The unofficial Dota 2 thread + complete instructions for new players! [FREE INVITES]

[Zeze]

I think I saw Totalbiscuit play this.
No offence, but there was a ton of run in, hit, run back for 35 min (for last-hitting or something?) which looked pretty tedious and not a particularly fun game mechanic. I looked into it and this is apparently some sacred cow/enviable skill in the Dota crowd? That's fine, but not sure I'd enjoy it. Seemed to make stuff pretty slow, and a somewhat risk-averse game? And not really in a strategic way.

I could be completely wrong though. I might give it a try if I get a key, or it's finally released, which must be soon right?

You are actually completely wrong... people are aggressive from minute 1. There's constant harassing, warding/dewarding, creep pulling, tower diving, smoking ganking, rune-fighting from minute 1. No one really farms except the primary carry and secondary semi-carry/ganker. The rest 3 are roaming, ganking, map controlling.

What you are describing is either really older slower version of Dota like 5 years ago or very very low skill tier. The game has been patched over and over to have much higher gold/exp reward for ganking, faster death timer, cheaper gank items (smoke, drums, medallion, etc), etc.

Check this beauty out- all hell breaks loose even before the battle horn is blown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJvYvD4PX-Q&t=5m10s

Here is the play-by-play:

EG vs NTH

- In Dota, Rosh/Roshan is a powerful NPC that gives big bounty, exp, and a free respawn item. Roshan is typically not killed until 15-20 minutes into the game.

- There's are several pocket team drafts to kill Rosh at level 1 before the creeps spawn (Nature's Prophet's Treants can tank, take turns tanking & heal).

- At pro level, this is very obvious and can backfire very easily (get caught in the Rosh pit).

-Team NTH (Dire)'s Nature's Prophet dies to Roshan on PURPOSE. This shows a global message, prompting the team EG to scoot over there and ready to punish them.

-It was an elaborate ruse and EG are caught out of position, giving 2 kills before the first creep spawn, quite an advantage for NTH.

-Oh and of course Nature's Prophet lost nothing because he already spent all his gold before dying to Roshan, and gave no EXP to enemy. AND he has global TP, immediately joining the battle for 5v5.

- They are ALL level 1 and the game hasn't even 'started' (the creeps haven't spawned).

Ridiculously clever gameplay & highly entertaining.


PM me with your email if you want an invite. It doesn't hurt to try.

 

[Zeze]

I'm in the middle of a game now (alt-tabbed).

I randomed this trash tier Bloodseeker. Outplaying the Storm nicely, we're both about level 2-3 then level 1 Enchantress comes from jungle with a Troll creep.

She slows me, Troll ensnares me, then Storm beats me down. I die.

My team's Kotl comes mid to ward the top rune blind spot to help me. Then SK also came mid to counter-gank.

All this happened within 3 minutes of the game. I play very high tier, but this is very typical from medium skill to up.

 

[obidamnkenobi]

thanks, appreciate the explanation, or correction. Even thought I have no idea what half those terms mean. Will have to look into the links in the OP (Can't here at work).

Maybe TB sucks, I dunno. Just looked like there was a lot of running away from each other the second two heroes got within 5 ft of each other. I imagine it's more fun playing than watching though. Since it's free it certainly doesn't hurt to try. I will if I have some time one of these days.

edit; yeah I was also under the impression that dying is so detrimental to you and your team that people are extremely careful?

 

[Peter Nixeus]

I'm in the middle of a game now (alt-tabbed).

I randomed this trash tier Bloodseeker. Outplaying the Storm nicely, we're both about level 2-3 then level 1 Enchantress comes from jungle with a Troll creep.

She slows me, Troll ensnares me, then Storm beats me down. I die.

My team's Kotl comes mid to ward the top rune blind spot to help me. Then SK also came mid to counter-gank.

All this happened within 3 minutes of the game. I play very high tier, but this is very typical from medium skill to up.

Yep... we do this alot with my real DOTA 2 team... some times we get too gank happy in the game (don't bother taking down towers) and STILL lose the entire game even though we have a lot more kills than the other team...

