The whole foreclosure fiasco and a possible moratorium.

[werepossum]

Yeah, Grayson has a set of nuts alright. His brain is full of them. The guy is a hyperbole wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a fucking freak. He's trying to defend his seat, so yeah, he'll write that letter and make a big deal out of a single anecdote and failure to recognize reality.

LOL! Grayson has nothing but nuts. He is seriously short of marbles though.

 

[piasabird]

Her foreclosure was stopped on a technicality. I think after not paying the morgage payment for 2 years, a person should expect to get kicked out of their house.

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estat...ational-foreclosure-freeze?mod=realestate-buy

Nicolle Bradbury bought this house seven years ago for $75,000, a major step up from the trailer she had been living in with her family. But she lost her job and the $474 monthly mortgage payment became difficult, then impossible.

I would think she also owes taxes and is not paying any insurance either. I think the real house payment with the extras might be about $700 a month or so. A lot of banks make you pay that and put it in Escrow as part of the loan agreement.

I have seen a few of these cases and the bank is probably piling on late payment fees for every month the morgage is not paid. She probably owes more now than when she started. If she could not pay the insurance the bank probably insured the property themselves and is owed back that money. She would have been better off moving back to the trailer.

 

[GTKeeper]

I think LK and some others are missinformed here. To assume that fraud was at less than 1% is a pipe dream. Recent documents relased by subpoena show that banks may have securitized as much as 28% of MBSes that did not meet their own underwriting standards. I think the whole foreclosure situation is putting light on a bigger question.... And the question is, if the above is the case, what kind of pottential legal issues do the banks face from the investors who bought these instrumens. Josh Rosner talked about this recently on spitzers new show.

Also, Bill Black who was a key prosecutor during the S&L crisis has cited numerous times that the FBI has reports on it's books of a high percentage of fraud at these banks when dealing with securitization.

 

[Darwin333]

I think LK and some others are missinformed here. To assume that fraud was at less than 1% is a pipe dream. Recent documents relased by subpoena show that banks may have securitized as much as 28% of MBSes that did not meet their own underwriting standards. I think the whole foreclosure situation is putting light on a bigger question.... And the question is, if the above is the case, what kind of pottential legal issues do the banks face from the investors who bought these instrumens. Josh Rosner talked about this recently on spitzers new show.

Also, Bill Black who was a key prosecutor during the S&L crisis has cited numerous times that the FBI has reports on it's books of a high percentage of fraud at these banks when dealing with securitization.

That is called misrepresenting what your are selling, in this case a financial instrument. Us normal folk get charged with fraud for doing that but its just a "technicality" when the banksters do it.

From what I understand, if the required docs were not included in the MBS the holder can force the originator to purchase it back. Since the banks know exactly whats in those boxes of shit (because they filled the box with the shit) that is the last thing they want. IMO, that is why they tried to sneak that bill through Congress and that is the real threat if this blows up. What sweet irony that would be, if they had to buy all the garbage they sold back at face value.

 

[Darwin333]

He's trying to defend his seat, so yeah, he'll write that letter and make a big deal out of a single anecdote and failure to recognize reality.

Reality is that ALL 50 state AGs have filed suit in one way or another, why would they do that because of a single anecdote?

Just out of curiosity, did you miss the part that said, and I quote "this employee testifies under oath that it was routine for that office to falsify documents regarding military records, in order to move foreclosure cases along more quickly"?

That is sworn testimony, not some anecdotal story, and if he lied under oath I would expect him to be charged with perjury wouldn't you? Somehow I doubt that he perjured himself though, what does he stand to gain from basically admitting that he committed numerous crimes including falsifying military documents if it is a lie?

Rather funny how so many more "anecdotal" isolated cases keep popping up by the day as the paperwork is actually looked at isn't it?

You willing to back that "less than 1%" statement up with any of your own cash? I would be happy to place a nice friendly wager in an online escrow while this shit unravels.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well, fraud on a massive scale isn't something the perps will abandon easily, not when they've been getting away with it from the very beginning, like this-

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/how-wall-street-hid-its-mortgage-mess/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/b...rgenson%20financial crisis clayton&st=cse

Completely sordid, from beginning to end.

 

[dawp]

thought I'd add this, though maybe it should be it's own thread:

http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/07/david-j-stern-djsp-foreclosure-fannie-freddie

facinating read on one of the major players in this mess.

