Discussion The VL rifle and Ammo.

[whm1974]

So I do have some desire to get into airguning and so I have been reading up on the subject. And rediscovered the Daisy VL Rifle and Ammo.

Daisy V/L - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Has anyone owned one of these? Damn shame that that other Companies didn't take this over from Daisy after the ATF declared this to a firearm. I wonder if there would be a market for this caseless rifle and ammo today?

When I first read about the Daisy VL rifle and ammo, I thought the tube holder was the ammo. But now I have been corrected and actual "cartridge" is a lot shorter then I was thinking.

This Rifle will be fine as kids first rifle to learn shooting, but maybe a new repeater could be designed using rotary magazines? Maybe even a pistol as well?

 

[whm1974]

No one wants one of these rare rifles and there ammo?

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

No one wants one of these rare rifles and there ammo?

No. It's that simple, nobody wants one. Once they were declared a firearm the market disappeared because they didn't do anything better than a normal .22 rifle. That's why Daisy didn't/couldn't sell the tech or patents once they decided they didn't want to manufacture real guns. The only interest was as a gun that skirted gun laws. Without that what's the point?

 

[whm1974]

No. It's that simple, nobody wants one. Once they were declared a firearm the market disappeared because they didn't do anything better than a normal .22 rifle. That's why Daisy didn't/couldn't sell the tech or patents once they decided they didn't want to manufacture real guns. The only interest was as a gun that skirted gun laws. Without that what's the point?

Well both ammo and rifle had to be damn simply to manufacture right? Since this was the first caseless ammo and rifle to be sold commercially with some success, it should offer something to collectors at least.

I would own one just for novelty and that it is a historical firearm.

 

[whm1974]

After watching this video:

I'm wondering how hard it would be to make the ammo myself if I own a Daisy VL Rifle? I could start out with these heavy airgun pellets at first unless someone knows a source where I can get proper .22 cal bullets.

Air Gun Pellets | Pellet Gun Ammo | For Sale | Pyramyd AIR

Shop for pellets for pellet guns, including .177 pellets, .22 pellets up to .50+ caliber of from top brands. Offer: 4th pellet tin is free on at Pyramyd!

www.pyramydair.com

 

[whm1974]

So so more info on caseless ammo from forgotten Weapons:

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Caseless-Ammunition-Small-Arms.pdf

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

Well both ammo and rifle had to be damn simply to manufacture right?

Not necessarily right at all. What hidden expenses and liabilities are there in the manufacture and distribution of case-less ammo? Do you know what has to be done to make it safe? It failed for a reason. Heck, maybe it failed for 100 reasons. It didn't catch on and other manufacturers were not interested in buying the concept and bringing it to market. Why not? If it was really better than normal ammo, cheaper or easier it would probably have become something other than a novelty.

I would own one just for novelty and that it is a historical firearm.

If you want something just because it was a piece of junk that failed in the marketplace and is now a novelty, start your collection with Google Glass, an Apple Newton and a Segway.

 

[whm1974]

Not necessarily right at all. What hidden expenses and liabilities are there in the manufacture and distribution of case-less ammo? Do you know what has to be done to make it safe? It failed for a reason. Heck, maybe it failed for 100 reasons. It didn't catch on and other manufacturers were not interested in buying the concept and bringing it to market. Why not? If it was really better than normal ammo, cheaper or easier it would probably have become something other than a novelty.



If you want something just because it was a piece of junk that failed in the marketplace and is now a novelty, start your collection with Google Glass, an Apple Newton and a Segway.

From what I read about this rifle and its ammo, it certainly was not junk.

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

From what I read about this rifle and its ammo, it certainly was not junk.

After an exhaustive search of 3 full seconds....

Daisy-Heddon V/L Rifle – The Caseless Ammo .22

Rock Island Auction Company

www.rockislandauction.com

Potential Problems

Maybe the ATF isn’t solely to blame for the death of the VL rifle. After all, if Daisy believed in the gun so much, why didn’t they simply acquire a firearms manufacturer’s license and continue production? The primary reason is likely the same culprit driving most business decisions: money. As mentioned earlier, the VL was not exactly competitively priced in the market. Like most new technology, it would take time for the price to come down. Also, once production ramped up, they could depend on economy of scale to push prices lower still. Daisy didn’t have time and sales of the VL proved to be sluggish at best. Even with the heralded new technology, Daisy gave the VL the same plastic stock it gave most of its products, giving the gun a chintzy, cheap feel.


Then there were all the other problems that other caseless ammunition pioneers have had to tackle: how to extract a misfire, cooking-off rounds, and maintaining the necessary seals of the weapon. Daisy also had the additional issue of the propellant being fragile enough to crumble off using only a fingernail.

 

[Paladin3]

From what I read about this rifle and its ammo, it certainly was not junk.

Nope, not junk, it's just that it didn't do anything better than current cased ammo or air guns do. If you are trying to be quiet just use an air gun or a .22 short. If you have to shoot into the air, say to hunt squirrels in a tree, use a high powered air gun.

The real attraction was that it wasn't classified as a firearm and circumvented gun laws. Once those laws were changed and that was gone so was the interest. And we really don't want folks who have lost their 2A rights legally owning a gun because it skirts the law on a technicality.