The US is at War with Muslims - and is that really a problem?

[Sacrilege]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,732684,00.html

Bünyamin E. is believed to be one of three suspected Islamists from Germany who were killed in a US drone attack in the town of Mir Ali in Pakistan's North Waziristan region on Oct. 4. He was apparently the only one of the three with German citizenship, however.

What crime did this German commit, by being a "suspected Islamist." Isn't that a thought crime?

A Left Wing German politician is pursuing information in the case:

According to Neskovic, if other countries adopted such a strategy, the entire world would become a war zone, with "American drones over the Brandenburg Gate (in Berlin) and North Korean drones over Washington."

The current situation is such that if an American Muslim goes to a country under drone surveillance, such as Yemen or Pakistan, meets with people of questionable love with the US, for whatever reason, they are potential targets for extra judicial killing. This is not law enforcement, but rather warfare against people simply because they are Muslim.

I ask, is this really wrong? Most patriotic Americans and Germans have little respect for hate spewing, vile, and murderous Muslims. The current public complacency with the drone attacks indicates that people are willing to kill their fellow citizens in a warfare like method, and ignore established legal procedure, when those citizens are associated with the militant branch of Islam.

This somewhat parallels the current FBI strategy of setting up American Muslims in mock terror attacks with the use of undercover agents, a process which almost nurtures those Muslims from being apparently peaceful fundamentalists to potential militants. Is there a problem with this if it removes from American society these undesirable elements in a controlled fashion, as opposed to the unwatched Times Square Bomber?

Soon after the 9/11 Attacks, Lou Dobbs changed the headline on his CNN show from "War on Terror" to "War on Radical Islam." It lasted for about a day, and was changed back due to backlash from Muslim groups. However, the current strategies in the "War on Terror" show that it really is a "War on Radical Islam." Fundamentalist Islam seems to be at odds with American and Western values, and non-Muslim Westerners are having trouble seeing the merits of allowing Muslims to live in the West, especially when those Muslims do not police their own and take care of the terrorist problem internally.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I dont understand why the muslim community would complain about a "war on radical islam"

they "claim" they are against radical ideas and are more secular, but in reality, they are all radical. some decided to take things further (suicide bombs, etc)

its in the koran. either you are all in or not at all.


the muslim community as a whole does not condemn terrorist acts as loudly as needed. muslims make up 1 billion in the world, but they claim very few are radical.


each religion has radicals, no doubt, but if they amount of radicals is a direct percentage of the total followers, then the islamic religion has a problem

if, in every religion 1% is radical, for example, 1% of a billion is 10 million.

While those who are our citizens deserve to have rights given to them here, if they are killed in a drone attack in pakistan or yemen because they are in contact with a known radical, I dont have any sympathy for the, nor do I think they deserve special circumstances that would protect them.


once we stop attacks on known terrorists because a US citizen is with them at the time, will be the day hundreds of americans muslims will flock to the region to protect the radicals.

 

[routan]

I dont understand why the muslim community would complain about a "war on radical islam"

they "claim" they are against radical ideas and are more secular, but in reality, they are all radical. some decided to take things further (suicide bombs, etc)

its in the koran. either you are all in or not at all.


the muslim community as a whole does not condemn terrorist acts as loudly as needed. muslims make up 1 billion in the world, but they claim very few are radical.

While those who are our citizens deserve to have rights given to them here, if they are killed in a drone attack in pakistan or yemen because they are in contact with a known radical, I dont have any sympathy for the, nor do I think they deserve special circumstances that would protect them.


once we stop attacks on known terrorists because a US citizen is with them at the time, will be the day hundreds of americans muslims will flock to the region to protect the radicals.

I am a Muslim. And I find it hilarious how people like you are scared witless of 1 billion Muslims. If you believe we are all "radicals", then you have a serious problem, which can best be addressed at http://home.fmhi.usf.edu/

 

[Freshgeardude]

I am a Muslim. And I find it hilarious how people like you are scared witless of 1 billion Muslims. If you believe we are all "radicals", then you have a serious problem, which can best be addressed at http://home.fmhi.usf.edu/

a billion man military can overthrow any country in the world today.