 

[Zeze]

edit; yeah I was also under the impression that dying is so detrimental to you and your team that people are extremely careful?

No. Very very far from it. The game has evolved into a pure gankfest (gank means gang up and kill). Icefrog (the primary developer) has made a conscious effort for this over many years. And Dota is more fun and action packed than ever before.

Be sure to watch that vid and read my comment. Also check out the remaining Top 10 plays on that channel. It WILL get you pumped up.

Also see the extensive beginner guides I've listed in the first posts.

 

[Chiropteran]

Got spirit breaker in an all random last night and dominated pretty hard with him. Enemy team night stalker never really got a chance to do anything because I was able to gank him so easily. Seems like a really strong hero for my playstyle.

 

[Zeze]

Got spirit breaker in an all random last night and dominated pretty hard with him. Enemy team night stalker never really got a chance to do anything because I was able to gank him so easily. Seems like a really strong hero for my playstyle.

He's definitely a fun pub stomper.

MOM + BKB = zero fear.

 

[Peter Nixeus]

Got spirit breaker in an all random last night and dominated pretty hard with him. Enemy team night stalker never really got a chance to do anything because I was able to gank him so easily. Seems like a really strong hero for my playstyle.

He's definitely a fun pub stomper.

MOM + BKB = zero fear.

He's very effective for ganking heroes who wander too far from their own team to solo farm.

Add dust to use right after you charge to solo gank an invisible hero = invisble hero rage quit (especially rikki). :awe:

I normally only use him when someone is using Jakiro (his charge stuns everyone in the path) so I can keep groups or an individual hero in Jakiro's flames... or if someone wants to do a NAIX/SB bomb combo... also he is a good solo ganker to keep a hard carry in check up until the mid game... other than that, SB has the most annoying voice over in the game.

 

[Peter Nixeus]

Maybe TB sucks, I dunno. Just looked like there was a lot of running away from each other the second two heroes got within 5 ft of each other. I imagine it's more fun playing than watching though. Since it's free it certainly doesn't hurt to try. I will if I have some time one of these days.

edit; yeah I was also under the impression that dying is so detrimental to you and your team that people are extremely careful?

There is nothing careful in this video posted on the other DOTA thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leM_8r74ksw


most of bobing, weaving, running in or out or baiting is to try to set up a perfect devistating skill combos - kind of like boxing. One combo like in the above video can turn the tide of the game even if you may be falling behind on levels, kills, and gold.

 

[Zeze]

There is nothing careful in this video posted on the other DOTA thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leM_8r74ksw


most of bobing, weaving, running in or out or baiting is to try to set up a perfect devistating skill combos - kind of like boxing. One combo like in the above video can turn the tide of the game even if you may be falling behind on levels, kills, and gold.

That is great to watch for the entertainment value, but boy are the enemy team idiots.

They are pushing into the base while knowing Blackhole and Golems are up? That is as bad as that Windrunner with Desolator. Any players worth their salt would only push into base if they picked off 1 or 2, making it 3v5, or split-push top and bot rax- effectively halving the effectiveness of Blackhole & Golem

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I'm in the middle of a game now (alt-tabbed).

I randomed this trash tier Bloodseeker. Outplaying the Storm nicely, we're both about level 2-3 then level 1 Enchantress comes from jungle with a Troll creep.

She slows me, Troll ensnares me, then Storm beats me down. I die.

My team's Kotl comes mid to ward the top rune blind spot to help me. Then SK also came mid to counter-gank.

All this happened within 3 minutes of the game. I play very high tier, but this is very typical from medium skill to up.

I've only been ganked mid once, a level 1 gank when I was playing as tinker. Just used laser, ran under the tower, and bottled up. I still died, but at least I got first blood.

thanks, appreciate the explanation, or correction. Even thought I have no idea what half those terms mean. Will have to look into the links in the OP (Can't here at work).

Maybe TB sucks, I dunno. Just looked like there was a lot of running away from each other the second two heroes got within 5 ft of each other. I imagine it's more fun playing than watching though. Since it's free it certainly doesn't hurt to try. I will if I have some time one of these days.

edit; yeah I was also under the impression that dying is so detrimental to you and your team that people are extremely careful?

