The Vietnam War

My history class at the U of M (titled 20th Century American Wars as Social and Political Experiences) is currently covering the Vietnam War. On Thursday, the lecture featured a slide show of the most influential images from the war and the events surrounding it. There were three images in the slide show. They were:

Murder of a VietCong by Saigon Police Chief
Kim Phuc
Kent State

I'm pretty sure that most everyone in the 300-person class was strongly affected by these images. I didn't know much about the war before this class, but I now find it horrible that people are comparing our current war in Iraq to the Vietnam situation. Vietnam is a travesty in our American history, and I don't think this nation is capable of something like it ever again. It's horribly sad, and definitely tragic, but I feel we've learned from our mistakes in the Far East.

It's so sad.

 

[Kev]

whats up with that 3rd one?

 

We are doomed because history always repeats itself, didn't you know that ?

 

[PanzerIV]

Yes, Vietnam was a horrible war in which we never should have been involved in. It's definitely shaped our foreign policy ever since and attitude towards getting mired in future long term conflicts.

 

Originally posted by: Kev
whats up with that 3rd one?

The Ohio National Guard fired on a group of student protesters, killing four. Kent State is viewed as the lowest point of the entire Vietnam Conflict by many, since it resulted in the deaths of four people who were simply speaking out against the U.S. policy at the time. Many feel that the National Guard had no reason to fire on the students.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: Roger
We are doomed because history always repeats itself, didn't you know that ?

I saw that stuff when it was prime time

Ausm

 

[Nyical]

Originally posted by: Roger
We are doomed because history always repeats itself, didn't you know that ?

So true, Politics tied the hands of our fighting forces in Vietnam and now its doing the same thing in Iraq.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Kev
whats up with that 3rd one?

You really don't know what happened at Kent State?

Timeline of events

 

[Brutuskend]

Ever since WWII our country has made it a habit of sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong or isn't wanted.

Viet Nam will NOT be the last.

IMO if you follow the $$$ you will see why we get involved in things like this. In Nam it was about rubber, Iraq oil.

 

[TheAudit]

Originally posted by: Nyical

Originally posted by: Roger
We are doomed because history always repeats itself, didn't you know that ?

So true, Politics tied the hands of our fighting forces in Vietnam and now its doing the same thing in Iraq.

I don't think that's the case now. We are occupying their country. Any fool with a gun can shoot an American soldier over there or make a roadside bomb. What could they do differently now besides send in more soldiers (which they should)?

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

jumpr, I was 18 in 1966. Images every night in color on the TV. It was horrifying and numbing at the same time. I was so glad not to be drafted, the only benefit being almost blind in my left eye has given me.

The female in the second photo survived and has been interviewed, it was on PBS about a couple of years ago.....God help us


EDIT: jumpr, Her name and the interview should not be too hard to locate. She spoke as a Buddhist would, with no anger. When I viewed it I felt a shame that she did not cause,
but my country did. Good luck in your studies...

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: jumpr
I didn't know much about the war before this class, but I now find it horrible that people are comparing our current war in Iraq to the Vietnam situation...

Yeah, you didn't know much about Vietnam, and you didn't realize all the horrible stuff that happened. And right now you don't know much about what's gone in in Iraq. In 25 years your kids will take a history class about it and say "OMG, how could we have done these things!" The same people that were on these forums saying "Damn stinking hippies, get the hell out of my country!" about the protesters during the Iraq war were the same ones who thought it was OK to shoot protesters at kent State. It's really not much different than Vietnam in most ways.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: jumpr
I didn't know much about the war before this class, but I now find it horrible that people are comparing our current war in Iraq to the Vietnam situation...

Yeah, you didn't know much about Vietnam, and you didn't realize all the horrible stuff that happened. And right now you don't know much about what's gone in in Iraq. In 25 years your kids will take a history class about it and say "OMG, how could we have done these things!" The same people that were on these forums saying "Damn stinking hippies, get the hell out of my country!" about the protesters during the Iraq war were the same ones who thought it was OK to shoot protesters at kent State. It's really not much different than Vietnam in most ways.

Actually, my dad still believes they should have shot a half-dozen more.

 

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: jumpr
I didn't know much about the war before this class, but I now find it horrible that people are comparing our current war in Iraq to the Vietnam situation...

The same people that were on these forums saying "Damn stinking hippies, get the hell out of my country!" about the protesters during the Iraq war were the same ones who thought it was OK to shoot protesters at kent State. It's really not much different than Vietnam in most ways.

I honestly don't think anyone thought it was okay to shoot protesters at KSU. As my teacher put it, National Guard troops are notoriously and historically undertrained, and they simply got caught up in the moment and scared. There were no Nixon-lovers on the news that night saying "Good, I'm glad those damn hippies got shot."

No one liked the civilian casualties. That's a fact. And no one likes them now. But to compare civilian casualties in Iraq with civilian casualties in Khe Sahn and My Lai and Kent, OH is just ignorant, in my opinion.

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: jumpr
My history class at the U of M (titled 20th Century American Wars as Social and Political Experiences) is currently covering the Vietnam War. On Thursday, the lecture featured a slide show of the most influential images from the war and the events surrounding it. There were three images in the slide show. They were:

Murder of a VietCong by Saigon Police Chief
Kim Phuc
Kent State

I'm pretty sure that most everyone in the 300-person class was strongly affected by these images. I didn't know much about the war before this class, but I now find it horrible that people are comparing our current war in Iraq to the Vietnam situation. Vietnam is a travesty in our American history, and I don't think this nation is capable of something like it ever again. It's horribly sad, and definitely tragic, but I feel we've learned from our mistakes in the Far East.

