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[Destiny]

I dunno... but I think MM is taking a dump... too many variables or too many new players they throwing them into the sharks...

I didn't see that many weird builds even when i was new...


Finally finished the first Korean Tourney by Nexon Starter League... the winner was FXOpen and in that last game I think the Dark Seer from Eye of the Tiger just gave up and fed, and fed, and fed...
FXOpen pretty much sweeped the tournament


For watching the almost the entire tourny and the final match all I got was a rare sword "Sword of the DemiGod" for Sven....:ninja:

 

[Zeze]

I had a long long day last night. Got home at midnight and just wanted to play one lazy game- pick afk jungler, troll around at jungle and gank at will. But I randomed Troll. I still wanted to jungle, but my team already set up a trilane for me with Treant & Sand King without saying anything (gotta love Very High++ pubs).

So I laned. Last hitting, fast toggling between melee & ranged mode to harass/chase, constantly cycling their respective nukes, using Phase boots... it woke me right up. As you know Troll takes considerable of work than your usual right-click carry.

I want to share the match with you guys. Match ID- 242552660 (watch -> recent games -> type in the ID#)

It's not a super high quality game with constant warding, dewarding, smoking, and upsets. It's a stomp. But it showcases good fundamentals of how a team should play to victory. Some key notes:

1. An effective stacking & pulling by Treant. He denies our entire waves while soaking up netural camp gold & exp.

2. Perfectly played trilane. If you commit a trilane, you MUST land kills for it to be worth it for all three (and perform point #1). Otherwise you're left with a team where 3 out of 5 are all poor & underleveled. And kills we performed. With Sand King & me counting on Treant's Living Armor, we dove tower at level 3 and got FB. (Check out the two burst heals from us immediately after to stay in lane, no RoH needed). Also SK spam clicked Tuskar from far to switch tower aggro from me, so we both lived by halving the tower DPS. Very nice plays.

3. Troll is not the hardest carry. He's outranked late by Void, Spec, PL, and more. He really shines at midgame with his OP short-cd nuke, slow, and the ultimate. We exploited this and took down the Tier-1 top tower at 6 mins as soon as I reached level 6.

4. Then 3 of us properly rotated bottom asap and took down T1 bottom too. Treant continued to shine with his global armor. Lots of prolonged fights & clutch plays in red HP from us. Then we took down T1 mid.

5. As soon as all T1 towers were gone, my supports immediately placed aggressive jungle wards to pressure into T2. These wards zoned enemies out of their own jungle & allow us to kill any poor souls there. This is exactly how the match should be played! We played like clockwork with surprisingly minimal communication. It's like everyone knew what to do on their own and they came together as one mind automatically.

6. T2 mid was gone. Since we were pushing fast with Troll, it was still too risky to attempt raxing at such low levels. We naturally went to Rosh with a single ping.

7. Sand King played excellently with clutch double-triple stuns. He played him properly with dagger and zoned out enemy Void. You could feel Void's hesitation all game. SK mostly hid out of battle- this meant Void can't just jump in and Chrono. He would be severely punished by SK's Epicenter-daggering into Chrono (it goes off while frozen).

8. I did a proper & efficient Troll build- Aquila to hold me over, then Phase for amazing early chase. You should almost never get Treads on him, then he will never get in range to do his work (or spend more money like Yasha or Shadow Blade to do what Phase could). Then Ogre Axe to round him up with beefy HP. Then finished BKB. BKB is 10 seconds of pure god-mode that ignores everything. Few of clutch plays with BKB + red hp.

No Linkens here. I haven't made that item in the last 200-300 games. I got plenty of mana from my team's Arcane Boots.

The game was everything by the book with proper adaptations and thinking on feet from all of us. It also shows Dota is not about gold and items, but teamwork and proper planning. It's nice. Check it out if you're interested.

 

[nijikon5]

I had a long long day last night. Got home at midnight and just wanted to play one lazy game- pick afk jungler, troll around at jungle and gank at will. But I randomed Troll. I still wanted to jungle, but my team already set up a trilane for me with Treant & Sand King without saying anything (gotta love Very High++ pubs).

So I laned. Last hitting, fast toggling between melee & ranged mode to harass/chase, constantly cycling their respective nukes, using Phase boots... it woke me right up. As you know Troll takes considerable of work than your usual right-click carry.

