The US Constitution and government power

[OutHouse]

when our founding fathers wrote the Constitution it was to form a government of LIMITED power. but today that is not the case, we now have a government of UNLIMITED power. I really wish i could go back in time and snatch up Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and the 25+ other founding fathers and bring them to our time and have them start bitch slapping the clowns on the hill and voiding out every single law that infringes on peoples rights and taking power away from the feds and giving it back to the states.

 

[OCGuy]

FEMA has the right to suspend the constitution when they see fit. I doubt that would be endorsed by the authors of the first 10.

 

[dphantom]

The government cannot take anything from us we are not already willing to give up.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: dphantom
The government cannot take anything from us we are not already willing to give up.

Sadly true. I won't bother to repeat the oft quoted Franklin.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Back to re-education camp for you citizen.

 

[Bird222]

Where is the part (I think it is the Constitution), where it says 'any powers not spelled out go to the people'? When I glanced through it, I could seem to find it.

 

[RabidMongoose]

It doesn't matter what certain Founding Fathers would think of us today..

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Bird222
Where is the part (I think it is the Constitution), where it says 'any powers not spelled out go to the people'? When I glanced through it, I could seem to find it.

I suppose people will point you to the 9th or 10th Amendments.

 

[Insomniator]

Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: dphantom
The government cannot take anything from us we are not already willing to give up.

Old Ben Franklin said it very well -

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

I also like this quote as well -

I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

The courts are part of the problem. They were never supposed to legislate from the bench or take power away from the people and the states and relegate them to the federal government. For example, the founders (and the original SCOTUS) never thought that hanging or firing squad was a 'cruel and unusual' punnishment for a murderer. Today, there are some federal judges that would claim that if a convicted murderer feels a needle prick during lethal injection, it's curel and unusual punnishment.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

The courts are part of the problem. They were never supposed to legislate from the bench or take power away from the people and the states and relegate them to the federal government. For example, the founders (and the original SCOTUS) never thought that hanging or firing squad was a 'cruel and unusual' punnishment for a murderer. Today, there are some federal judges that would claim that if a convicted murderer feels a needle prick during lethal injection, it's curel and unusual punnishment.

Where does it say that 'cruel and unusual punishment' would always be static? The founders were also incredibly racist and discriminatory. I don't give a damn what they specifically think. We weren't meant to be bound to their dead hand from the grave.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

It's the courts who decided that the commerce cause can be interpreted broadly enough that ANYTHING can be linked to interstate commerce and therefore nothing is out of the jurisdiction of the feds.

That's why growing a marijuana plant in your backyard for personal use is under federal jurisdiction. The fact that you have produced something which could possibly be sold to someone in a different state means they can control it.

The US government has no limits. The constitution might as well be toilet paper.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

The courts are part of the problem. They were never supposed to legislate from the bench or take power away from the people and the states and relegate them to the federal government. For example, the founders (and the original SCOTUS) never thought that hanging or firing squad was a 'cruel and unusual' punnishment for a murderer. Today, there are some federal judges that would claim that if a convicted murderer feels a needle prick during lethal injection, it's curel and unusual punnishment.

Where does it say that 'cruel and unusual punishment' would always be static? The founders were also incredibly racist and discriminatory. I don't give a damn what they specifically think. We weren't meant to be bound to their dead hand from the grave.

I'm not trying to advocate that we remain static and live like the founders did 200+ years ago, but that doesn't mean that just because they're a bunch of 'dead white guys' doesn't mean we should ignore their thoughts either. They lived under tyranny. They put their lives and livelihoods on the line for their beliefs. I know that I haven?t had to do that and I doubt that you have either, unless you grew up in the old USSR or something similar. Having lived through that (the founding fathers), I'll put a bit of faith in their wisdom thank you very much.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

It's the courts who decided that the commerce cause can be interpreted broadly enough that ANYTHING can be linked to interstate commerce and therefore nothing is out of the jurisdiction of the feds.