Routan, I want to believe there are moderate muslims. and while there were islamic groups that condemned the terrorist attacks of 9/11, they were not loud enough.

if muslims make up 1/6 of the world. Id expect a MUCH larger voice condemning terrorist attacks, but I simply dont.



also, I remember a thread here by Lemon Law claiming Achmedinajad was considered a moderate in Iran. If he is a moderate, we are in a world of shit.

 

[routan]

a billion man military can overthrow any country in the world today.

Routan, I want to believe there are moderate muslims. and while there were islamic groups that condemned the terrorist attacks of 9/11, they were not loud enough.

if muslims make up 1/6 of the world. Id expect a MUCH larger voice condemning terrorist attacks, but I simply dont

why should *I* apologise for 9/11 or any terrorist attack? this stupid claim has been regurgitated non-stop for almost a decade now. I wasnt involved in it. I didnt do ANYTHING that I should be apologetic about.

You can believe what you want. There are radical people in the world, and they arent tied to any particular religious belief system. They are just tied to *a* belief system. Such as yourself: you are a radical who has a belief system that all Muslims are radicals

 

[Freshgeardude]

why should *I* apologise for 9/11 or any terrorist attack? this stupid claim has been regurgitated non-stop for almost a decade now. I wasnt involved in it. I didnt do ANYTHING that I should be apologetic about.

You can believe what you want. There are radical people in the world, and they arent tied to any particular religious belief system. They are just tied to *a* belief system. Such as yourself: you are a radical who has a belief system that all Muslims are radicals

I have a problem with that.

Your beliefs are the same as the terrorists. His might be more radical than yours, but when they took planes into buildings they did it "in the name of islam"

If you arent condemning the methods, you are agreeing with them, because if didnt like it, you would say something like, " I apologize for the terrorist attack that stemmed from radicals in my religion, that is not what we believe in and condemn the use of violence as a method of persuasion."


I will tread my own waters. There were jewish terrorists in british ruled area known today as israel. The actions were strictly condemned by the larger group of Jews in the area.

the Irgun, a group stemmed from Haganah, commited a terrorist attack by bombing the King David Hotel.

It was strictly condemned by other jew political groups

 

[Infohawk]

Fair warning people. Routan will cut and run if you come up with an evidence-based argument. He won't answer questions if they challenge his beliefs. If you're lucky, you'll see him thank other posters who share his opinions.

This guy is a Turk in Pakistan. It's not like he was visiting family. He probably got what he wanted. Not sure why this is a big deal unless someone can offer evidence he was handing out food or something.

 

[P4man]

I will tread my own waters. There were jewish terrorists in british ruled area known today as israel. The actions were strictly condemned by the larger group of Jews in the area.

Yeah and a few years later they all got military decorations and at least three of these terrorist leaders later became Prime minister of Israel. Thats how much the new Jewish state hated terrorists.

When are people going to realise that terrorism is a tactic, and as such has nothing to do with religion. Its a form of resistance, and it has been practiced by Christians (IRA in northern ireland), Jews (Palestine), and non religious groups, from the French revolutionaries to the blacks in South Africa under the apartheid regime to the ETA in Spain.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Yeah and a few years later they all got military decorations and at least three of these terrorist leaders later became Prime minister of Israel. Thats how much the new Jewish state hated terrorists.

When are people going to realise that terrorism is a tactic, and as such has nothing to do with religion. Its a form of resistance, and it has been practiced by Christians (IRA in northern ireland), Jews (Palestine), and non religious groups, from the French revolutionaries to the blacks in South Africa under the apartheid regime to the ETA in Spain.

It is a tactic yes, thats why it still exists, it works.


but are you honestly going to sit there and sympathize with terrorism?


strictly targeting civilian population is WRONG however you look at it.

 

[P4man]

I dont condone terrorism as a tactic. Never have, never will (contrary to some of the Pro Israel gang here). And I dont think it works.

