The US is the largest arms exporter in the world.

[Schadenfroh]

A bright spot in times of outsourcing.

Sun Sep 6, 2009 7:38pm EDT
The United States accounted for more than two-thirds of foreign weapons sales

U.S. weapons sales jumped nearly 50 percent in 2008 despite the global economic recession to $37.8 billion from $25.4 billion the year before.

The jump defied worldwide trends as global arms sales fell 7.6 percent to $55.2 billion in 2008, the report said.

The United States also led in arms sales to the developing world, signing 70.1 percent of these weapons agreements at a value of $29.6 billion in 2008, the report said.

Many of these defense related jobs are available only to US citizens and thus cannot be outsourced. This also does not cause unfavorable trade reactions from other nations since it is expected that a chunk of defense research, development and manufacturing be kept domestic for national security purposes. This massive market employs tons of US citizens in both manufacturing and R&D positions.

Italy, the second ranked country, amassed only $3.7 billion in arms sales, while Russia ranked third with sales falling to $3.5 billion in 2008, down from $10.8 billion in 2007.

Oddly enough, I did not see Italy coming in at number two. I thought the United States, Russia and Germany would be the top three.

Finally, the next time people whine about something like the "Air Force creating jobs in France" due to a foreign purchase, realize that we are in no danger of running into a poor trade balance in regards to defense procurement. Not to mention that purchase would have created jobs in Alabama as EADS and Northrup were to militarize it on US soil.

While the current military budget is a bit high for current economic and budget conditions, it is not all going into a black hole. A perpetual stimulus from the government in action.

 

[evident]

our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

 

[alchemize]

USA USA USA!!!

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: evident
our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

Interesting points on the moral implications of the policy. If it helps the economy, who cares, right?

When's the last time the issue of how our policy may leave the US not being a nation that always sends the troops in to overthrow governments or put down rebellions somewhere, but does the same basic thing in deciding who to provide arms to, was debated in our 'national political debate'?

Selling arms, which is a very political act that can change who governs a country, is a policy set behind closed doors, with the public told 'ignore it like just another trade issue'.

In our political system, this huge issue isn't even on the public's radar to look at how to put the arms industry more under democratic rule, not in the arms industry's and well hidden administration and Pentagon people's hands. And Congress does nothing, apparently beholden to the economic benefits and the corruption of their constituents who demand they continue the money, not question the moral issues.

 

[Newbian]

Originally posted by: alchemize
USA USA USA!!!

Damn right.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: evident
our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

Well you sold to Iraq too, great deal for those who had to stand against those weapons, eh?

Doesn't seem like you learned your lesson about dealing with thirld world temporary buddies either.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: evident
our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

Well you sold to Iraq too, great deal for those who had to stand against those weapons, eh?

Doesn't seem like you learned your lesson about dealing with thirld world temporary buddies either.

I'm sure hundreds of former Pentagon officials now with the defense industry can explain the policies why these weapons are sold. The victims are invisible - no vote, no US media.

 

[CanOWorms]

Selling weapons to people under threat from European imposed genocide seems like a good move. We should be building the relationships of the future. We will need allies when we invade the UK, France, Germany, and other European countries.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Selling weapons to people under threat from European imposed genocide seems like a good move. We should be building the relationships of the future. We will need allies when we invade the UK, France, Germany, and other European countries.

Crack is whack, brotha.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Selling weapons to people under threat from European imposed genocide seems like a good move. We should be building the relationships of the future. We will need allies when we invade the UK, France, Germany, and other European countries.

Crack is whack, brotha.

You are missing the larger point, though, that ultimately arms are the anti-democracy tool most of the time, the way things are settled with a bullet rather than the process of democratic debate, and when the element of corruption is added that a foreign power is the one deciding who gets arms based on a selfish agenda, even moreso.

An excessive arms trade does indeed create a world hostil to democracy, corrupt and violent, and we're the main cause.

The 'better us than someone else' justification is no better than any other thuggish nation's justification. As the leader, we can do a lot to get the arms trade under control.

But go back to the 'why does the world hate the US' threads that many have asked, and you might find this topic part of the answer. Citizens aren't told much by the media, though.

