there IS Hope for AMD ...Ruiz acknowledges a lot of things

[apoppin]

AMD - The Road Ahead
May 11, 2007

here's part of the conclusion

For the longest time it seemed like the only CPU articles we'd write were either disappointing AMD product launches or exciting new Intel announcements. AMD is changing, arguably later than we'd like, but at least it's happening.

For a while we had lost confidence in AMD, like many of you had as well, and although AMD's position in the market hasn't changed we are more confident now that it can actually bounce back from this. Intel seemed to have the perfect roadmap with Conroe, Penryn and Nehalem all lined up back to back, and we saw little room for AMD to compete. Now, coming away from these meetings, we do believe that AMD may have a fighting chance. Over the coming months you'll begin to see why; it won't be an easy battle, but it will be one that will be fought with more than just price.

AMD's Fusion strategy looks to be an even stronger part of its future plans, if Phil Hester's prediction of a heterogeneous processing era comes true. While Intel has managed to deliver a much stronger CPU roadmap, we don't have much of an understanding of its answer to Fusion in the long term. AMD has very much been a leader in areas such as the move to 64-bit, an on-die memory controller, and now we may see the same leadership role with the move to integrate the CPU and GPU.

it is often said that what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger; despite losing $611 million dollars last quarter, and not winning a single performance benchmark since Intel launched its Core 2 processors, AMD is not dead. Market share is diminished, morale is low, but it may just be possible for AMD to come back from this stronger than ever. We're not exactly sure how AMD has lasted through all of this, but if it can pull through, we may once again have two very competitive manufacturers in the CPU industry.

what *i* have been saying

but then i have been following 'AMD news' better than Anand
:Q



=======================================
this doesn't *fit* anywhere else

finally we are getting the *picture* ... from AMD

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39385

AMD's "tsunami" of products to change competitive picture


A RATHER DOWNBEAT AMD shareholder meeting had Hector Ruiz defending his position as two or three shareholders asked him what the heck is going down.

The first shareholder asked why AMD was behind Intel on process technology and Hector Ruiz pointed out that Chipzilla has a lot more marketing and R&D than his firm.

He said: "It's pretty clear to me the two companies have been quite different from the very beginning. Opteron for three or four years was the standard in performance and there was no product that matched it."

AMD's wafer diameter was still 200mm then and it did very well in spite of the process lead Intel had.

Ruiz said that AMD will introduce 45 nanometre chips in the middle of 2008. He said AMD has acknowledged it could have done things in Q4 and Q1 better.

"We have a tsunami of new products coming down the pipeline over the next 12 months," he said.

The next shareholder asked how things were going down with Dell.

Ruiz said AMD is "thrilled" to have Dell as a customer but is in the earliest stages of the relationship. The future promised more.

Another shareholder said that the conference call AMD did in December painted a very rosy picture, but Intel had been executing much better since.

He wanted to know why AMD is being so quiet about new products it might have.

Ruiz said that nothing AMD said in December had changed. He said AMD did have a lull of activity because the next generation begins with Barcelona in the second half of this year.

The next question was from an investor who asked Ruiz whether there was a media bias that didn't improve AMD's position. He asked how long AMD was going to be quiet and let the media have its way. He asked specifically about an article in Hardware Zone.

Ruiz said the reality is that the competitor had become stronger. He said AMD has been a little bit more vocal recently. He said AMD will do a better job in the future being vocal about its capabilities. But he said it costs money to do that. AMD didn't want Intel to have much of a clue about the next generation of products it had

these guys DO see the reality of their very precarious position and are FINALLY acknowledging it

they just need much better marketing - and PR to change perception

time is NOT on their side
:clock:

However, i now give AMD better than 50-50 to pull it off

 

[chizow]

Well, I think they do need better PR and Marketing, and that does cost money. Most every enthusiast knows Intel has always had more marketing and R&D bucks to throw around, but AMD has never had much of any marketing presence except for that crazy locomotive guy 4-5 years ago. They really should have pushed Opteron/A64 more when they had the performance edge, but they were just pinching pennies and trying to play catch-up instead. Big mistake imo as K8 didn't have as big of an impact on the mainstream as it could have.

