincing case.

The topic starter began the attack first with his gross bastardization of one of my viewpoints. If he doesn't want to be attacked I suggest he not start it in the first place. The same goes for you.

My my, arent we getting upset. The OP presented his views, just as I am, and neither of us have indulged in personal attacks. I'm sure you are civilized enough to do the same.
 

Cobalt

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2000
4,642
1
81
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Forsythe
[edit]
* Now it finally makes sense, i've allways wondered why the name al-qaeda had no official spelling, everybody splled it differently, now i makes sense! I mean, if Bin Laden had come up with that name, everybody would know how to spell it. And even i fell for it.
I guess by that reasoning that means Quadafi, erm...Ghadaffi, err...Kadafi doesn't actually exist then? The leader of Libya is merely a figment of our imagination?

EDIT: Bad joke.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Sultan
Did you read the link from the Guardian I provided that talked about the premise of the film? Were they just making stuff up too. I suppose they didn't watch it either.

Yes, I did read it. I read the article saying:

The Power of Nightmares seeks to overturn much of what is widely believed about Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida. The latter, it argues, is not an organised international network. It does not have members or a leader. It does not have "sleeper cells". It does not have an overall strategy. In fact, it barely exists at all, except as an idea about cleansing a corrupt world through religious violence.

Adam Curtis argues that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not the organized internation network. I found his argument to be convincing. Your claim that he stated Al-Qaeda does not exist is a different interpretation of what Mr. Curtis is trying to show.
If al Qaeda only exists as an idea then it really doesn't exist at all. I'm now talking, and was then, about physical existence. Even though al Qaeda is loosely affiliated with many terrorist orgnaizations, it still has a command structure and therefore physically exists. Therefore I disagree with Curtis and don't find his argument convincing at all.

He's basically claiming that al Qaeda is a figment of our imagination, an invention as a means to rally the people, and I don't buy it. Figments don't fly planes into buildings.

The topic starter began the attack first with his gross bastardization of one of my viewpoints. If he doesn't want to be attacked I suggest he not start it in the first place. The same goes for you.

My my, arent we getting upset. The OP presented his views, just as I am, and neither of us have indulged in personal attacks. I'm sure you are civilized enough to do the same.[/quote][/quote]
If I began twisting your views around Sultan, you'd hit the roof. I've seen you do it in P&N on more than one occasion. Forsythe twisted my viewpoint into some it is/was not. You, of all people in here, should understand becoming upset when that happens.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
If al Qaeda only exists as an idea then it really doesn't exist at all. I'm now talking, and was then, about physical existence. Even though al Qaeda is loosely affiliated with many terrorist orgnaizations, it still has a command structure and therefore physically exists. Therefore I disagree with Curtis and don't find his argument convincing at all.

He's basically claiming that al Qaeda is a figment of our imagination, an invention as a means to rally the people, and I don't buy it. Figments don't fly planes into buildings.

What exactly is the command structure? Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about? From your own Guadrian link:

Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.

I would also like you to please provide a statement before 2001 from the US administration using the term "Al-Qaeda" as you claimed:

Well if that's true then somebodt better tell Richard Clarke and Bill Clinton they are full of sh!t because both claimed al Qaeda was a big concern of the Clinton administration throughout the 90s.

If I began twisting your views around Sultan, you'd hit the roof. I've seen you do it in P&N on more than one occasion. Forsythe twisted my viewpoint into some it is/was not. You, of all people in here, should understand becoming upset when that happens.

He twisted your viewpoint where? He posted a documentary which was different to your viewpoint. Does that warrant personal attacks? I may have done the same, but why are you comparing my actions to yours? I just requested you to not indulge in personal attacks, so there's no reason to get defensive.
 

glugglug

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2002
5,340
1
81
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: dababus
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: dababus
excellent documentary.........

I wish I can download it......

Open in real player - go to file>clip properties>view clip info> copy the url there into frontpage and then > preview the page and right click and save as ;)

Here - right click and save as - should work
http://images.indymedia.org/im.../power_nightmares_3.rm


Tried it but didn't work for me. :(

please post links to part one and part two here so I can download. thanks. :)

Right Click and SAVE AS.. works on that link just fine.. fix your computer :)
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: glugglug
Anyone have this in divx or quicktime format? I refuse to install RealPlayer...

http://www.free-codecs.com/dow...d/Real_Alternative.htm

^^^for me to use Real Alternative I have to copy the direct URL and then open the classic media player in the start>programs> real alternative folder and then paste that url in the file-> open submmenu .. Voila.. Real Videos without the evil Real Player LOL
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: alchemize
It was the Jooooooooos! And of course the Illuminati.