Late game, yes. If you die, it's at least 70 seconds before you respawn and in the meantime you team is fighting 4v5, and if you have a team fight hero like Enigma then your team is pretty much screwed.

Early game, not so much. Dying doesn't really change much early game, sometimes it's even better to just suck it up and die rather than run back to base to heal. You can tell dying doesn't really give much away early game when you see people playing drow who don't know how to last hit and just relying on kills to get farm. Last time I saw someone playing like that it took them 10 minutes to get power treads and 30 minutes to get a Manta Style.

 

[Ns1]

How long do these matches/games last these days? I Srsly haven't played since the war3 days.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

How long do these matches/games last these days? I Srsly haven't played since the war3 days.

Anywhere from 20 to 90 minutes.

 

[Zeze]

How long do these matches/games last these days? I Srsly haven't played since the war3 days.

Games in general are much shorter now. It isn't uncommon to see organized team getting first rax and push to gg at 22-25 mins.

Most games end anywhere between 25-40 mins. You still see epic 60-80 min games too.

It's much better than war3 days of farming/ricing all game and most games going 40-50 mins.

 

[Zeze]

Early game, not so much. Dying doesn't really change much early game, sometimes it's even better to just suck it up and die rather than run back to base to heal. You can tell dying doesn't really give much away early game when you see people playing drow who don't know how to last hit and just relying on kills to get farm. Last time I saw someone playing like that it took them 10 minutes to get power treads and 30 minutes to get a Manta Style.

Ehhhhhh I'd hate to be that guy but..

Dying early does hurt, but I can't think of a single scenario where you would 'suck it up' and feed them a kill. It's never justified as it gives them more gold and exp, making you lose the lane further. Just walk or TP back. The only rare case is if you're a jungler (Naix, Axe, etc), you may want to kill yourself by the neutral creeps AFTER you spend all your gold- to save the fountain trip.

If you are playing carry, you really gotta know how to farm. This is more than just last hitting- but knowing when to TP to catch waves in other lanes, jungling if lane is too pushed, etc. You should never be idle.

30 min Manta is considered quite slow. 18-20 minutes would be considered good. For AM/Void and other Battlefury heroes, 12-15 mins is good if properly babysat.

 

[SockHaser]

Ehhhhhh I'd hate to be that guy but..

Dying early does hurt, but I can't think of a single scenario where you would 'suck it up' and feed them a kill. It's never justified as it gives them more gold and exp, making you lose the lane further. Just walk or TP back. The only rare case is if you're a jungler (Naix, Axe, etc), you may want to kill yourself by the neutral creeps AFTER you spend all your gold- to save the fountain trip.

If you are playing carry, you really gotta know how to farm. This is more than just last hitting- but knowing when to TP to catch waves in other lanes, jungling if lane is too pushed, etc. You should never be idle.

30 min Manta is considered quite slow. 18-20 minutes would be considered good. For AM/Void and other Battlefury heroes, 12-15 mins is good if properly babysat.

Yeah, if it took twenty min to farm the manta after treads that would put their gpm at about 252 which is very low for a carry.

Dota is a game that can feel very overwhelming when you play it, I imagine that once valve gets the tutorial in place things will be a bit better.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Ehhhhhh I'd hate to be that guy but..

Dying early does hurt, but I can't think of a single scenario where you would 'suck it up' and feed them a kill. It's never justified as it gives them more gold and exp, making you lose the lane further. Just walk or TP back. The only rare case is if you're a jungler (Naix, Axe, etc), you may want to kill yourself by the neutral creeps AFTER you spend all your gold- to save the fountain trip.

If you are playing carry, you really gotta know how to farm. This is more than just last hitting- but knowing when to TP to catch waves in other lanes, jungling if lane is too pushed, etc. You should never be idle.

30 min Manta is considered quite slow. 18-20 minutes would be considered good. For AM/Void and other Battlefury heroes, 12-15 mins is good if properly babysat.

A kill is around 200 gold early game. You lose it, you're now 400 gold behind. On the other hand, respawn time is almost instantaneous and you can just TP right back, so in total you're about 550 gold behind.