They need a lot more than just PR and Marketing though. They need PRODUCT. I think AMD is just running scared because they simply don't know what they'll deliver and more importantly, when. If they had a killer product, they should be out flaunting it like Intel has done with their last few generations of processors. Or giving some glimpses of R600. But instead, they're in a position of keeping quiet because they simply don't want to be caught making promises they can't keep and further weakening their position.

 

[nemesismk2]

I am one of the few people (unless I am mistaken?) who think the acquisition of ATI was a bold and wise move by AMD so I think there is definitely reason for hope!

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
I am one of the few people (unless I am mistaken?) who think the acquisition of ATI was a bold and wise move by AMD so I think there is definitely reason for hope!

In the long-run maybe. R600 on the high-end looks to be a flop but if it can beat NV in the portable DX10 market that's where the big money is sitting.

In the short-term its been devastating to AMD. Every gloom and doom news bit published about them cites the 550 million operating loss in Q4 but they never disclose 500 million of that is from the acquisition of ATI. Reality is people just look at the bottom-line and don't care too much how you got there.

Its also weakened their cash and borrowing positions considerably to the point they're reportedly having problems finishing their 45nm fabs (the foundation for Barcelona btw). Not sure if the Q1 financials have been disclosed yet, but its supposed to be another quarter in the red.

 

[TecHNooB]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
I am one of the few people (unless I am mistaken?) who think the acquisition of ATI was a bold and wise move by AMD so I think there is definitely reason for hope!

No no no... when AMD was up and kicking ass, the majority of AT thought the acquisition was a great move by AMD.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
I am one of the few people (unless I am mistaken?) who think the acquisition of ATI was a bold and wise move by AMD so I think there is definitely reason for hope!

No no no... when AMD was up and kicking ass, the majority of AT thought the acquisition was a great move by AMD.

i admit it ... although ATi wasn't really 'kicking ass' ...

i thought it could be a very smooth ... but also acknowledged that AMD needed to do it - for the long run to survive ... and that it might not be smooth

well, then ... we got no product for a LONG time and a lot of "posturing" and bravado from AMD in Jan when i concluded they were *lost*

now i see something different emerging AMD acknowledging


1) "it could have done things in Q4 and Q1 better"

and explaining *why* they didn't launch

2) "AMD did have a lull of activity because the next generation begins with Barcelona in the second half of this year"

note no mention of r600 - it is not part of their "next gen" of product - like Barcelona is --and *why* they haven't been talking about their product

3) "the competitor had become stronger. He said AMD has been a little bit more vocal recently. He said AMD will do a better job in the future being vocal about its capabilities. But he said it costs money to do that. AMD didn't want Intel to have much of a clue about the next generation of products it had"

those 3 main things let me know that AMD is very aware of their desperate situation
-- IF Barcelona is decent, they can repay their loans and continue

it *hangs* on Barcelona - not 2900

and as to 2900


http://translate.google.com/translate?u...=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

page 3

, to striking after R600

?G80?????,AMD??????,???G80??????????,G80???????????,??????????????,???????????????????????,?????????????,???????????6.8??????????????90nm??????G80 issued in the day, AMD is indeed shocked, in front of the G80 and a far cry from the rumors before, G80 not only the coloring unified framework, and even further innovation computational modules, the whole shader part of the transistors are adopting two-speed dynamic logic circuit, shader frequency is no longer synchronized with the core, What is most astonishing is that this has 680 million transistors the "monster" was actually using 90nm process achieved.

