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The US is abandoning fundamental physics research

cquark

Golden Member
While Hubble and Voyager's cancellation have made the headlines, there's been a gradual yet more substantial decline in resources for physics research in the US. A much more harmful event to astrophysics is NASA's cancellation of the Astrophysics Data Analysis and Long Term Space Astrophysics programs.
http://catdynamics.blogspot.com/2005/03/bleedin-nasa-exploration-vs-science.html

The US is basically abandoning experimental particle physics. The Tevatron at Fermilab will run through the end of the decade; after that, fundamental research will be carried out at the LHC at CERN in Switzerland. We'll see a reversal of the decades-long draw of scientists from Europe and Asia to the US. This isn't necessarily good news for Europe, though, as it's hard for a field to be healthy when most of the major participating institutions drop out. Over half the top 20 best universities and labs for this type of physics are in the US today.
For details, see http://pancake.uchicago.edu/~carroll/images/seife05.pdf

Now the Department of Commerce wants to make it much more difficult for foreigners to get research done in the U.S. The DoC wants to require a special license for each foreign national who will be doing research with an "export controlled instrument" -- a vague category that depends on what country you're from, but might include things like powerful computers. If your Chinese grad student wants to use a supercomputer,
they will have to wait until a license comes through, which will probably take a few months. 45% of the graduate students in the physical students are foreign nationals, who have been a tremendous benefit to science in the US.
 
Originally posted by: cquark
45% of the graduate students in the physical students are foreign nationals, who have been a tremendous benefit to science in the US.

That's the problem for me. We need to push more science (probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science) at younger ages for American kids.

 
Science is teh devil!!!!!!!11elevenone

OK maybe not that bad, but it's terribly sad to see cuts in places that can help us so much.
 
probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science

Thats why many of the engineers and scientists come from red states. Nice generalization there. I'm sure many will buy that BS. I am not a conservative, however to say that red states aren't interested in science is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen. Ask the kids in Utah, Wyoming, Wisconsin, Idaho or any other red state that they are interested in science or not. The whacked out extreme left on this forum will be shocked at what they find.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: cquark
45% of the graduate students in the physical students are foreign nationals, who have been a tremendous benefit to science in the US.

That's the problem for me. We need to push more science (probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science) at younger ages for American kids.

Yes. Here's an interesting quote from a physics prof advising potential grad students about the physics GRE, pointing out how much better prepared the European and Asian students are for it.
The GRE physics test covers all of physics. If you're a US student, then you
do not have the breadth to do very well in it, unless you were taking
intro calculus college classes while a junior in high school and went
straight into advanced electives at a Good University. The US system
starts students too late in physics, does modular immersion courses
with poor student retention (in both sense, students don't take
additional classes, and individual students retain the material
poorly). So most students do not have a comprehensive education in
physics at the end of their junior year. A good European student will
outperform you on the test, on average. So will the Asian students, if
good enough.
 
By the way, for those who don't know, 2005 is the World Year of Physics, celebrating the 100th anniversary of Albert Einstein's miraculous year of 1905, when he published papers explaining special relativity, the photoelectric effect, and Brownian motion.

See http://www.physics2005.org/ for details.
 
Originally posted by: cquark
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: cquark
45% of the graduate students in the physical students are foreign nationals, who have been a tremendous benefit to science in the US.

That's the problem for me. We need to push more science (probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science) at younger ages for American kids.

Yes. Here's an interesting quote from a physics prof advising potential grad students about the physics GRE, pointing out how much better prepared the European and Asian students are for it.
The GRE physics test covers all of physics. If you're a US student, then you
do not have the breadth to do very well in it, unless you were taking
intro calculus college classes while a junior in high school and went
straight into advanced electives at a Good University. The US system
starts students too late in physics, does modular immersion courses
with poor student retention (in both sense, students don't take
additional classes, and individual students retain the material
poorly). So most students do not have a comprehensive education in
physics at the end of their junior year. A good European student will
outperform you on the test, on average. So will the Asian students, if
good enough.


This is because we are forced to take BS classes like art History,Anthropology etc..I was talking to my prof. about this the other day.He is from the Netherlands and went to school in Europe.He was saying that when you go to school for a science you go to school for a science...they dont make you waste your time with other BS. So in the same 4 yr period a kid in Europe could take alot more classes than I could.
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science

Thats why many of the engineers and scientists come from red states. Nice generalization there. I'm sure many will buy that BS. I am not a conservative, however to say that red states aren't interested in science is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen. Ask the kids in Utah, Wyoming, Wisconsin, Idaho or any other red state that they are interested in science or not. The whacked out extreme left on this forum will be shocked at what they find.

You missed my point. I'm talking about government funding. Red states are much more reticent about supporting science. Just look at the evolution debate. It's going to become more of a state thing (like California's recent research) since the red states are so backwards.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: raildogg
probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science

Thats why many of the engineers and scientists come from red states. Nice generalization there. I'm sure many will buy that BS. I am not a conservative, however to say that red states aren't interested in science is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen. Ask the kids in Utah, Wyoming, Wisconsin, Idaho or any other red state that they are interested in science or not. The whacked out extreme left on this forum will be shocked at what they find.