I want to share the match with you guys. Match ID- 242552660 (watch -> recent games -> type in the ID#)

It's not a super high quality game with constant warding, dewarding, smoking, and upsets. It's a stomp. But it showcases good fundamentals of how a team should play to victory. Some key notes:

1. An effective stacking & pulling by Treant. He denies our entire waves while soaking up netural camp gold & exp.

2. Perfectly played trilane. If you commit a trilane, you MUST land kills for it to be worth it for all three (and perform point #1). Otherwise you're left with a team where 3 out of 5 are all poor & underleveled. And kills we performed. With Sand King & me counting on Treant's Living Armor, we dove tower at level 3 and got FB. (Check out the two burst heals from us immediately after to stay in lane, no RoH needed). Also SK spam clicked Tuskar from far to switch tower aggro from me, so we both lived by halving the tower DPS. Very nice plays.

3. Troll is not the hardest carry. He's outranked late by Void, Spec, PL, and more. He really shines at midgame with his OP short-cd nuke, slow, and the ultimate. We exploited this and took down the Tier-1 top tower at 6 mins as soon as I reached level 6.

4. Then 3 of us properly rotated bottom asap and took down T1 bottom too. Treant continued to shine with his global armor. Lots of prolonged fights & clutch plays in red HP from us. Then we took down T1 mid.

5. As soon as all T1 towers were gone, my supports immediately placed aggressive jungle wards to pressure into T2. These wards zoned enemies out of their own jungle & allow us to kill any poor souls there. This is exactly how the match should be played! We played like clockwork with surprisingly minimal communication. It's like everyone knew what to do on their own and they came together as one mind automatically.

6. T2 mid was gone. Since we were pushing fast with Troll, it was still too risky to attempt raxing at such low levels. We naturally went to Rosh with a single ping.

7. Sand King played excellently with clutch double-triple stuns. He played him properly with dagger and zoned out enemy Void. You could feel Void's hesitation all game. SK mostly hid out of battle- this meant Void can't just jump in and Chrono. He would be severely punished by SK's Epicenter-daggering into Chrono (it goes off while frozen).

8. I did a proper & efficient Troll build- Aquila to hold me over, then Phase for amazing early chase. You should almost never get Treads on him, then he will never get in range to do his work (or spend more money like Yasha or Shadow Blade to do what Phase could). Then Ogre Axe to round him up with beefy HP. Then finished BKB. BKB is 10 seconds of pure god-mode that ignores everything. Few of clutch plays with BKB + red hp.

No Linkens here. I haven't made that item in the last 200-300 games. I got plenty of mana from my team's Arcane Boots.

The game was everything by the book with proper adaptations and thinking on feet from all of us. It also shows Dota is not about gold and items, but teamwork and proper planning. It's nice. Check it out if you're interested.

tl;dr

Basically, get a RoH and 2 lifesteal items. Win the game.


J/K, it's nice having games were your team actually wants to work hard to have a satisfying game, even if a stomp.

I had a game with 2 friends this weekend, random BH on our team didn't like my friend going support/tank abaddon. So he whined and bitched. I told him, it's cool, just work together and we can win this. Guy told me to "shut up", he proceeded to throw the game.

Sad thing is, we almost came back from mega late game because I was playing Dusa for shits and giggles. The mistake I made was instead of going 2 DRs, I went DR / BOTS. If I went 2 DRs, with BH's AC ( Why he picked AC? Because chirop build ) we could have went from their t2 mid to the throne in under 60 seconds ( I had already killed 3/5 on their team, almost 4/5 but zeus had cheese ).

 

[GoodRevrnd]

I dunno... but I think MM is taking a dump... too many variables or too many new players they throwing them into the sharks...

I feel like the MM search has to expand to max range every time I queue. It's getting old stuck with a bunch of self-absorbed shitties on my team.

I had a game with 2 friends this weekend, random BH on our team didn't like my friend going support/tank abaddon. So he whined and bitched. I told him, it's cool, just work together and we can win this. Guy told me to "shut up", he proceeded to throw the game.