Boy we really suck at becoming fasicts and imperialists. And we are horrible at genocide. I mean, using 2,000 lb GPS guided bombs? That's gonna get really expensive at 20 brown skinned people per pop. How hard can it be?

Where's my kickback from the GOP? I'm part of the VRWC...

Wtf are yo talking about? Jews and illuminati? I tel you, tomb raider is a baaaad movie! Do not watch it.

I just think it's sad when i see a picture like this that seems to let people believe that Bush is somehow a new savior, or christ, for doing something everybody would have done. And who's he saving his your ass from? People who hate freedom??? Give me a break. There are some extremist muslims that hate people because they don't have the right morals, which they feel they do (Sound familiar?). And feel they are right to follow their Quran. And by invading a country, and i removing a dictator, in the worst way possible, and thereby killing relatives of people who will then become extremists because the evil Usa is a nation of evil terrorists that hate muslims, and thereby creating more people willing to ´blow themselves up, or subject themselves to a dictator to fight the infidels! If that's "saving your ass" ... People are stupid, you just have to figure out how to deal with it. In an ideal world, it would have worked, not in this one.


BBC Bias:

The BBC Bias Report

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/002702.php

"Some of the breaches are in our view quite glaring. At times, by a mere selection or omission of facts, the BBC provides a report which portrays the very opposite of the truth. Frequently the BBC report is misleading. At times it appears to invent material to suit its own bias."

A conclusion by TWO lawyers is your proof of BBC bias?



That was one link, google BBC and bias, youll find PLENTY including many within the UK.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Originally posted by: alchemize
It was the Jooooooooos! And of course the Illuminati.

Boy we really suck at becoming fasicts and imperialists. And we are horrible at genocide. I mean, using 2,000 lb GPS guided bombs? That's gonna get really expensive at 20 brown skinned people per pop. How hard can it be?

Where's my kickback from the GOP? I'm part of the VRWC...

Wtf are yo talking about? Jews and illuminati? I tel you, tomb raider is a baaaad movie! Do not watch it.

I just think it's sad when i see a picture like this that seems to let people believe that Bush is somehow a new savior, or christ, for doing something everybody would have done. And who's he saving his your ass from? People who hate freedom??? Give me a break. There are some extremist muslims that hate people because they don't have the right morals, which they feel they do (Sound familiar?). And feel they are right to follow their Quran. And by invading a country, and i removing a dictator, in the worst way possible, and thereby killing relatives of people who will then become extremists because the evil Usa is a nation of evil terrorists that hate muslims, and thereby creating more people willing to ´blow themselves up, or subject themselves to a dictator to fight the infidels! If that's "saving your ass" ... People are stupid, you just have to figure out how to deal with it. In an ideal world, it would have worked, not in this one.


BBC Bias:

The BBC Bias Report

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/002702.php

"Some of the breaches are in our view quite glaring. At times, by a mere selection or omission of facts, the BBC provides a report which portrays the very opposite of the truth. Frequently the BBC report is misleading. At times it appears to invent material to suit its own bias."

A conclusion by TWO lawyers is your proof of BBC bias?

That was one link, google BBC and bias, youll find PLENTY including many within the UK.

No, thank you, even the most conservative in this forum have had praise for BBC. You are the only one I've seen that differs. If you google up BBC and Bias and post that link, the others cannot be any better.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: glugglug
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
LOL that is one funny site. I thought Reagan was the anti-christ with the 666 thing (Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6)? Christ, make up your minds, tinfoilies...

 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: glugglug
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
LOL that is one funny site. I thought Reagan was the anti-christ with the 666 thing (Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6)? Christ, make up your minds, tinfoilies...

Hello, would you care to answer the questions I posed to TLC? He has similar viewpoints. This documentary states that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not as a worldwide network of organized terrorist activities. My questions were:

What exactly is the command structure? Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about? From your own Guadrian link:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: glugglug
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
LOL that is one funny site. I thought Reagan was the anti-christ with the 666 thing (Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6)? Christ, make up your minds, tinfoilies...

Hello, would you care to answer the questions I posed to TLC? He has similar viewpoints. This documentary states that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not as a worldwide network of organized terrorist activities. My questions were:

What exactly is the command structure? Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about? From your own Guadrian link:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.

Not really interested in discussing your excuses for killing 3,000 people on 9/11, Islamonazi-apologist.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: glugglug
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
LOL that is one funny site. I thought Reagan was the anti-christ with the 666 thing (Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6)? Christ, make up your minds, tinfoilies...

Hello, would you care to answer the questions I posed to TLC? He has similar viewpoints. This documentary states that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not as a worldwide network of organized terrorist activities. My questions were:

What exactly is the command structure? Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about? From your own Guadrian link:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.

Not really interested in discussing your excuses for killing 3,000 people on 9/11, Islamonazi-apologist.