If you want to wrap our policy in the pretty words like freedom and democracy, sometimes that's correct, but for one example, ask East Timor how it feels - when the US Congress funded weapons for Indonesia with the law saying they could not be used for any invasions, and Ford and Kissinger secretly told them, to get trade benefits, that they were given permission to illegally invde East Timor - killing hundreds of thousands with the weapons we supplied.

Number of times I've seen a righty take responsibility for our nation's action against East Timor: zero.

It reminds me of the many times any nation has people who condone immoral policies - whether it's Russians turning a blind eye to mass killings there, or Southern Americans who defended slavery that profited them, today's Americans who don't care the harms of a corrupt arms industry, are similar.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Selling weapons to people under threat from European imposed genocide seems like a good move. We should be building the relationships of the future. We will need allies when we invade the UK, France, Germany, and other European countries.

Well considering it is you and one other nutjob, yeah, you'll need support, A LOT of it.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: evident
our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

Well you sold to Iraq too, great deal for those who had to stand against those weapons, eh?

Doesn't seem like you learned your lesson about dealing with thirld world temporary buddies either.

yeah, i have a big problem with that too. the sales that i see are only to developed nations like japan australia and spain. it's a shame that the gov't allows the shady deals to go on as well as ones that are pretty legit and help our national security, not much i can do about it though.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: evident
our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

Well you sold to Iraq too, great deal for those who had to stand against those weapons, eh?

Doesn't seem like you learned your lesson about dealing with thirld world temporary buddies either.

yeah, i have a big problem with that too. the sales that i see are only to developed nations like japan australia and spain. it's a shame that the gov't allows the shady deals to go on as well as ones that are pretty legit and help our national security, not much i can do about it though.

I have no problems with the sales witin NATO but the propping up of some player in a hotbed region isn't right and is often critisised by the US while the US does it frequently.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: evident
our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

Well you sold to Iraq too, great deal for those who had to stand against those weapons, eh?

Doesn't seem like you learned your lesson about dealing with thirld world temporary buddies either.

yeah, i have a big problem with that too. the sales that i see are only to developed nations like japan australia and spain. it's a shame that the gov't allows the shady deals to go on as well as ones that are pretty legit and help our national security, not much i can do about it though.

I have no problems with the sales witin NATO but the propping up of some player in a hotbed region isn't right and is often critisised by the US while the US does it frequently.

To be fair, we have form on this too - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6728773.stm

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Selling weapons to people under threat from European imposed genocide seems like a good move. We should be building the relationships of the future. We will need allies when we invade the UK, France, Germany, and other European countries.

Well considering it is you and one other nutjob, yeah, you'll need support, A LOT of it.

Good thing that "other nutjob" is President Obama, huh?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: evident
our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

Well that's fine. But next time someone flys a plane into your building because your allies killed bunch of people with the weapons you sold, you shouldn't be complaining too.

 

[Lemon law]

Excuse me, I want to find some shame to crawl into when the damn USA can't sign a treaty banning the use and manufacture of land mines.

Every day, all over the world, totally innocent children are being killed and maimed for life while we in the USA think we are holier than thou.

I hope there will be a special place in hell for those fine haired sons of a bitches, as we in the USA do not have the moral fortitude to demand better.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me, I want to find some shame to crawl into when the damn USA can't sign a treaty banning the use and manufacture of land mines.

Every day, all over the world, totally innocent children are being killed and maimed for life while we in the USA think we are holier than thou.

I hope there will be a special place in hell for those fine haired sons of a bitches, as we in the USA do not have the moral fortitude to demand better.

You have obviously never been cut off from your line of supply and any possible defense from above with only a few other soldiers. The only reason we lived through that was because of mines.

I do not like mines, but I also don't care for artillery, missiles or any type of firearm.

The saddest day in the Milky Way Galaxy will be when Earthlings discover the technology for interstellar travel.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: evident

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: evident
our allies buying arms from us is creating alot of jobs in the defense sector. the dept im in depends on a significant % these contracts

Well you sold to Iraq too, great deal for those who had to stand against those weapons, eh?