So many shitties stuck in LOL CARRY ABADON mode. He is such a good support hero and they rage at you when you play him that way or expect them to. Honestly, at mid-tier pub match you can just have him fill any roll the team needs. Instead I watch a bunch of retards take aegis from our actual carry, charge headfirst into a group of five and die. Shield & ult do not make you unkillable you stupid assholes.

 

[Zeze]

tl;dr

Basically, get a RoH and 2 lifesteal items. Win the game.

No, get Linkens as Mirana vs Riki. Don't ever get salve. Win the game.

 

[Zeze]

So many shitties stuck in LOL CARRY ABADON mode. He is such a good support hero and they rage at you when you play him that way or expect them to. Honestly, at mid-tier pub match you can just have him fill any roll the team needs. Instead I watch a bunch of retards take aegis from our actual carry, charge headfirst into a group of five and die. Shield & ult do not make you unkillable you stupid assholes.

This so much. I played with a truly garbage 3-stack of Lina, SD, and... Pudge. And they wanted to trilane a safe lane. WTF? I was forced to go mid as Abaddon.

I owned my mid vs Huskar who underestimated me. I went 13-2 and did what I could, ganked & healed, and even got Abyssal.

Of course we lost. The trilane had a combined score of 4-12 (Pudge 0-6). Then these 3 idiots blamed ME! LOL. I don't suffer from confirmation bias. I lose just as much and have bad games 50% of the time. But this is truly 100% enraging.

Talk about pure filthy garbages. I WANTED to play support Aba- of course we got ass-stomped by real enemy carries like Naix.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

tl;dr

Basically, get a RoH and 2 lifesteal items. Win the game.


J/K, it's nice having games were your team actually wants to work hard to have a satisfying game, even if a stomp.

Oh God, can we please never, ever, EVER talk about this ever again...?

 

[ManBearPig]

Deleted

 

[{bad}]

just when i was about to quit dota for few months again becoz of shitty MM and teams, i gt 2 good games

 

[{bad}]

I was forced to go mid as Abaddon..

same happened to me also, no1 went mid so i had 2 mid with abba in 2/4 games.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

just when i was about to quit dota for few months again becoz of shitty MM and teams, i gt 2 good games

The thing I really hate about being matched with new players is how the all the players from both teams rally and start shitting on them. It's not their fault they've been matched with people better than they are, it's not their fault that they don't know heroes, items, and game mechanics as well as other players. It's a real shame that people are so selfish that they can't sacrifice a few wins to properly teach people how to play better and instead say things like "report [insert_player_here] noob" or "report lvl 1" or "0 wins noob".

 

[p0rkguy]

The thing I really hate about being matched with new players is how the all the players from both teams rally and start shitting on them. It's not their fault they've been matched with people better than they are, it's not their fault that they don't know heroes, items, and game mechanics as well as other players. It's a real shame that people are so selfish that they can't sacrifice a few wins to properly teach people how to play better and instead say things like "report [insert_player_here] noob" or "report lvl 1" or "0 wins noob".

You need to understand, these beginners watch pro plays and do the same builds as them. They don't have the skill nor experience to do as they do. They do the same pros do and they're automatically correct because pros did the same thing. They already believe they're better and correct on how to play.

 

[{bad}]

The thing I really hate about being matched with new players is how the all the players from both teams rally and start shitting on them. It's not their fault they've been matched with people better than they are, it's not their fault that they don't know heroes, items, and game mechanics as well as other players. It's a real shame that people are so selfish that they can't sacrifice a few wins to properly teach people how to play better and instead say things like "report [insert_player_here] noob" or "report lvl 1" or "0 wins noob".

i totally agree with you, in my earlier posts i also said same thing, matchmaking algorithm is terrible. also fact that some people re good with some other and bad with others also makes it difficult. we can't judge someone e1 by viewing his last 25 games.

thats y i only report people who abuse others or intentionally feed.

and another important fact is that some people are too stubborn to listen to their teammates. and mostly these are not low level people. if they are getting ganked again and again team will ask them to stick but won't and die again, then abuse team. i hates these people.

another good example of this is ursa.
whenever ursa is around 6 lvl and he has vlads we know he will go rosh , other team knows he will go rosh. so everyboday wards there.

i always ask ursa use smoke and go rosh and please tell b4 u go 4 solo rosh so that we can be ready in good positions case other team comes. but e1 after this, he wouldn't use smoke and go rosh, other team will always kill him and steal agies.