So basically you're a big mouth with no reason who trolls these forums and indulges in personal attacks. :thumbsup:

Btw, what is your apology for this President in killing 15000+ innocent Iraqi civilians and the continuing terrorist action of the US forces in Iraq?
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: glugglug
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
LOL that is one funny site. I thought Reagan was the anti-christ with the 666 thing (Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6)? Christ, make up your minds, tinfoilies...

Hello, would you care to answer the questions I posed to TLC? He has similar viewpoints. This documentary states that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not as a worldwide network of organized terrorist activities. My questions were:

What exactly is the command structure? Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about? From your own Guadrian link:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.

Not really interested in discussing your excuses for killing 3,000 people on 9/11, Islamonazi-apologist.

So basically you're a big mouth with no reason who trolls these forums and indulges in personal attacks. :thumbsup:

Btw, what is your apology for this President in killing 15000+ innocent Iraqi civilians and the continuing terrorist action of the US forces in Iraq?

We can start discussing that once you start acknowledging basic truths, like 9/11 happened, there is an Al-Qaida and it committed 9/11, and it is wrong to murder your children under the guise of religious beliefs. Until then, we cannot have a reasonable discussion.

In other words, never.
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: glugglug
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
LOL that is one funny site. I thought Reagan was the anti-christ with the 666 thing (Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6)? Christ, make up your minds, tinfoilies...

Hello, would you care to answer the questions I posed to TLC? He has similar viewpoints. This documentary states that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not as a worldwide network of organized terrorist activities. My questions were:

What exactly is the command structure? Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about? From your own Guadrian link:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.

Not really interested in discussing your excuses for killing 3,000 people on 9/11, Islamonazi-apologist.

So basically you're a big mouth with no reason who trolls these forums and indulges in personal attacks. :thumbsup:

Btw, what is your apology for this President in killing 15000+ innocent Iraqi civilians and the continuing terrorist action of the US forces in Iraq?

We can start discussing that once you start acknowledging basic truths, like 9/11 happened, there is an Al-Qaida and it committed 9/11, and it is wrong to murder your children under the guise of religious beliefs. Until then, we cannot have a reasonable discussion.

In other words, never.

Here you go: Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, 9/11 happened, and it is wrong to murder under the guise of religious beliefs. Now will you answer the above questions?
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: glugglug
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
LOL that is one funny site. I thought Reagan was the anti-christ with the 666 thing (Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6)? Christ, make up your minds, tinfoilies...

Hello, would you care to answer the questions I posed to TLC? He has similar viewpoints. This documentary states that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not as a worldwide network of organized terrorist activities. My questions were:

What exactly is the command structure? Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about? From your own Guadrian link:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.

Not really interested in discussing your excuses for killing 3,000 people on 9/11, Islamonazi-apologist.

So basically you're a big mouth with no reason who trolls these forums and indulges in personal attacks. :thumbsup:

Btw, what is your apology for this President in killing 15000+ innocent Iraqi civilians and the continuing terrorist action of the US forces in Iraq?

We can start discussing that once you start acknowledging basic truths, like 9/11 happened, there is an Al-Qaida and it committed 9/11, and it is wrong to murder your children under the guise of religious beliefs. Until then, we cannot have a reasonable discussion.

In other words, never.

Here you go: Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, 9/11 happened, and it is wrong to murder under the guise of religious beliefs. Now will you answer the above questions?

Oh wow what a concession you made there. let's see
1) you think al qaeda doesn't exist as an organziation
2) you don't agree that AQ committed 9/11
3) You clearly think that what you condone isn't murder

Discussion finished.

 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
1
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: glugglug
Al Quaeda exists. It is the new name of the Bush Cabinet. They needed a new identity to run from their rep.
LOL that is one funny site. I thought Reagan was the anti-christ with the 666 thing (Ronald 6 Wilson 6 Reagan 6)? Christ, make up your minds, tinfoilies...

Hello, would you care to answer the questions I posed to TLC? He has similar viewpoints. This documentary states that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, not as a worldwide network of organized terrorist activities. My questions were:

What exactly is the command structure? Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about? From your own Guadrian link:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.

Not really interested in discussing your excuses for killing 3,000 people on 9/11, Islamonazi-apologist.

So basically you're a big mouth with no reason who trolls these forums and indulges in personal attacks. :thumbsup:

Btw, what is your apology for this President in killing 15000+ innocent Iraqi civilians and the continuing terrorist action of the US forces in Iraq?

We can start discussing that once you start acknowledging basic truths, like 9/11 happened, there is an Al-Qaida and it committed 9/11, and it is wrong to murder your children under the guise of religious beliefs. Until then, we cannot have a reasonable discussion.