That's why growing a marijuana plant in your backyard for personal use is under federal jurisdiction. The fact that you have produced something which could possibly be sold to someone in a different state means they can control it.

The US government has no limits. The constitution might as well be toilet paper.

And yet the Supreme Court has limited the Commerce Clause power in recent times...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Citrix
when our founding fathers wrote the Constitution it was to form a government of LIMITED power. but today that is not the case, we now have a government of UNLIMITED power.

No it's not, you drooling right-winger.

I really wish i could go back in time and snatch up Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and the 25+ other founding fathers and bring them to our time and have them start bitch slapping the clowns on the hill and voiding out every single law that infringes on peoples rights and taking power away from the feds and giving it back to the states.

This really doesn't deserve a substantive response, so it'll get a snippy one:

Be sure you have Adams restore his law locking up anyone who criticizes the president, that you have Jefferson lead a violent revolution of the sort he said the nation needs every 20 years or so for the 'blood of patriots to water the tree of liberty', and that you have Washington end all our overseas Shenanigans and mutual defense treaties, following his most prominent advice to the nation to avoid foreign entanglements. Say hi to their slaves, too.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

The courts are part of the problem. They were never supposed to legislate from the bench or take power away from the people and the states and relegate them to the federal government. For example, the founders (and the original SCOTUS) never thought that hanging or firing squad was a 'cruel and unusual' punnishment for a murderer. Today, there are some federal judges that would claim that if a convicted murderer feels a needle prick during lethal injection, it's curel and unusual punnishment.

Where does it say that 'cruel and unusual punishment' would always be static? The founders were also incredibly racist and discriminatory. I don't give a damn what they specifically think. We weren't meant to be bound to their dead hand from the grave.

I'm not trying to advocate that we remain static and live like the founders did 200+ years ago, but that doesn't mean that just because they're a bunch of 'dead white guys' doesn't mean we should ignore their thoughts either. They lived under tyranny. They put their lives and livelihoods on the line for their beliefs. I know that I haven?t had to do that and I doubt that you have either, unless you grew up in the old USSR or something similar. Having lived through that (the founding fathers), I'll put a bit of faith in their wisdom thank you very much.

The Founding Fathers also allowed tyranny to continue under their watch. They only wanted to be free from tyranny for themselves - rich aristocratic white men. Everyone else was out of luck.

We can maybe look at their general principles and philosophies, but a close interpretation or view of their remarks in narrow circumstances makes no sense and is illogical.

Furthermore, the Constitution was not devised by a single person. No single founding father fully conceived of it. It was a negotiating process. It was voted on by individual state legislatures. There were subsequent amendments that interact with other amendments and portions of the 'original' document. In the end, the opinions of some old discriminatory dead men means very little today.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

It's the courts who decided that the commerce cause can be interpreted broadly enough that ANYTHING can be linked to interstate commerce and therefore nothing is out of the jurisdiction of the feds.

That's why growing a marijuana plant in your backyard for personal use is under federal jurisdiction. The fact that you have produced something which could possibly be sold to someone in a different state means they can control it.

The US government has no limits. The constitution might as well be toilet paper.

And yet the Supreme Court has limited the Commerce Clause power in recent times...

That's because the SCOTUS is more moderate / conservative than it was 30 years ago.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: FerrelGeek

Originally posted by: Insomniator
Can't the courts step in and stop this madness?

The courts are part of the problem. They were never supposed to legislate from the bench or take power away from the people and the states and relegate them to the federal government. For example, the founders (and the original SCOTUS) never thought that hanging or firing squad was a 'cruel and unusual' punnishment for a murderer. Today, there are some federal judges that would claim that if a convicted murderer feels a needle prick during lethal injection, it's curel and unusual punnishment.

Where does it say that 'cruel and unusual punishment' would always be static? The founders were also incredibly racist and discriminatory. I don't give a damn what they specifically think. We weren't meant to be bound to their dead hand from the grave.

