Theo van Gogh's movie (link)

[Pliablemoose]

The recent violence in the Netherlands was sparked off by the murder of Theo van Gogh because of his movie, representing the abuse of a female Muslim.

I have a link to the movie: http://www.genoeg.nu/submission.asf

I ran it by the mods, and they have given it tenative approval, if you-all find it offensive, let me know & I'll remove the link. (there's some near nudity & graphic representations of violence)

 

[ChrisIsBored]

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...8763&enterthread=y

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
The recent violence in the Netherlands was sparked off by the murder of Theo van Gogh because of his movie, representing the abuse of a female Muslim.

I have a link to the movie: http://www.genoeg.nu/submission.asf

I ran it by the mods, and they have given it tenative approval, if you-all find it offensive, let me know & I'll remove the link. (there's some near nudity & graphic representations of violence)

That is disgusting and sickening. And I for one find it extremely offensive to find Quranic verses on a naked woman!

 

[alchemize]

Don't you dare pull this link off if someone "is offended". Screw em. thanks, I'll watch this later. I want to see what Islamists are willing to commit murder for.

 

[alchemize]

Good article on the dutch becoming Neocons.

I'm offended by you and your murderous ways, Sultan. Tough sh1t.

 

[Sultan]

On second thought, I dont care if you keep the link up there. In spite of the graphical depiction which is VERY offensive, the commentary the lady gives are not.

But it is stupid to believe that because you believe in the words of God, no matter Judaism, Christianity or Islam, God will make your life bliss in this world. God does not intervene in any one individual's life.

Most of her commentary is not representative of Islam.

As for alchemize, you can choke on that "tough sh!t" you speak off.

 

[Moonbeam]

I am offended by anything because I don't think you can offend God. Gods love completely buries offense. But I think that in doing what you think is good you can misrepresent what others are trying to go that is also good.

In short I don't think that the Islamic notion of surrender is much different that the Christian notion that you have been forgiven for your sins because in either case he who surrenders and who dies in Christ's name looses their ego. And the person without ego is a tremendously powerful force and not somebody whom you will easily beat on.

So what I think this film does is recognize that there are cultural inequities regarding gender in many or maybe all Islamic countries as compared to our own and that to address them the film takes a wrong turn. It attacks the very religion that stands as a buffer to even greater cultural gender inequalities. It attacks what is holy instead of what is corrupt. There are gender issues in Muslim countries but there isn't pornography, prostitution and sexual and other forms of sexual exploitation ramped throughout the culture. I think it would have been better perhaps if the film maker had been more critical at home.

At any rate the film is in gross contrast to what I see as the meaning of Islam. But I think you should fight misunderstanding with understanding rather than death.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Don't you dare pull this link off if someone "is offended". Screw em. thanks, I'll watch this later. I want to see what Islamists are willing to commit murder for.

Another quality/Compassionate Christian Voice?

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I am offended by anything because I don't think you can offend God. Gods love completely buries offense. But I think that in doing what you think is good you can misrepresent what others are trying to go that is also good.

In short I don't think that the Islamic notion of surrender is much different that the Christian notion that you have been forgiven for your sins because in either case he who surrenders and who dies in Christ's name looses their ego. And the person without ego is a tremendously powerful force and not somebody whom you will easily beat on.

So what I think this film does is recognize that there are cultural inequities regarding gender in many or maybe all Islamic countries as compared to our own and that to address them the film takes a wrong turn. It attacks the very religion that stands as a buffer to even greater cultural gender inequalities. It attacks what is holy instead of what is corrupt. There are gender issues in Muslim countries but there isn't pornography, prostitution and sexual and other forms of sexual exploitation ramped throughout the culture. I think it would have been better perhaps if the film maker had been more critical at home.

At any rate the film is in gross contrast to what I see as the meaning of Islam. But I think you should fight misunderstanding with understanding rather than death.

VERY, VERY surprising to find the above words from a non-Muslim. Thanks.

 

[Moonbeam]

The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

Islam is the religion of all Prophets, Adam to Muhammad. Children are not born out of any sin, original, inherited or derived. They are born on the religion of their nature, i.e., Islam.

I believe this is the deeper truth.

My religion is dying to all I was taught.

It is difficult to forgive all the hurt.

 

[ChrisIsBored]

Originally posted by: Sultan

That is disgusting and sickening. And I for one find it extremely offensive to find Quranic verses on a naked woman!

I'm asking out of ignorance, so don't think i'm threatening you; but why is it offensive to have those verses written on her body?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: alchemize
Don't you dare pull this link off if someone "is offended". Screw em. thanks, I'll watch this later. I want to see what Islamists are willing to commit murder for.

Another quality/Compassionate Christian Voice?

I would say my viewpoint is quite liberal. Only the tinfoil liberal blinders you wear can turn day into night.

 

[ChrisIsBored]

Okay can anyone answer why the verses are offensive since they're written on a female body?

 

[imported_KirbsAw]

Thanks for posting this.

I'm a liberal, and i see nothing wrong with this movie, and I am sickened that the filmmaker was murdered over this. Its your right to be offended, but I am a strong believer in free speech and if you're offended then don't watch it.

 

[imported_KirbsAw]

Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored
Okay can anyone answer why the verses are offensive since they're written on a female body?