?AMD?????????,?????,G80???????????R5xx????,????????????,????????????????????But AMD will soon return to the calm, because it found that G80 disadvantage with the structure of the R5xx those days, the targets are set-system overhaul. and by the process of the impact of the cost was too high. ?R600???AMD-IBM??????????????,???????????And the R600 was AMD-IBM advanced semiconductor technology support, hardware potential to be further tapped. R600??ATI?????A11????,???600MHz?????????,????A12??????????800MHz,??????????????
????????1GHz??????ATI R600 was in the original pre-acquisition cards A11 version, To achieve 600MHz frequency of the core is very difficult. But the latest version of A12 cards can already easily reached 800MHz, rumored next version even to the cooling of the core over 1GHz frequency. R600??ATI?????A11????,???600MHz?????????,????A12??????????800MHz,??????????????
????????1GHz??????ATI????,???????????,??512-bit???????????,AMD?NV???7800GTX??R520???????,???????????
G80???Such a high frequency of high computational capabilities, 512-bit video memory with the high bit-bandwidth, AMD NV 7800GTX year with a gimmick to deal with R-520 in full refund, with the shortest time to prepare a full-G80 killer.

We can see that AMD previously R5xx learned the painful lesson R600 in the design adopted a more conservative approach between performance and cost, Let R600 to just 580 million transistors will be able to meet or surpass the G80 using 680 million transistors have the Performance of the game. ??G80?????????,??????????????;?R600????????????????????????Although G80 general computing capacity stronger, but in the field of traditional graphics are not useful; and the R600 is one of the games and sanitation, but also for the general public graphics chip. ??????????????????:?ATI get in the game??This is also confirmed the previous sentence familiar advertisements : "ATI get in the game."

go AMD




... as apoppin prepares to build his next intel rig ... e4300 hopefully arriving today

 

[solofly]

Go Amd go... I want my Intel and Nvidia products nice and cheap.

 

[nyker96]

what he said is very sketchy, not backed up by any hard evidence so I can't say I take it seriously.

 

[AnotherGuy]

LOL looking at Apoppin and his ????? quote seems like hes decoding information from the WWII times... Finally hes found a good source and gettin some exclusive news/info. He cannot believe what he has discovered... hes jumpin on his bed like a happy 5 year old from excitement lol

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nyker96
what he said is very sketchy, not backed up by any hard evidence so I can't say I take it seriously.

the *difference* this time is that AMD acknowledges they are in a bad spot

before it was all posturing and BS

this is *progress* ... beginnings of honesty for their shareholders ... and us

and to show they really DO have a 'plan' to "comeback"

it *hinges* on Barcelona's success ... and to 'get ATi back in the game'

i said *hope* ... not a certain guarantee of AMD's success
-and before i had little to zero hope

that IS progress
=================

Originally posted by: AnotherGuy
LOL looking at Apoppin and his ????? quote seems like hes decoding information from the WWII times... Finally hes found a good source and gettin some exclusive news/info. He cannot believe what he has discovered... hes jumpin on his bed like a happy 5 year old from excitement lol

that ????????? is just how my browser is copied into the message box
--you can read it better there

and it IS a good source ... take it how you will

i had no hope for AMD/r600

'perhaps' there is some

i am cautious but pleased to bring you this info
--for you to decide

i am the messenger
[again]
:roll:

 

[tuteja1986]

I still think ATI will do just fine in the $300 to $400 price point.

 

[Regs]

I wish one of them had asked what they were doing for the past 4-5 years.

Hector makes it seem like they were waiting for "the competitor had become stronger. "

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Regs
I wish one of them had asked what they were doing for the past 4-5 years.

Hector makes it seem like they were waiting for "the competitor had become stronger. "

they are blaming that on their little R&D budget - compared with intel

why AMD was behind Intel on process technology and Hector Ruiz pointed out that Chipzilla has a lot more marketing and R&D than his firm.

He said: "It's pretty clear to me the two companies have been quite different from the very beginning. Opteron for three or four years was the standard in performance and there was no product that matched it."

AMD's wafer diameter was still 200mm then and it did very well in spite of the process lead Intel had.