I'm not trying to advocate that we remain static and live like the founders did 200+ years ago, but that doesn't mean that just because they're a bunch of 'dead white guys' doesn't mean we should ignore their thoughts either. They lived under tyranny. They put their lives and livelihoods on the line for their beliefs. I know that I haven?t had to do that and I doubt that you have either, unless you grew up in the old USSR or something similar. Having lived through that (the founding fathers), I'll put a bit of faith in their wisdom thank you very much.

The Founding Fathers also allowed tyranny to continue under their watch. They only wanted to be free from tyranny for themselves - rich aristocratic white men. Everyone else was out of luck.

We can maybe look at their general principles and philosophies, but a close interpretation or view of their remarks in narrow circumstances makes no sense and is illogical.

Furthermore, the Constitution was not devised by a single person. No single founding father fully conceived of it. It was a negotiating process. It was voted on by individual state legislatures. There were subsequent amendments that interact with other amendments and portions of the 'original' document. In the end, the opinions of some old discriminatory dead men means very little today.

I'm very aware of this, thank you very much; I know our nation's history, warts and all, better than the average American. The fact that a fair number of people had a hand in crafting the constitution is one of the reasons why I have faith in it. Just because some of them advocated some things that I don't like doesn't mean that I'll reject them out of hand. Also, as I said, I don't want to be stuck in the total mindset of 200+ years ago. The beauty of the Constitution is that it's a very solid foundation for a government (if it were followed as intended) but not so rigid as to cause a society to stagnate.

 

[piasabird]

The Fed Govt has the power to control Interstate & International Commerce. This is specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

There are federal agencies that need to be reigned in. These silly EPA inspections for automobiles is just a form of harassment.

 

[sandorski]

Your Founding Fathers were very wise. They realised that their Ideas, although many were very good, were not set in stone and that their views would not necessarily always be True for every Age. That's why they limited the scope of the Constitution, so as not to burden the future with too many roadblocks devised by a limited Knowledge. They even allowed the complete removal of their own Ideas if it seemed to be necessary by future generations.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Citrix
when our founding fathers wrote the Constitution it was to form a government of LIMITED power. but today that is not the case, we now have a government of UNLIMITED power.

No it's not, you drooling right-winger.

I really wish i could go back in time and snatch up Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, and the 25+ other founding fathers and bring them to our time and have them start bitch slapping the clowns on the hill and voiding out every single law that infringes on peoples rights and taking power away from the feds and giving it back to the states.

This really doesn't deserve a substantive response, so it'll get a snippy one:

Be sure you have Adams restore his law locking up anyone who criticizes the president, that you have Jefferson lead a violent revolution of the sort he said the nation needs every 20 years or so for the 'blood of patriots to water the tree of liberty', and that you have Washington end all our overseas Shenanigans and mutual defense treaties, following his most prominent advice to the nation to avoid foreign entanglements. Say hi to their slaves, too.

1. Yes it did, they wanted the power to be with the states not the federal government.

2. Jefferson never lead a revolution much less start one.

3. Blacks owned slaves as well and that's a fact.

4. You are a ignorant uneducated lackey people like you are reason we are not a free people or country anymore.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
FEMA has the right to suspend the constitution when they see fit. I doubt that would be endorsed by the authors of the first 10.

God no! They'd throw up in their mouth a little, if they heard that kind of nonsense. I'm sure that history embellishes quite a bit, but the evidence is right there in our original government code. They didn't fuck around with freedom.

 

[Bird222]

Somebody presented the argument to me that even though the federal government couldn't establish a religion, the states could under the constitition. As far as I know, no states have done so, but is this possible under the constitution?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: dphantom
The government cannot take anything from us we are not already willing to give up.

Sadly true. I won't bother to repeat the oft quoted Franklin.

"Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you,"

Seems the Soviets knew this would happen to us just as it happened with them. Goes back to the communist manifesto and the writings of Karl Marx.