___________________________

though m in favor of trying new things in dota still i think people should try them 1st with bots if they think that they will fail in that with players.

specially people who whas to go ancient from lvl 1 with medusa tinker also.
i hve seen games in which they get level 6 in 1st 20-25 mins e1 when other team completely ignored them.

 

[{bad}]

You need to understand, these beginners watch pro plays and do the same builds as them. They don't have the skill nor experience to do as they do. They do the same pros do and they're automatically correct because pros did the same thing. They already believe they're better and correct on how to play.

u nailed it bro.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

You need to understand, these beginners watch pro plays and do the same builds as them. They don't have the skill nor experience to do as they do. They do the same pros do and they're automatically correct because pros did the same thing. They already believe they're better and correct on how to play.

I've never seen a pro rush a bloodstone on a sniper. I've never seen a pro think autoattacking creeps at level 1 was a good way to get last hits. I never saw a pro who thought that a Medusa-Magnus safe lane was a good idea, or that Magnus should fight the Medusa for last hits. I've never seen a pro who thought that 4 slippers was a good starting build for a safe lane support. I've never seen a pro who thought stacking and pulling was for noobs.

I could go on. These have all happened in my games, and more besides.

 

[p0rkguy]

I've never seen a pro rush a bloodstone on a sniper. I've never seen a pro think autoattacking creeps at level 1 was a good way to get last hits. I never saw a pro who thought that a Medusa-Magnus safe lane was a good idea, or that Magnus should fight the Medusa for last hits. I've never seen a pro who thought that 4 slippers was a good starting build for a safe lane support. I've never seen a pro who thought stacking and pulling was for noobs.

I could go on. These have all happened in my games, and more besides.

That just sounds really low tier. The tier I'm talking about are players who managed to get through with similar item/skill builds as pros or playing with hard carries in 50min+ games.

 

[{bad}]

this week 3 times i met a pugna who would steal all farm, last hit all kills and towers.
he didn't leave anything for carries.
and after farming boot/arcane he always made refreshers.
and he owned with 2 wards, every gank he would put down 2 wards and enemy team will die bcoz they tried 2 spam.
though he didn't play conventional way, still it worked because he knew wat he was doing

 

[Zeze]

Slow day at work so I'm going to geek out and list the pros and cons of Dota 2 disables.

THE TYPES OF DOTA 2 DISABLES: (arguably from best to worst)


Stun: The best kind of disable in the game. You are unable to move, attack, cast spells, or use items. It also interrupts spells that the target was channeling. The downside is that the duration is understandably much shorter vs other disables. Some specific target stuns and passives go through BKB = a huge counter.

Items that grant stuns: Basher & Abyssal Blade


Hex: You are turned into a critter. You are unable to attack, cast spells, or use items. It also disables all passives with few exceptions. This is note-worthy against evasion items and heroes. Your movement is reduced to 100, which is notably better than the totally locked stun. If you have haste rune or surged by DS, you can still move as max MS while hexed, effectively countering it.

Items that grant hex: Scythe of Vyse. This is arguably the best disable item anyone can buy (including carries). Amazing 800 casting range & instant effect (unlike Abyssal's melee range).


Silence: The enemy cannot cast spells. It basically turn you into a helpless auto-attacking creep. Silence is deadly against supports who depends on their spells, and escapists who need to use their short CD spells (Puck, Weaver, Storm). The downside is that enemies can use items to mitigate or outright dispel silence (Manta & BKB dispel it, Ghost Staff, Dagger, Force Staff, Wand, Mek, etc).

Items that grant silence: Orchid (also gives amp damage)

Slow: Your movement speed or attack speed are reduced. MS reduction is critical to survival. The slow effect is rampant in Dota and is deadly early & mid game. But it's inferior than stun & hex as the enemy can attack, cast spells, and use items.

Items that grant slow: Rod of Atos, Diffusal Blade, Shiva's Guard


Disarm: You can't attack, at all. This is a primary counter to carries.

Items that grant disarm: Heaven's Halberd.


Blind: You can miss your attacks, either by a percentage or completely. Unlike Disarm, it can be countered by MKB (Truestrike), and some passives (like Sniper's Headshot).