Just pointing out this isnt a war on Islam. Its not even a war. Declaring war on terrorism is as silly as declaring war on war. This 'war' is just trying to crush resistance, thats what it really is. Now go ahead and figure out what is being resisted and why.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I dont condone terrorism as a tactic. Never have, never will (contrary to some of the Pro Israel gang here). And I dont think it works.

Just pointing out this isnt a war on Islam. Its not even a war. Declaring war on terrorism is as silly as declaring war on war. This 'war' is just trying to crush resistance, thats what it really is. Now go ahead and figure out what is being resisted and why.

what does flying 4 planes into buildings and the ground on the other side of the planet have to do with a war that wasnt happening?


the war came after the terrorism, not before, even though the region was fucked up before

 

[IronWing]

We (the US) aren't at war with Islam. We're not even at war with radical Islam. We're not even at war with violent, radical Islam. In fact, we support violent, radical Muslims who attack Americans. If we were categorically at war with violent, radical Muslims who attack Americans, our troops would be in Saudi Arabia, not Iraq. Mainly we fight against the perceived enemies of the Saudi regime.

 

[P4man]

what does flying 4 planes into buildings and the ground on the other side of the planet have to do with a war that wasnt happening

What are you asking? What those terrorists where resisting? You still havent figured that out yet, have you? Think some more.

the war came after the terrorism, not before, even though the region was fucked up before

You mean the Afghan war I suppose, or did you mean the Iraqi one? (or the upcoming Iranian war or the upcoming war in Yemen?). Wars dont end terrorism, wars that install new puppet regimes breed resistance, therefore terrorism.

There were essentially no terrorists in Iraq prior to the US invasion. Sadam had that pretty damn well under control. Sure, there were terrorists in Afghanistan, after all, the US fundend and armed them when they resisted the USSR occupation (and werent called terrorists, but freedom fighters).

But even that war wasnt about fighting terrorism, the Taliban offered to deliver Bin Laden but the US wasnt even interested. They still dont seem to be. It was partially to get revenge against something, anything (understandable too, even if that doesnt make it legal) and partially to install yet another US friendly regime. Oops, I mean, a regime that doesnt support terrorism. IE, doesnt support resistance. Against the US that is.

 

[Zebo]

Yeah and a few years later they all got military decorations and at least three of these terrorist leaders later became Prime minister of Israel. Thats how much the new Jewish state hated terrorists.

When are people going to realise that terrorism is a tactic, and as such has nothing to do with religion. Its a form of resistance, and it has been practiced by Christians (IRA in northern ireland), Jews (Palestine), and non religious groups, from the French revolutionaries to the blacks in South Africa under the apartheid regime to the ETA in Spain.

Clerics employing militias of torturers and executioners alone should tell you the nature of the religion for hard core believers. After all, they are clerics and know their religion better than anyone. Muslims themselves are largest victims of other Muslims. Look Around. Algeria, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc. When they run out of others to kill it's "not quite Muslim enough" they go after.

 

[Zebo]

War is nothing new with this sect basically since day Mo commanded 50 battles himself up until the industrial revolution which left them behind it had been non stop. Now with accident of geology giving them riches and colonization of the west by Muslims war will continue. It can be no other way. Read Qu'ran you'll understand.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/

The hadiths are almost as important which is life of Mo which every Muslim should emulate.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/

 

[Sacrilege]

What are you asking? What those terrorists where resisting? You still havent figured that out yet, have you? Think some more.



You mean the Afghan war I suppose, or did you mean the Iraqi one? (or the upcoming Iranian war or the upcoming war in Yemen?). Wars dont end terrorism, wars that install new puppet regimes breed resistance, therefore terrorism.

There were essentially no terrorists in Iraq prior to the US invasion. Sadam had that pretty damn well under control. Sure, there were terrorists in Afghanistan, after all, the US fundend and armed them when they resisted the USSR occupation (and werent called terrorists, but freedom fighters).

But even that war wasnt about fighting terrorism, the Taliban offered to deliver Bin Laden but the US wasnt even interested. They still dont seem to be. It was partially to get revenge against something, anything (understandable too, even if that doesnt make it legal) and partially to install yet another US friendly regime. Oops, I mean, a regime that doesnt support terrorism. IE, doesnt support resistance. Against the US that is.