 

[spacejamz]

So what do the 'homeowners' (how many of them are still actually living in these homes that are being foreclosed anyway??) hope to accomplish?

These aren't cases where they haven't paid for 90 or 120 days (3 or 4 months) and are getting kicked out to the curb...Are they going to magically come up with the money now to make their payments plus all of the late fees, etc or are they wanting the bank to modify the loans to some ridiculous level that they 'think' they can afford, property appraised values be damned?

 

[dawp]

So what do the 'homeowners' (how many of them are still actually living in these homes that are being foreclosed anyway??) hope to accomplish?

These aren't cases where they haven't paid for 90 or 120 days (3 or 4 months) and are getting kicked out to the curb...Are they going to magically come up with the money now to make their payments plus all of the late fees, etc or are they wanting the bank to modify the loans to some ridiculous level that they 'think' they can afford, property appraised values be damned?

Read the Mother Jones article. that is one operation that was falsifying forms, lying to judges, and committing fraud on a major scale. Quite a few were not even behind on their payment and had their homes foreclosed on. They were just trying to take advantage of the opportunity to refinance at a more affordable rate. And they weren't the only company doing this, just one of the largest.

 

[spacejamz]

Read the Mother Jones article. that is one operation that was falsifying forms, lying to judges, and committing fraud on a major scale. Quite a few were not even behind on their payment and had their homes foreclosed on. They were just trying to take advantage of the opportunity to refinance at a more affordable rate. And they weren't the only company doing this, just one of the largest.

Your article implicates a law firm, not the mortgage companies, of committing fraud which is a totally separate issue than what this thread is about...

from your article:

these firms undermine efforts by government and the mortgage industry to put struggling homeowners back on track at a time of record foreclosures.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

there wont be a moritorium, but they should have more loan modifications, after all they had bank bailouts

 

[werepossum]

Fox & Friends had a woman on whose house is in foreclosure, she has nine kids and another on the way. She hasn't made a house payment in eight months. Her reason? Says she wants to make sure her mortgage company is legally the owner of her house before she pays them anything. (That must be harder than it sounds.) Her husband is deployed military, and while I support a program to save the homes of military families who incur considerably more expenses when on combat deployment, dang, ten kids? When you have nine kids and choose to make another while not paying your mortgage, you've lost my sympathy.

They also had Cathleen Willy, who is also losing her house (was due to be auctioned today but the bank placed a thirty day hold to "explore other options" when they learned she was to be on the news.) And yes, she still looks damned fine.

 

[her209]

You shouldn't be allowed to stop paying your mortgage because you think you don't have to for whatever reason. At the same time, you should be able to get an accurate accounting of the mortgage and/or fees and where its all going.

 

[spacejamz]

You should be allowed to stop paying your mortgage because you think you don't have to for whatever reason.

Who said you can't?? The only thing is that you get kicked out of the house and it goes back to the mortgage company...

Is my sarcasm meter broken or something???

At the same time, you should be able to get an accurate accounting of the mortgage and/or fees and where its all going.

Has anyone claimed they can't get this information?

 

[dawp]

Your article implicates a law firm, not the mortgage companies, of committing fraud which is a totally separate issue than what this thread is about...

from your article:

these firms undermine efforts by government and the mortgage industry to put struggling homeowners back on track at a time of record foreclosures.

the mortgage companies were looking the other way and not watching what these companies were doing on their behalf, so they are implicated in all this too. they were processing as many foreclosures as they could. they are one of the major reasons why the moratorium is even being discussed in the first place.

 

[her209]

Who said you can't?? The only thing is that you get kicked out of the house and it goes back to the mortgage company...

Is my sarcasm meter broken or something???

Oops... that should read "shouldn't".

 

[spacejamz]

the mortgage companies were looking the other way and not watching what these companies were doing on their behalf, so they are implicated in all this too. they were processing as many foreclosures as they could. they are one of the major reasons why the moratorium is even being discussed in the first place.

So what should happen to these people who cannot make their payments and probably owe more than the house is worth? Especially the ones who have been evicted and havent made a payment in over a year....

And how many of them are actually making real sacrifices (like no cable TV or high speed internet, using a basic go phone instead of smart phone with a data plan and unlimited texting, driving/leasing a $20K+ car less than 3 years old, etc) in order to try and make their house payment?

 

[Fern]

From one of the articles:

Instead, they got vague, boilerplate language about ‘underwriting,’ and that there were ‘substantial exceptions,’

The investors in these securities were warned, I have no sympathy.