It's so sad.

You don't think it can ever happen again? And you are in college? Iraq, hello?

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend
Ever since WWII our country has made it a habit of sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong or isn't wanted.

Viet Nam will NOT be the last.

IMO if you follow the $$$ you will see why we get involved in things like this. In Nam it was about rubber, Iraq oil.

I agree, however, look at the death count. The second Iraq starts to even compare to the number of people who died during the Vietnam conflict, then I will be really pissed off.

 

[Kenazo]

If Iraq goes much longer, the same stories of atrocities will come out... The US soldiers there will get more and more desperate, and the Iraqi's don't seem to care for America anyway (The great Satan)

 

[illusion88]

.

 

[DT4K]

Wrong forum first of all.
But I guess I'll contribute to the flamefest.

Anyone who thinks the Vietnam war was about rubber or who thinks Iraq is in anyway similar to Vietnam is on crack.
Vietnam was about stopping the spread of communism.
Regardless of whether the motives were good or bad and whether there was any truth to the whole domino theory, saying it was for economic purposes is just plain stupid.
The US along with the French most notably and many other capitalist western countries viewed the spread of communism as a very real and serious threat to world security. While there was a great deal of paranoia about communism, the communist regime in the U.S.S.R. certainly was a very real threat until we won the cold war. The theory was that if we allowed the U.S.S.R. and China to succeed in supporting a communist government in North Vietnam, communism would spread to other surrounding countries and be on it's way to world domination. This certainly did not turn out to be true since there was no massive spread of communism after we pulled out of Vietnam. But this was the reason we were there, not to get some rubber.

How can you compare a situation where we rolled in and took control of an entire country in the course of 3 weeks, taking a total of less than 1000 casualties, to a situation where we were involved in guerilla warfare for years, with total U.S. casualties of 65000 and countless hundreds of thousands of vietnamese casualties, both North and South.

The majority of Vietnamese did NOT want us there. One of the reasons we lost is because no matter how many VC we killed, there were always plenty more people willing to step in and fight for their country. They had enough love for Ho Chi Minh, enough hate for us, and enough fear of losing their homeland to keep fighting no matter what the cost.
How is this anything like Iraq?
How many average citizens in Iraq volunteered to keep fighting for Saddam?
How many Iraqi soldiers surrendered?
Do you honestly think we would have had it so easy in Iraq if the people really supported Saddam and thought we were there to take over their country for our own purposes?

Iraq is nothing like Vietnam. It is a completely and totally different situation and will never be viewed in history with the same negative connotations as Vietnam.

By the way, my dad was one of the peace protesters who cut the fire hoses at the Kent State riots.

 

[LoverBoyJ]

Originally posted by: ausm

Originally posted by: Roger
We are doomed because history always repeats itself, didn't you know that ?

I saw that stuff when it was prime time
Ausm

more scarier is using nukes (ie. . japan), to be repeated......

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: jumpr
I didn't know much about the war before this class, but I now find it horrible that people are comparing our current war in Iraq to the Vietnam situation...

The same people that were on these forums saying "Damn stinking hippies, get the hell out of my country!" about the protesters during the Iraq war were the same ones who thought it was OK to shoot protesters at kent State. It's really not much different than Vietnam in most ways.

I honestly don't think anyone thought it was okay to shoot protesters at KSU. As my teacher put it, National Guard troops are notoriously and historically undertrained, and they simply got caught up in the moment and scared. There were no Nixon-lovers on the news that night saying "Good, I'm glad those damn hippies got shot."

No one liked the civilian casualties. That's a fact. And no one likes them now. But to compare civilian casualties in Iraq with civilian casualties in Khe Sahn and My Lai and Kent, OH is just ignorant, in my opinion.

What civilian casualties were there during the siege of Khe Sahn?

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: jumpr
I didn't know much about the war before this class, but I now find it horrible that people are comparing our current war in Iraq to the Vietnam situation...

The same people that were on these forums saying "Damn stinking hippies, get the hell out of my country!" about the protesters during the Iraq war were the same ones who thought it was OK to shoot protesters at kent State. It's really not much different than Vietnam in most ways.

I honestly don't think anyone thought it was okay to shoot protesters at KSU. As my teacher put it, National Guard troops are notoriously and historically undertrained, and they simply got caught up in the moment and scared. There were no Nixon-lovers on the news that night saying "Good, I'm glad those damn hippies got shot."

No one liked the civilian casualties. That's a fact. And no one likes them now. But to compare civilian casualties in Iraq with civilian casualties in Khe Sahn and My Lai and Kent, OH is just ignorant, in my opinion.

What civilian casualties were there during the siege of Khe Sahn?

I was wondering about that myself.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Methinks jumpr is getting a slanted education on the Viet Nam War.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Methinks jumpr is getting a slanted education on the Viet Nam War.

Can't expect otherwise when chances are the people teaching him about it probably protested it originally.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Methinks jumpr is getting a slanted education on the Viet Nam War.

I agree that the Vietnam war was a very dark time in our history and not something to be proud of as Americans.

But it would definitely be hard to get an objective education on the war when at least 90% of college professors are liberals.