Doesn't seem like you learned your lesson about dealing with thirld world temporary buddies either.

yeah, i have a big problem with that too. the sales that i see are only to developed nations like japan australia and spain. it's a shame that the gov't allows the shady deals to go on as well as ones that are pretty legit and help our national security, not much i can do about it though.

I have no problems with the sales witin NATO but the propping up of some player in a hotbed region isn't right and is often critisised by the US while the US does it frequently.

Well with our 'friends' releasing terrorists to who kill hundreds of our countrymen in exchange for oil contracts for BP do you blame us? How long before you are deployed to Libya to be put on Qaddafi defense duty? You would make a good guard at his imperial tent palace.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Newbian

Originally posted by: alchemize
USA USA USA!!!

Damn right.

lol. Sounds like something from southpark

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me, I want to find some shame to crawl into when the damn USA can't sign a treaty banning the use and manufacture of land mines.

Every day, all over the world, totally innocent children are being killed and maimed for life while we in the USA think we are holier than thou.

I hope there will be a special place in hell for those fine haired sons of a bitches, as we in the USA do not have the moral fortitude to demand better.

The USA is the only country to deploy landmines? Or does your hatred toward children dying only apply when the U.S. is responsible? Is it OK if we kill children with something OTHER than landmines? I'm just trying to get clarification here..

Ok ok ok.. stay with me here for a second. Lets say a South Korean child walks across the border to North Korea (Who can blame him for trying to get to paradise?).. and he gets blown up by a North Korean landmine. Do you STILL blame the U.S. for that? Can you somehow link GWB and the Republicans not providing him free healthcare and driving him to want to want across the DMZ?

Ok ok ok! Let me be serious for a second. Lets say Dick Cheney and Condi Rice have a child. We'll call the child Dickondi Cheney (That sounds perverted - But.. let me continue).. Dickondi Cheney walks into an Iranian minefield on accident and gets killed. Do you still feel bad?

I guess I am just totally confused here. I don't understand if its OK for Americans to be killed by foreign mines.. and if your outrage applies there.. Or if its only foreign people getting killed by American mines? I give up..

 

[technologyslice]

The U.S. usually sell arms to both sides of a war where they can.

 

[dawp]

How many times have arms sales come back to bite us in the ass? Our 'friends' don't always remain so.

Seems we care more for short term profits and not long term consequences.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: dawp
How many times have arms sales come back to bite us in the ass? Our 'friends' don't always remain so.

Seems we care more for short term profits and not long term consequences.

You mean like stinger missiles?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me, I want to find some shame to crawl into when the damn USA can't sign a treaty banning the use and manufacture of land mines.

Every day, all over the world, totally innocent children are being killed and maimed for life while we in the USA think we are holier than thou.

I hope there will be a special place in hell for those fine haired sons of a bitches, as we in the USA do not have the moral fortitude to demand better.

The USA is the only country to deploy landmines? Or does your hatred toward children dying only apply when the U.S. is responsible? Is it OK if we kill children with something OTHER than landmines? I'm just trying to get clarification here..

Ok ok ok.. stay with me here for a second. Lets say a South Korean child walks across the border to North Korea (Who can blame him for trying to get to paradise?).. and he gets blown up by a North Korean landmine. Do you STILL blame the U.S. for that? Can you somehow link GWB and the Republicans not providing him free healthcare and driving him to want to want across the DMZ?

Ok ok ok! Let me be serious for a second. Lets say Dick Cheney and Condi Rice have a child. We'll call the child Dickondi Cheney (That sounds perverted - But.. let me continue).. Dickondi Cheney walks into an Iranian minefield on accident and gets killed. Do you still feel bad?

I guess I am just totally confused here. I don't understand if its OK for Americans to be killed by foreign mines.. and if your outrage applies there.. Or if its only foreign people getting killed by American mines? I give up..

I think you're missing his point. It's not so much the laying, it's the manufacture. Sure, you can say, "Mines don't kill people, mine layers do!", but that is just leaving morality at the door. A mine may be laid by North Korea, but if that mine was manufactured by a US Arms supplier, then you need to consider the fact that they now have some responsibility for the death of whoever it kills. The supplier is the enabler.