In other words, never.

Here you go: Al-Qaeda exists as an idea, 9/11 happened, and it is wrong to murder under the guise of religious beliefs. Now will you answer the above questions?

Oh wow what a concession you made there. let's see
1) you think al qaeda doesn't exist as an organziation
2) you don't agree that AQ committed 9/11
3) You clearly think that what you condone isn't murder

Discussion finished.

So basically you're saying that if my viewpoint differs, you are by default right, and I am wrong.
1) this documentary goes about with the argument that Al-Qaeda exists as an idea. I agree with this viewpoint.
2) this documentary goes about with the argument that the term Al-Qaeda did not exist before 9/11. I agree with this viewpoint.
3) I agree with you that murder under the guise of religious beliefs is wrong. I dont know what you are complaining about now. A punishment for a crime is not murder.

Now if you are not going to answer my question which is relevant to this thread, please stop trolling.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC

"The publication in January 2004 of the Hutton Report dented this reputation in the eyes of some observers. This report criticised the standards of journalism at the BBC, and led to the resignations of Director-General Greg ***, Chairman of Governors Gavyn Davies, and the reporter at the centre of the storm, Andrew Gilligan."

Resignations even, want more?
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0

BBC's One-Sided Headlines

http://www.honestreporting.com...ne-Sided_Headlines.asp




Only in the U.K--pity

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2003/media062303.htm

"This effort to better track bias comes on the heels of specific complaints against the public broadcaster. Last month, the BBC admitted that it presented a biased radio interview involving a pedophile priest and a Cardinal."

There, now you have the BBC itself admitting they have presented things in a biased manner, if that's not enough you have serious problems of denial.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Sultan
If al Qaeda only exists as an idea then it really doesn't exist at all. I'm now talking, and was then, about physical existence. Even though al Qaeda is loosely affiliated with many terrorist orgnaizations, it still has a command structure and therefore physically exists. Therefore I disagree with Curtis and don't find his argument convincing at all.

He's basically claiming that al Qaeda is a figment of our imagination, an invention as a means to rally the people, and I don't buy it. Figments don't fly planes into buildings.

What exactly is the command structure?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/...al-qaida-structure.htm

Shura/Advisory Council - Usama bin Laden's inner circle; they direct the overall strategy of the organization.
Sharia/Political Committee - Responsible for issuing fatwas.
Military Committee - Resposible for conceiving and planning operations, as well as managing training camps.
Finance Committee - Responsible for fund-raising, and the concealment of assets.
Foreign Purchases Committee - Responsible for the acquisition of foreign arm and supplies.
Security Committee - Physical protection, intelligence, and counter-intelligence.
Information Committee - In charge of propaganda.

Where are the cave bunkers that US and British forces claimed with entrances wide enough to have tanks roll in? Where are the sleeper cells that the American and British government keep claiming about?
Don't know what you're talking abotu concerning the caves. As far as sleeper cells:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles...608.html?oneclick=true

Washington: The captured terrorist mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was carrying the names and phone numbers of members of al-Qaeda sleeper cells in North America when he was apprehended, according to intelligence officials.

From your own Guadrian link:

Of the 664 people detained up to the end of last month, only 17 have been found guilty. Of these, the majority were Irish Republicans, Sikh militants or members of other groups with no connection to Islamist terrorism. Nobody has been convicted who is a proven member of al-Qaida.

Last month would be September as the article was written in October 2004.
Aren't all the al Qaeda members still in Gitmo? Have it even been determined yet whether they are getting a trial?

I would also like you to please provide a statement before 2001 from the US administration using the term "Al-Qaeda" as you claimed:

Well if that's true then somebodt better tell Richard Clarke and Bill Clinton they are full of sh!t because both claimed al Qaeda was a big concern of the Clinton administration throughout the 90s.
It was used in '98 by Clinton. Time for you to start doing some of your own homework here, pal. Pretending something is not true instead of finding out yourself for a fact first is not good discussion practice.

If I began twisting your views around Sultan, you'd hit the roof. I've seen you do it in P&N on more than one occasion. Forsythe twisted my viewpoint into some it is/was not. You, of all people in here, should understand becoming upset when that happens.

He twisted your viewpoint where? He posted a documentary which was different to your viewpoint. Does that warrant personal attacks? I may have done the same, but why are you comparing my actions to yours? I just requested you to not indulge in personal attacks, so there's no reason to get defensive.

He twisted my viewpoint on page two of this thread. I suggest you read through it before throwing down the BS gauntlet.

Here's what he said:

Lets see, you're the one who believes in a worldwide conspiracy of terrorists, that are trying to hunt down and kill every american because they do not want freedom. Who's wearing the tinfoil?


I hope we are clear now?