Ruiz said that AMD will introduce 45 nanometre chips in the middle of 2008.

so it takes *that long* to go from Opteron to Barcelona ... AMD can afford NO mistakes

Look at intel going from P4 - M - C2D ... they have a much shorter cycle between their generations ... and they 'yanked the plug' on P4
:Q

AMD trys to *squeeze* everything they can out of a process before moving on ...
-and they just F*dup ... we can certainly see that --looking back ... and HR admitted it.

so ... i see a little hope

perhaps r600 will prove to not be so disappointing with its family launched with it and some pretty unique 'features'
-and AMD should get the DX10 benchs out ASAP

AMD doesn't know how to 'leak' ... not like nvidia ... DT was a "disaster" for them with no counterbalancing 'buzz' whatsoever ... a pre-release disaster for AMD
--IF i were CEO and 'caught' by DT like that, i'd have cancelled the NDAs so there would be a free-for-all of info ... but that's just me

-- and we'll know soon enough

and for me - it portends Barcelona ... what 'kind' of launch AMD can pull off

 

[Gstanfor]

They will count themselves lucky if they can stay neck and neck with VIA in the future IMO. Thats how badly the pooch is screwed.

The whole sorry saga strongly reminds me of how Commodore unravelled.

 

[jdoggg12]

Is Barcelona on a new socket? Maybe some cool new interaction between the mobo/cpu and the vid card that would necessitate a launch of all the products simultaneously? I dunno what i'm talking about, but it seems feasible

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
Is Barcelona on a new socket? Maybe some cool new interaction between the mobo/cpu and the vid card that would necessitate a launch of all the products simultaneously? I dunno what i'm talking about, but it seems feasible

Great, so I have to buy an AMD CPU, mobo and video card?

 

[jdoggg12]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
Is Barcelona on a new socket? Maybe some cool new interaction between the mobo/cpu and the vid card that would necessitate a launch of all the products simultaneously? I dunno what i'm talking about, but it seems feasible

Great, so I have to buy an AMD CPU, mobo and video card?

Seems like it'd be smart for them to enable a few special features only available on their hardware... just to push their own sales, they need it. but don't take my idea for anything more than a possibility... thats all.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
Is Barcelona on a new socket? Maybe some cool new interaction between the mobo/cpu and the vid card that would necessitate a launch of all the products simultaneously? I dunno what i'm talking about, but it seems feasible

Great, so I have to buy an AMD CPU, mobo and video card?

Seems like it'd be smart for them to enable a few special features only available on their hardware... just to push their own sales, they need it. but don't take my idea for anything more than a possibility... thats all.

Interesting thought, but Hector Ruiz can jump off a bridge if his company is castrating it's products so people will buy all AMD parts.

How would we feel if Nvidia crippled G80 if it werent run on a 680i or 650i mobo?

 

[jdoggg12]

^ you mean something like selling a feature on the video card for extra money after you've already bought it? (purevideo)

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
^ you mean something like selling a feature on the video card for extra money after you've already bought it? (purevideo)

Buying a video playback player is different than having to buy a specific company's mobo and CPU.

I thought PureVideo worked with free software?

 

[jdoggg12]

If it does - i was never able to find it.

But really... i doubt they made the proprietary adjustments, i was just speculating. I dont see why anyone would oppose it, if they can make it do everything the G80 AND some extra cool features on AMD hardware, it would provide a bonus for those with that hardware, but its not 'limiting' those with other hardware, as it still does everything the competition is doing.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: jdoggg12
If it does - i was never able to find it.

But really... i doubt they made the proprietary adjustments, i was just speculating. I dont see why anyone would oppose it, if they can make it do everything the G80 AND some extra cool features on AMD hardware, it would provide a bonus for those with that hardware, but its not 'limiting' those with other hardware, as it still does everything the competition is doing.

Meh, I still dont want to have to stick with one company just so I can have "cool" features. Especially if Barcelona doesnt stack up to C2D or Penryn.

 

[ronnn]

Whoopie an idiot gives amd a 50/50 chance!! Give it a break, computers seem to have reached some sort of wall and we will all soon be buying status elsewhere. :beer:

 

[apoppin]

really ?

who is the idiot?


please do tell

 

[Matt2]

LOL.

This could be good.