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there is a civil war right now in Colombia

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
11,834
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.. i waited because i was hoping someone else would post this.

Since the past 3 days there has been a massive unrest in colombia, due to a new set of laws that severely increase the taxes on the lower class and, idk, some other unbelievably criminal shit.
The EL PRESIDENTE has ordered the police to open fire on the protestors. Many dead.
etc ..
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
12,085
3,364
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Colombia's ruling class should take a lesson from our nation's Republicans where the leadership of said party can pursue a takedown of the nation's essential social services in broad daylight and have their own working class and poor members that will be most affected by those efforts hail and reelect their leaders for trying to raise their taxes and take their social security benefits, their medicare and every other gov't sponsored program away from them.
 
Nov 8, 2012
19,590
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LATAM is our middle east and will consistently keep erupting into chaos.

Regardless of how peace would be nice, I don't see anything for the next 50+ years.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
7,900
3,301
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“Colombia’s public security organism are still operating under the anachronistic doctrines of anti-communism, of an internal enemy, and as such protesters aren’t seen as citizens but as legitimate military targets that need to be taken out – no matter what.”
Why does that seem so...familiar?
 
Nov 8, 2012
19,590
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Actually ending the war on drugs would go a long way. Probably be enough to push most countries over the edge into normalcy.
So legalize everything, including heroin, meth, fentanyl, etc?

Or just decriminalize it?

Unless capitalism starts selling fentanyl like we do with weed stores, how does it stop the overall demand? And regardless of legalizing weed, the illegal market is still alive and well even in legalized states?

It really won't go a long way. They are shitholes and will remain as such. Keep in mind - I'm in full favor of legalization + decriminalization - but outside of bankrupting our private prison practices, how exactly does that lead to prosperity and non-corruption in Venezuela, Columbia, etc?
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,535
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So legalize everything, including heroin, meth, fentanyl, etc?

Or just decriminalize it?

Unless capitalism starts selling fentanyl like we do with weed stores, how does it stop the overall demand? And regardless of legalizing weed, the illegal market is still alive and well even in legalized states?

It really won't go a long way. They are shitholes and will remain as such. Keep in mind - I'm in full favor of legalization + decriminalization - but outside of bankrupting our private prison practices, how exactly does that lead to prosperity and non-corruption in Venezuela, Columbia, etc?
I dunno, funnel all the money currently going to the war on drugs/militarized police, to education and uplifting the poorest, so they don't have a desire to escape into shit like meth and fentanyl? You can't fix things by maintaining the status quo.

Not to say that the US is the only buyer of this shit, but it's the biggest last time I checked.

I'd say, decriminalize everything, then focus on improving the populations that are still trying to get it.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
9,115
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Actually ending the war on drugs would go a long way. Probably be enough to push most countries over the edge into normalcy.
I support decriminalizing use/possession, but I don't see how even full legalization would really help these countries. It seems like it would just prevent a lot of money following into them. Yeah, it'd hurt the curtails, but I doubt they'd just fade away.

I do wish we could do something to lift up Latin America, though. It'd be great if all the Americas were stable countries.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
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I support decriminalizing use/possession, but I don't see how even full legalization would really help these countries. It seems like it would just prevent a lot of money following into them. Yeah, it'd hurt the curtails, but I doubt they'd just fade away.
Primarily by starving the cartels, like you said. Cut the resources, and cut the demand, they don't have much reason to exist, nor a way to. It'll collapse them down to a more reasonable front that's more easily assailable.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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Primarily by starving the cartels, like you said. Cut the resources, and cut the demand, they don't have much reason to exist, nor a way to. It'll collapse them down to a more reasonable front that's more easily assailable.
Cartels have already moved on to plenty of other "legal" (sort of) ways of making money. Be it with legal crops, whiskey/alcohol, oil siphoning - and even investments through shell companies.

The politicians are already corrupted - so it's really just in essence an entirely corrupt government in the pockets of the cartels. You have to learn to stop thinking of them separately.

These countries are corrupt. They are run by the cartels - there is no separation, there is no "fix" that I can think of outside of military action.

 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
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Cartels have already moved on to plenty of other "legal" (sort of) ways of making money. Be it with legal crops, whiskey/alcohol, oil siphoning - and even investments through shell companies.

The politicians are already corrupted - so it's really just in essence an entirely corrupt government in the pockets of the cartels. You have to learn to stop thinking of them separately.

These countries are corrupt. They are run by the cartels - there is no separation, there is no "fix" that I can think of outside of military action.

Well then they're just an average country. Legal enterprises, bolstered via corrupt government officials in the pockets of a handful of elites, who does that remind you of?
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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Well then they're just an average country. Legal enterprises, bolstered via corrupt government officials in the pockets of a handful of elites, who does that remind you of?
You had logical arguments - then you just have to go woke and throw all rationale out the window.

Do you want to virtue signal in life or talk about how to solve problems?
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,535
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You had logical arguments - then you just have to go woke and throw all rationale out the window.

Do you want to virtue signal in life or talk about how to solve problems?
I was being snarky, but the point still stands. If they're behaving like an average country, what is there to fix? Sure they kill their citizens, but so do we, so... what's the point of the OP's article then?

Unless you think it's different, if so, how?
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,581
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Cartels have already moved on to plenty of other "legal" (sort of) ways of making money. Be it with legal crops, whiskey/alcohol, oil siphoning - and even investments through shell companies.

The politicians are already corrupted - so it's really just in essence an entirely corrupt government in the pockets of the cartels. You have to learn to stop thinking of them separately.

These countries are corrupt. They are run by the cartels - there is no separation, there is no "fix" that I can think of outside of military action.

America is responsible for much of the mess in central/south America thanks to its cold war shenanigans and then subsequently the war on drugs.

These countries did NOT get to this place on their own. We've spent years supporting state sponsored terrorism in Columbia (and other countries).
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
17,170
4,821
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Still waiting for this news event. Nope, nothing yet. If I have to search for it on the interwebs, can it really be this big a deal?
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,880
1,213
126
Columbia was in revolution from 1964 to 2016. It was a struggle between the government, the guerrillas and the cartels and towards the end Columbia came pretty close to becoming a lawless state. It took a huge effort which much compromise on both sides for the government and the guerrillas to reach a peace agreement which really looked like it was working.

Frontline (PBS) had a great two part series recently about the repercussions of Covid around the world, and one of the main people they featured a man from the Bogota mayor's office whose main job (pre-Covid) was implementing the peace agreement. Columbia had made a major recovery, but like too many countries the poor literally faced starvation in any sort of covid lockdown. We may see this sort of thing pop up across the "third world" in the next year or so.
 

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