On the other hand, if you're low health, you still have to walk back to heal, throughout which time you're losing last hits and your opponent is getting free farm, you still have to spend money on a TP, and if you made an effort to stay alive you're now down a salve or tangoes. It just depends on how good you and your opponent are at last hitting, but if you used a salve, then it would be very easy to be down more than 600 gold by the time you walked back to base, healed, then TP'd to your lane again.

 

[Peter Nixeus]

How long do these matches/games last these days? I Srsly haven't played since the war3 days.

When the opposing team have 2 or more hard carries, and you have no hard carries = you must end the game in 20 to 30 minutes

When the opposing team have 1 hard carry and you have 1 hard carry or a semi-carry = end the game before the 40 minute mark.

Basically you try to win the game before the other team's carry takes over with their insane Damage Per Second... or gank the hell out of their hard carry before they farm enough gold to turn the tide of battle. But each game is different and the best thing to do is make sure each member do their roles and understand when to push or end the game. :biggrin:

 

[SockHaser]

A kill is around 200 gold early game. You lose it, you're now 400 gold behind. On the other hand, respawn time is almost instantaneous and you can just TP right back, so in total you're about 550 gold behind.

On the other hand, if you're low health, you still have to walk back to heal, throughout which time you're losing last hits and your opponent is getting free farm, you still have to spend money on a TP, and if you made an effort to stay alive you're now down a salve or tangoes. It just depends on how good you and your opponent are at last hitting, but if you used a salve, then it would be very easy to be down more than 600 gold by the time you walked back to base, healed, then TP'd to your lane again.

You give exp when you die, early game, exp is more important than gold

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

You give exp when you die, early game, exp is more important than gold

You also give away exp when you're walking to or from your lane.

It just depends on the situation. If you're lining against a hero who becomes a lot more powerful at 6 or who's soloing, sure. But if you're against a hard carry who needs gold more than experience, it may sometimes be better just to die or at least stay and fight rather than run away.

 

[Zeze]

You also give away exp when you're walking to or from your lane.

It just depends on the situation. If you're lining against a hero who becomes a lot more powerful at 6 or who's soloing, sure. But if you're against a hard carry who needs gold more than experience, it may sometimes be better just to die or at least stay and fight rather than run away.

I'm sorry, this just never happens or is almost never viable in any of the 2000 games I've played over 2 years (and 3+ years of Dota 1).

The EXTRA exp and gold you give to enemies on TOP of creeps is too much. Also you lose gold and lose EXP from creeps. Lose-lose.

You walk away, they just get to free farm and get standard exp from creeps. YOU are not giving away any exp to them. Only you lose.

That's why in an aggressive trilane, organized teams outright abandon that lane altogether. Because feeding is infinitely worse than tower hugging.

 

[Destiny]

I just purchased the Compendium... 225% Battle Points!

I also got a rare Witch Doctor set... did anyone get a similar set or something different?

 

[SockHaser]

I just purchased the Compendium... 225% Battle Points!

I also got a rare Witch Doctor set... did anyone get a similar set or something different?

You get the WD set for the first Dota 2 store purchase I believe

 

[Juddog]

I've been playing this like crazy over the weekend, mostly sticking with vs. bot matches just so that I can learn the various heroes, etc..

One thing that sucked was that one of the games had a graphics issue where my screen was completely black - I could still hear everything, but couldn't click on anything (or if it did something I couldn't see what it was doing). I ctrl+alt+del'd and killed the task, then logged back in and found I had a "low priority" status which put me in a crap queue with zero bonuses for 24 hours. I also had another abandoned game from earlier in that day, where I was hanging at the base too long trying to figure out how to buy and combine items, etc., so apparently the two "abandons" is what caused the low priority. It was pretty annoying; I can see giving me the "low priority" for messing up 2 real games but these were versus bots.

 

[smackababy]

Okay, I have officially stopped playing HoN and am making the Dota switch permanently. I stopped HoN for over a month and am going to pick Dota back up. This should help the feeling of slowness and overall crappy engine feel that I experience in Dota 2 because of HoN.