The US patent system is completely broken

[Doboji]

Apple wins against HTC for a patent that essentially says a computer program that searches a computers storage for recognizable data structures and performs automatic actions based on the structure type.

Ridiculous fucking ridiculous!

 

[akugami]

You are just now realizing the patent system is broken beyond repair?

Amazon has a one-click patent. I could probably dig through numerous obvious patents or patents with prior art but that would be depressing.

At least you're not ranting and raving about hating Apple (example, Dailytech). Apple played the game by the rules. Are the rules flawed? Yeah. But we all remember RIM being bent over and screwed a couple years back. Same thing.

Apple has been on the receiving end of these patent disputes. So while I'm sure they're ecstatic with the current ruling, they're probably not happy with the way the patent system works. Even MS, who has used patents like a club, has publicly called for patent reforms.

And yes, those Apple patents did seem bogus but we've seen worse pass a patent review...

 

[gsaldivar]

This must be more of that change we can believe in.

 

[Mopetar]

This might explain why HTC decided to buy the S3 patents, a few of which Apple were found to be infringing on in a recent dispute. If neither side can get the other side's patents invalidated, they'll probably end up doing some kind of cross-licensing deal.

 

[tonygeor]

yep, new patent system pretty please

 

[Aikouka]

Apple wins against HTC for a patent that essentially says a computer program that searches a computers storage for recognizable data structures and performs automatic actions based on the structure type.

Ridiculous fucking ridiculous!

But you know that this is for things like context-based links, right? Kind of like how iOS sees 555-555-5555 in an e-mail and automatically creates a link that upon pressing it, it will ask if you wish to call that number. It's actually far more of an originally not-so-standard feature than you may initially suspect.

 

[gsaldivar]

But you know that this is for things like context-based links, right? Kind of like how iOS sees 555-555-5555 in an e-mail and automatically creates a link that upon pressing it, it will ask if you wish to call that number. It's actually far more of an originally not-so-standard feature than you may initially suspect.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember my ancient Palm being able to do that. Not WebOS, but the older PalmOS that ran on Treo devices...

Edit: Looks like there were several ways to do this on PalmOS:

"...any phone number, email or web address you write is recognised and acted upon when its tapped - which is great for reminders to make phone calls, or make a last minute bid on that ebay auction!..."

http://electricpocket.com/bugme-palm/

http://www.ranosoft.net/treo/top-selec-text/

I'm sure there are several other examples. Many of these little utilities were around before the iPhone even existed...

 

[Mopetar]

Actually, the patent is fairly old (the patents in question were filed in 1994 and 1996), so it predates a lot of the supposed prior art that people have posted here.

The funny part, however, is that the Newton did some similar things before the patent was filed, so it may actually qualify as prior art in this case. This is second hand from a post on Slashdot, so I would take it with a minor grain of salt depending on when these features were added to the Newton.

Seriously though. The amount of uninformed idiocy in this thread trumps the stupidity of patent laws.

 

[Doboji]

But you know that this is for things like context-based links, right? Kind of like how iOS sees 555-555-5555 in an e-mail and automatically creates a link that upon pressing it, it will ask if you wish to call that number. It's actually far more of an originally not-so-standard feature than you may initially suspect.

I disagree it couldn't be more generic. Every connected interface we use in the modern world does this to one degree or another... From websites to Microsoft word recognizing an HTML link to this forum. It's not unique it's absolutely standard for the modern connected era.

 

[pm]

The "US Patent Act of 2011" AKA the "America Invents Act" passed last month in both the house and senate with the intent of improving the US patent system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_Invents_Act

Several of my co-workers (all engineers) had a meeting with our representative (Cory Gardner, Colorado 4th congressional district) about it. It was an interesting discussion because it's not at all as black and white as I had thought that it was. Patent law is a delicate balance between protecting the interests of startups vs. protecting the interests of large corporations (for example, against patent trolls).

As I have said previously, if you have strong feelings about the US patent system, post all you want on Anandtech, but also contact your senators and representative.

 

[Doboji]

Actually, the patent is fairly old (the patents in question were filed in 1994 and 1996), so it predates a lot of the supposed prior art that people have posted here.

The funny part, however, is that the Newton did some similar things before the patent was filed, so it may actually qualify as prior art in this case. This is second hand from a post on Slashdot, so I would take it with a minor grain of salt depending on when these features were added to the Newton.

Seriously though. The amount of uninformed idiocy in this thread trumps the stupidity of patent laws.

This thread isn't about who came up with the idea first... This thread is about the fact that this bullshit generic patent exists and is enforceable. It's like holding a patent for cut and paste... Garbage.

 

[Doboji]

The "US Patent Act of 2011" AKA the "America Invents Act" passed last month in both the house and senate with the intent of improving the US patent system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_Invents_Act

Several of my co-workers (all engineers) had a meeting with our representative (Cory Gardner, Colorado 4th congressional district) about it. It was an interesting discussion because it's not at all as black and white as I had thought that it was. Patent law is a delicate balance between protecting the interests of startups vs. protecting the interests of large corporations (for example, against patent trolls).

As I have said previously, if you have strong feelings about the US patent system, post all you want on Anandtech, but also contact your senators and representative.

You know what, you are absolutely correct... And I will be doing that. Looking up my rep now.

 

[Mopetar]

This thread isn't about who came up with the idea first... This thread is about the fact that this bullshit generic patent exists and is enforceable. It's like holding a patent for cut and paste... Garbage.