Item Lock: You can't use your items. There isn't a disable that only locks items in Dota currently. I wish Icefrog would explore this aspect. BKB & Hex prevents you from using items, but the most notable effect is Doom's Doom. You can't use items for a very long time.


Dota 2 is a very complex game. Lots of disables also come in multiple combinations. There are also lots of other kind of disables (Ensnare, Taunt, Ethereal, Purge, Minus Armor, Amp Damage, etc).

 

[BergeLSU]

God, where did this Necro is a carry fad come from? Now I get yelled at for playing him as a support. He has NO abilities that contribute to him carrying.

Because he isn't a true support. He is best when he is given enough farm to get a 10-mintue Mekanism.

If a Necro is forced to be a ward bitch all game, your team is going to be in a tough spot. I'd say he is a 2/3 .

 

[smackababy]

Necro can be a carry if played properly. He can get incredibly tanky and easily dominate the other team. As a support, he is pretty worthless. He has no real stun / disable except for his ultimate. Even as a "healer" support, you're better off just letting him farm and get more items. He can easily dominate.

 

[Peter Nixeus]

this week 3 times i met a pugna who would steal all farm, last hit all kills and towers.
he didn't leave anything for carries.
and after farming boot/arcane he always made refreshers.
and he owned with 2 wards, every gank he would put down 2 wards and enemy team will die bcoz they tried 2 spam.
though he didn't play conventional way, still it worked because he knew wat he was doing

Like this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVbSzkwx-9M

My Lina was a victim of those Pugna wards = I casted Laguana Blade and I died with over 2k of damage cast back on me, he was very good at hiding them and I didn't see them till it was too late.

 

[p0rkguy]

Necro can be a carry if played properly. He can get incredibly tanky and easily dominate the other team. As a support, he is pretty worthless. He has no real stun / disable except for his ultimate. Even as a "healer" support, you're better off just letting him farm and get more items. He can easily dominate.

No... any hero can dominate with farm, that's just how Dota works. Some are better than others with farm but that's based off the hero's skills/farming and team composition.
Necro will always be support. People think he's a carry because all his abilities scale well and get better as the game progresses.
Necro, much like Abaddon, will always be support. Everybody I see playing Abaddon since launch have been an attempt to carry, very rare will you see a good player that actually seems like he's used the hero since Dota 1.

 

[BergeLSU]

No... any hero can dominate with farm, that's just how Dota works. Some are better than others with farm but that's based off the hero's skills/farming and team composition.
Necro will always be support. People think he's a carry because all his abilities scale well and get better as the game progresses.
Necro, much like Abaddon, will always be support. Everybody I see playing Abaddon since launch have been an attempt to carry, very rare will you see a good player that actually seems like he's used the hero since Dota 1.

The idea of a support is that the hero is similarly viable with or without farm.

Necro's worth is being able to spam his heal constantly in a teamfight. Without any farm (See most Crystal Maidens), he would be able to heal once or twice with his ult. Necro as a 5 in a lineup is nearly worthless.

 

[smackababy]

No... any hero can dominate with farm, that's just how Dota works. Some are better than others with farm but that's based off the hero's skills/farming and team composition.
Necro will always be support. People think he's a carry because all his abilities scale well and get better as the game progresses.
Necro, much like Abaddon, will always be support. Everybody I see playing Abaddon since launch have been an attempt to carry, very rare will you see a good player that actually seems like he's used the hero since Dota 1.

Necro is not a support. He never will be. He is either a carry or completely worthless. Necro can be a great carry with farm or just a terrible hero without it. Anyone who picks him as anything but a primary farmer, is hurting the team. You're much better off picking up a real support.

Abaddon, is a very effective tank, but not really a true support. He is a much higher priority farmer than a support should ever be. He should be played similar to Omni. He can initiate and should be in the front lines of a team fight. Granted, he shouldn't steal farm from the real carry. I have played tons of games as Accursed (Abbadon clone in HoN). He is never the ward bitch.

 

[p0rkguy]

Looks like we have different meaning for supports.
A ward bitch is just that, a ward bitch. Any hero can be a ward bitch, just some are better than others at the task.
A support is a healer/tanker/crowd controller/mobilizer/disabler.
A carry is the guy that deals the highest dps.