OTOH, the credit agencies need to be fvcked up big time for their lax and dishonest crap. They clearly didn't perform their job, instead just going along for the (profit) ride.

And lawyers who engage in misconduct should be fully prosecuted. (Won't hold my breath as it's just lawyers 'policing' other lawyers; good luck with that.)

Fern

 

[werepossum]

Oops... that should read "shouldn't".

Oddly enough, I read your post as intended rather than as actually written.

 

[Fern]

This level of laxity is shocking.

I can only guess it ocurred because the 'money faucet' was wide freaking open and nobody wanted to stop the flow.

Fern

 

[Darwin333]

So what do the 'homeowners' (how many of them are still actually living in these homes that are being foreclosed anyway??) hope to accomplish?

Who cares?

Should the banks not be forced to follow black letter law in foreclosure, or any of situation for that matter? That is the question.

Furthermore, as the person being foreclosed on, wouldn't YOU want the bank to be able to prove they actually own the property or have interest in it that legally allows them to foreclose? Or would you just hand the keys to any asshole attorney with a stack of papers?

How about if you purchased some of those MBS's way back in their prime? After the pounding you have taken if you found out the MBS might have been misrepresented and therefore fraudulent and you could legally make the bank repurchase it from you at full price, would you? Or would you just say that you got scammed fair and square and eat the losses?

Lastly, if the banks do not care about the legally protected due process of its customers, why should they care about the due process of the bank? Turnabout is fairplay is it not?

 

[dawp]

So what should happen to these people who cannot make their payments and probably owe more than the house is worth? Especially the ones who have been evicted and havent made a payment in over a year....

And how many of them are actually making real sacrifices (like no cable TV or high speed internet, using a basic go phone instead of smart phone with a data plan and unlimited texting, driving/leasing a $20K+ car less than 3 years old, etc) in order to try and make their house payment?

There should be a moratorium on forecloses until this whole mess can be straighten out. There was a story a while back about a homeowner who paid cash whose home was put into foreclosure buy one of these companies. Until all the paperwork can be verified as legitimate no foreclosure should proceed.

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/10/04/daily48.html

 

[Darwin333]

Who said you can't?? The only thing is that you get kicked out of the house and it goes back to the mortgage company...

Is my sarcasm meter broken or something???

Which mortgage company or entity actually owns it? Once you prove that they are free to foreclose.

Has anyone claimed they can't get this information?

Metric shit tons of sworn affidavits said the information was included in the docs when it didn't. In most cases they still haven't been able to produce it and now we are getting allegations that the same loan was sold multiple times which if true would be even more blatant fraud.

 

[Paratus]

I would definatley think REALLY hard about buying any of these forclosed houses. If due to these "technical difficulties" and "lax standards" there is any doubt as to who owns the property you could end up buying realestate and lose it to the "real" owner.

I'd also think twice about investing in any bank with hundreds of miilions of dollars worth of properties whose ownership maybe legally questionable to tune of billions in legal liabilities.

If you're a righty you need to stop raging about the individual who gets to stay in a house a few extra months and realize anny investment you have related to mortgages is about to take another bath because of a lack of due-dillegence.

 

[spacejamz]

Who cares?

Should the banks not be forced to follow black letter law in foreclosure, or any of situation for that matter? That is the question.

Furthermore, as the person being foreclosed on, wouldn't YOU want the bank to be able to prove they actually own the property or have interest in it that legally allows them to foreclose? Or would you just hand the keys to any asshole attorney with a stack of papers?

How about if you purchased some of those MBS's way back in their prime? After the pounding you have taken if you found out the MBS might have been misrepresented and therefore fraudulent and you could legally make the bank repurchase it from you at full price, would you? Or would you just say that you got scammed fair and square and eat the losses?

Lastly, if the banks do not care about the legally protected due process of its customers, why should they care about the due process of the bank? Turnabout is fairplay is it not?

I give up....personal accountability for paying one's debts has gone completely out the window it appears...

The bottom line is that these people are not paying their mortgages and are now trying to exploit an error with the system to somehow magically keep the house even though they cannot afford to pay for it and HAVE NOT MADE A MORTGAGE PAYMENT for a LONG period of time.

So what happens when issue is fixed? When all of the documents get signed and reviewed? Will these same people now be able to pay back what they owe? I seriously doubt it...