Because religions like to demonize nudity. I dont see any reason to be offended by the human body.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Most of her commentary is not representative of Islam.

What a coincidence. I suspect that most of your commentary is not representative of Islam, too.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored

Originally posted by: Sultan

That is disgusting and sickening. And I for one find it extremely offensive to find Quranic verses on a naked woman!

I'm asking out of ignorance, so don't think i'm threatening you; but why is it offensive to have those verses written on her body?

Mixing pornography with a religion, any religion is non-offensive to you?

 

[ChrisIsBored]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored

Originally posted by: Sultan

That is disgusting and sickening. And I for one find it extremely offensive to find Quranic verses on a naked woman!

I'm asking out of ignorance, so don't think i'm threatening you; but why is it offensive to have those verses written on her body?

Mixing pornography with a religion, any religion is non-offensive to you?

I wouldn't consider a persons body pornography when it's not being portrayed in a sexual manner. Is this the sole reason you find the movie offensive?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Thanks, interesting movie.

I'm a liberal, and i see nothing wrong with this movie, and I am sickened that the filmmaker was murdered over this. Its your right to be offended, but I am a strong believer in free speech and if you're offended then don't watch it.

Yeah, it's disgusting that the filmmaker was murdered over this film. Even the writer, who is a government official that I believe is an 'ex-Muslim', has round the clock bodyguards for her own protection. Too bad that there seems to be a good number of fanatics that cannot tolerate anything says...pretty similar to abortion bombers and the like.

 

[imported_KirbsAw]

Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored

Originally posted by: Sultan

That is disgusting and sickening. And I for one find it extremely offensive to find Quranic verses on a naked woman!

I'm asking out of ignorance, so don't think i'm threatening you; but why is it offensive to have those verses written on her body?

Mixing pornography with a religion, any religion is non-offensive to you?

I wouldn't consider a persons body pornography when it's not being portrayed in a sexual manner. Is this the sole reason you find the movie offensive?

por·nog·ra·phy -
Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.

Non sexual nudity is not pornography.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: KirbsAw

Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: ChrisIsBored

Originally posted by: Sultan

That is disgusting and sickening. And I for one find it extremely offensive to find Quranic verses on a naked woman!

I'm asking out of ignorance, so don't think i'm threatening you; but why is it offensive to have those verses written on her body?

Mixing pornography with a religion, any religion is non-offensive to you?

I wouldn't consider a persons body pornography when it's not being portrayed in a sexual manner. Is this the sole reason you find the movie offensive?

por·nog·ra·phy -
Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.

Non sexual nudity is not pornography.

Thank you for providing the definition of pornography. If you really do not find it offensive to watch a woman naked, as an object, that too with religious scripture over her body, I cannot comment, I just differ. Morally speaking, a woman or a man naked is offensive based on any religious doctrines and social norms.

And yes, that is the sole reason I find the movie offensive. Most of the complaints that were in the commentary were social and cultural issues, not religious issues. Some of the complaints are even more ridiculous, what does rape by an uncle have to do with a religion? Additionally, the complaint bemoan the fact that the in spite of following religion to the dot, the person's life is miserable. As I said above, being a good follower of religion does not gaurantee a blissful life in this world. If that was the case, everyone would be a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew, whichever religion provides the blissful life.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Morally speaking, a woman or a man naked is offensive based on any religious doctrines and social norms.

No it isn't.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Morally speaking, a woman or a man naked is offensive based on any religious doctrines and social norms.

No it isn't.

Since I do not know your religion, I am going to assume your social norms up in the north in Canada are to roam around naked?

 

[ChrisIsBored]

Originally posted by: Sultan
Thank you for providing the definition of pornography. If you really do not find it offensive to watch a woman naked, as an object, that too with religious scripture over her body, I cannot comment, I just differ. Morally speaking, a woman or a man naked is offensive based on any religious doctrines and social norms.

And yes, that is the sole reason I find the movie offensive. Most of the complaints that were in the commentary were social and cultural issues, not religious issues. Some of the complaints are even more ridiculous, what does rape by an uncle have to do with a religion? Additionally, the complaint bemoan the fact that the in spite of following religion to the dot, the person's life is miserable. As I said above, being a good follower of religion does not gaurantee a blissful life in this world. If that was the case, everyone would be a Muslim or a Christian or a Jew, whichever religion provides the blissful life.

Point taken, I can respect your disapproval of the video on that aspect of it. Had she been covered, and social issues aside.. do you believe certain aspects of what was stated in the story truthfully represent Muslin belief or culture? And do you think this is representative of a proper or devout Muslim? I'm speaking in particular to forced marriages, etc..

Again, i'm not trying to be contentious with you, but for the sake of enlightening my own ignorance of Islam I wish to learn more.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Morally speaking, a woman or a man naked is offensive based on any religious doctrines and social norms.

No it isn't.

Since I do not know your religion, I am going to assume your social norms up in the north in Canada are to roam around naked?

Lots of countries have social norms where nudity is fine. Nudity in the US and Canada is fine depending on the situation as well. Artful nudity is not morally disgusting by any means.

In addition, nudity is not morally offensive in every religion or every religious set of beliefs that every person believes in.

The thing is that you're just a prude. Don't drag the rest of us down with you.