What were they resisting??? I believe the Left Wing apologists and Muslim apologists always say that terrorists are "resisting" Israels occupation of "Palestinian" "lands", America's influence in the Middle East, and American culture.

1. America has chosen its side in the Israel vs Palestinian conflict. If Muslims don't like that, and want to engage in terrorism in response, then I guess America IS at war with Muslims. The fact of the matter is, both sides in Israel/Palestine have done wrong, and Americans would much rather side with a Western-like democracy that values it's own people's lives, values diversity, freedom, etc.

2. If America self-reduced its influence in the Middle East and abandoned its ally regimes (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Egypt, etc.) those nations would descend into Islamist chaos and become like Syria, Iran, Taliban Afghanistan, etc. Is living like a primitive really what Muslims want?

3. Many Muslims do hate American culture and values, things such as happiness, freedom, respecting diverse people, worshiping the God of your choosing, etc. America should not change these values to appease some backwards Muslims.

 

[JS80]

I am a Muslim. And I find it hilarious how people like you are scared witless of 1 billion Muslims. If you believe we are all "radicals", then you have a serious problem, which can best be addressed at http://home.fmhi.usf.edu/

What are your opinion on Jews? What about Israel?

 

[P4man]

Clerics employing militias of torturers and executioners alone should tell you the nature of the religion for hard core believers.

Yeah. youd never see that with any other religion would you. Like good Christians would never do that. I guess the inquisition never happened. The KKK wasnt Christian. Lebanese Christian militias didnt commit massacres like in Sabra and Shatila. The IRA wasnt Catholic. The Army of God isnt Christian. I could go on, but maybe you get the idea.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Fair warning people. Routan will cut and run if you come up with an evidence-based argument. He won't answer questions if they challenge his beliefs. If you're lucky, you'll see him thank other posters who share his opinions.

This guy is a Turk in Pakistan. It's not like he was visiting family. He probably got what he wanted. Not sure why this is a big deal unless someone can offer evidence he was handing out food or something.

Exactly 100% true!! This guy started a thread a while back trying to explain that not all muslims were radical.....
yet when confronted with the truth and proof, he cuts and runs or claims that he is not like them other muslims.....

Or he will lose it and lash out when you least expect it...sort of like the 9/11 muslims!

 

[Jaskalas]

The US is at War with Muslims - and is that really a problem?

Considering the millions living here on our land? Yes that would be a problem.

 

[P4man]

3. Many Muslims do hate American culture and values, things such as happiness, freedom, respecting diverse people, worshiping the God of your choosing, etc. America should not change these values to appease some backwards Muslims.

Yeah that must be it. Muslims hate happiness (a uniquely US virtue)!
My dear man. Do some reading. A LOT of reading.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Yeah. youd never see that with any other religion would you. Like good Christians would never do that. I guess the inquisition never happened. The KKK wasnt Christian. Lebanese Christian militias didnt commit massacres like in Sabra and Shatila. The IRA wasnt Catholic. The Army of God isnt Christian. I could go on, but maybe you get the idea.

It`s ok P4man, you have already proved that you have a hard on against the USA and Israel.....and for the Palestinians....
As usual what you have to say does not address anything relevant! It`s all hyperbole..

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Funny I always thought that the Israelis had a hardon against everyone. Hell they even sank a US ship and nothing was done about it.

 

[CanOWorms]

Fair warning people. Routan will cut and run if you come up with an evidence-based argument. He won't answer questions if they challenge his beliefs. If you're lucky, you'll see him thank other posters who share his opinions.

This guy is a Turk in Pakistan. It's not like he was visiting family. He probably got what he wanted. Not sure why this is a big deal unless someone can offer evidence he was handing out food or something.

There goes Infohawk on his white supremacist bit. He was a German citizen, the article is about unease in Germany about its own citizen's death, yet you focus on this ethnicity and call him a Turk. Is it because a true German can only be white, fuhrer?

 

[IGBT]

more like islam at war wit the non islam world. In islam it's a mans world.