You missed my point. I'm talking about government funding. Red states are much more reticent about supporting science. Just look at the evolution debate. It's going to become more of a state thing (like California's recent research) since the red states are so backwards.

Yup, damn those Red states and no science or engineering funding..
 
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: raildogg
probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science

Thats why many of the engineers and scientists come from red states. Nice generalization there. I'm sure many will buy that BS. I am not a conservative, however to say that red states aren't interested in science is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen. Ask the kids in Utah, Wyoming, Wisconsin, Idaho or any other red state that they are interested in science or not. The whacked out extreme left on this forum will be shocked at what they find.

You missed my point. I'm talking about government funding. Red states are much more reticent about supporting science. Just look at the evolution debate. It's going to become more of a state thing (like California's recent research) since the red states are so backwards.

Yup, damn those Red states and no science or engineering funding..

That just says a school is highly ranked in engineering. I could link to stories of red states opposing evolution. I don't see anything about Texas funding there. (And obviously there are going to be exceptions but compared to the rest of the world the red states have a serious attitude problem towards science).
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Red state toothless Joe don't need none of dem liberal science. What for? He is gonna be raptured anyways.

Blue state flaming Ken doesn't seem too interested either, as he would rather be shooting up ramming his dong up into his lifepartner Brad's cornhole.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
That just says a school is highly ranked in engineering. I could link to stories of red states opposing evolution. I don't see anything about Texas funding there. (And obviously there are going to be exceptions but compared to the rest of the world the red states have a serious attitude problem towards science).

A state school...where do you think funding comes from?
 
Originally posted by: beer
A state school...where do you think funding comes from?

Federal research funding. Highly ranked state universities usually get a minority of their funding from their state. According to the UT engineering college's web page, state funding and tuition accounts for less than 25% of the cost of educating undergraduates.
http://www.engr.utexas.edu/about/funding.cfm

That brings us back to the point of this thread--why is the US abandoning physics and what impact will it have on the future of the United States?
 
Originally posted by: UglyCasanova
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Red state toothless Joe don't need none of dem liberal science. What for? He is gonna be raptured anyways.

Blue state flaming Ken doesn't seem too interested either, as he would rather be shooting up ramming his dong up into his lifepartner Brad's cornhole.

homophobe!
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: UglyCasanova
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Red state toothless Joe don't need none of dem liberal science. What for? He is gonna be raptured anyways.

Blue state flaming Ken doesn't seem too interested either, as he would rather be shooting up ramming his dong up into his lifepartner Brad's cornhole.

homophobe!

lol
 
Originally posted by: beer
Originally posted by: Infohawk
That just says a school is highly ranked in engineering. I could link to stories of red states opposing evolution. I don't see anything about Texas funding there. (And obviously there are going to be exceptions but compared to the rest of the world the red states have a serious attitude problem towards science).

A state school...where do you think funding comes from?

LOL. The question is where do YOU think funding comes from. See cquark's post. A lot of people are aware that big schools get their funding in large part from the federal government.

 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: cquark
45% of the graduate students in the physical students are foreign nationals, who have been a tremendous benefit to science in the US.

That's the problem for me. We need to push more science (probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science) at younger ages for American kids.


So, Infohawk. Ever hear of the Redstone Arsenal, NASA, and Oakridge? Just another of your DS, retarded postings!
 
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: cquark
45% of the graduate students in the physical students are foreign nationals, who have been a tremendous benefit to science in the US.

That's the problem for me. We need to push more science (probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science) at younger ages for American kids.


So, Infohawk. Ever hear of the Redstone Arsenal, NASA, and Oakridge? Just another of your DS, retarded postings!


You don't ever read beyond the first couple posts do you? And what, do you think NASA is red-state funded jackass?
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: cquark
45% of the graduate students in the physical students are foreign nationals, who have been a tremendous benefit to science in the US.

That's the problem for me. We need to push more science (probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science) at younger ages for American kids.


So, Infohawk. Ever hear of the Redstone Arsenal, NASA, and Oakridge? Just another of your DS, retarded postings!


You don't ever read beyond the first couple posts do you? And what, do you think NASA is red-state funded jackass?

Federal funding, jackass! I think that is clearly green - red and blue.

 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: cquark
45% of the graduate students in the physical students are foreign nationals, who have been a tremendous benefit to science in the US.

That's the problem for me. We need to push more science (probably only in blue states since red states aren't interested in science) at younger ages for American kids.


So, Infohawk. Ever hear of the Redstone Arsenal, NASA, and Oakridge? Just another of your DS, retarded postings!


You don't ever read beyond the first couple posts do you? And what, do you think NASA is red-state funded jackass?

Yeah, you are right. I shouldn't have bothered - you were already beat down.

 
Pay more attention next time. I've noticed you only read the first couple posts in a lot of threads. It's' bad for the board.
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk

You don't ever read beyond the first couple posts do you? And what, do you think NASA is red-state funded jackass?

I'd think that you should care more about the people who work in it than who funds it. Funding it is not the same as actually doing the science and engineering. An accountant is not an engineer.

I wouldn't be surprised if most engineers/scientists are conservative, too.
 
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