Be that as it may, someone decided to post some supposed prior art, which really wasn't prior.

Personally, I don't have a problem with software patents, but I believe they should be required to be significantly more specific in terms of implementation details and have a much shorter duration, perhaps about five years. In general, there are some problems with the patent system that should be fixed, but I don't think the baby should be thrown out with the bath water.

 

[Tom]

This thread isn't about who came up with the idea first... This thread is about the fact that this bullshit generic patent exists and is enforceable. It's like holding a patent for cut and paste... Garbage.

Since the patent isn't posted here, how do you know it's generic ?

In any case, you dont understand what a patent is. It's the ability to reap the benefits for innovation. For example, right click to cut and paste isn't generic; it's just such a good idea it seems completely natural. But that doesn't diminish the cleverness of whoever thought of it.

Anyways, our patent system is a national treasure that's a big part of our prosperity, we should be careful about changes.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

The "US Patent Act of 2011" AKA the "America Invents Act" passed last month in both the house and senate with the intent of improving the US patent system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_Invents_Act

<-------- Patent Attorney

To clarify your post, the house and senate each passed their own version of the bill. There is no telling whether they will be able to rectify the differences between the two and send a unified bill to the president. It is a strong indication, however, that we are closer to patent reforms now than we have been in a long time.

Also, it may interest you to know that the only "radical" change proposed in the patent reform acts that were passed in the conversion of the U.S. patent system to a first to file system (currently it is a first to invent system). At least one of the bills includes a provision for post grant review (similar to the opposition proceedings in Europe), but who knows if it will be in the final bill.

 

[alent1234]

reading the wiki article makes it seem worse than what we have now. it will favor the large companies and make life for start ups hard

 

[Doboji]

Since the patent isn't posted here, how do you know it's generic ?

In any case, you dont understand what a patent is. It's the ability to reap the benefits for innovation. For example, right click to cut and paste isn't generic; it's just such a good idea it seems completely natural. But that doesn't diminish the cleverness of whoever thought of it.

Anyways, our patent system is a national treasure that's a big part of our prosperity, we should be careful bout changes.

Google the patent yourself... its not hard. our education system is also a national treasure.. doesnt mean its not broken to shit.

 

[alent1234]

how is the education system broken? there are good schools and bad schools. buy a house in a good school district, problem solved.

 

[Doboji]

how is the education system broken? there are good schools and bad schools. buy a house in a good school district, problem solved.

*facepalm*

 

[alent1234]

i know people that live in good school districts. class sizes under 30 and more than one teacher per class along with all kinds of after school activities. this will cost you $15,000 or so in taxes depending on your home. up to $30,000 in some cases. all of it tax deductible depending on your AMT status. compare that to paying the same for a good private school. i'll take the property taxes and the good neighborhood

i actually just moved recently from one of the worst elementary school zoning in NYC to one of the best. the person that paid me a lot of money for my old place asked me why i moved and i told him i now live a few blocks from one of the best elementary schools in NYC. he said what's wrong with the "bad" school"? i didn't answer the question but it's right near government projects, it has been bad for decades, and other people told me to get out of dodge before my kids go there

 

[Doboji]

i know people that live in good school districts. class sizes under 30 and more than one teacher per class along with all kinds of after school activities. this will cost you $15,000 or so in taxes depending on your home. up to $30,000 in some cases. all of it tax deductible depending on your AMT status. compare that to paying the same for a good private school. i'll take the property taxes and the good neighborhood

i actually just moved recently from one of the worst elementary school zoning in NYC to one of the best. the person that paid me a lot of money for my old place asked me why i moved and i told him i now live a few blocks from one of the best elementary schools in NYC. he said what's wrong with the "bad" school"? i didn't answer the question but it's right near government projects, it has been bad for decades, and other people told me to get out of dodge before my kids go there

Saying that some schools in some school districts are ok does not make the US Public School system not broke as shit. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to get into a discussion about what that means... or whether it's fair... or whether it means you can be successful. I'm just pointing out that the shit is broke. And so is the patent system.

 

[alent1234]

back to the patent, i didn't read the entire thing but it's pretty old. filed back in the 1990's. back in those days memory management was high tech. before windows XP when the consumer versions were DOS based there were memory management programs that were supposed to make things faster. Windows 95 and protected memory and pre-emptive multitasking was a big deal.

apple is using its R&D from those days in the iphone. iOS is just OS X lite under another name

 

[pm]

The "US Patent Act of 2011" AKA the "America Invents Act" passed last month in both the house and senate with the intent of improving the US patent system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_Invents_Act

To clarify your post, the house and senate each passed their own version of the bill. There is no telling whether they will be able to rectify the differences between the two and send a unified bill to the president. It is a strong indication, however, that we are closer to patent reforms now than we have been in a long time.

Also, it may interest you to know that the only "radical" change proposed in the patent reform acts that were passed in the conversion of the U.S. patent system to a first to file system (currently it is a first to invent system). At least one of the bills includes a provision for post grant review (similar to the opposition proceedings in Europe), but who knows if it will be in the final bill.

Thanks for the clarification.


And, while it looks like you guys are doing it anyway, can we drop the discussion of the US education system and stay on topic?

 

[pm]

I listened this on NPR this afternoon:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack

It's the most recent episode of "This American Life" investigating 'patent trolls'. It looks into the background of the Lodsys patent litigation. It is really good and I thought the producers did a nice job laying out both sides of the story.