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[Zeze]

Ok, we will do it your way in a 1v1 game, and you will buy the roh and I'll buy the items you tell me to buy.

Why the hell would I play your stupid RoH build? Do I sense a weakness?

That alone tells me we got you convinced- finally. lol. Keep playing and continue to learn. Only took you about 20 paragraphs.

 

[smackababy]

Why the hell would I play your stupid RoH build? Do I sense a weakness?

That alone tells me we got you convinced- finally. lol. Keep playing and continue to learn. Only took you about 20 paragraphs.

No, what he is trying to do is (when you win) show that the RoH is good because you won the lane. Because, let's face it, he isn't going to win, regardless of items.

 

[Zeze]

Meh, at least I now know that he's not trolling, but genuinely bad all along. :|

 

[Chiropteran]

No, what he is trying to do is (when you win) show that the RoH is good because you won the lane. Because, let's face it, he isn't going to win, regardless of items.

I'm trying to make zeze admit that the difference in player skill between him and I would make the whole test pointless. I have no doubt he could out lane me, but it doesn't really say anything about my item choices.

 

[Chiropteran]

Meh, at least I now know that he's not trolling, and he's genuinely bad all along. :|

So you are admitting the entire scenario was stupid and pointless and you realize it wouldn't prove anything? Or are you saying you are a terrible noob too and it would be a fair comparison?

 

[Zeze]

So you are admitting the entire scenario was stupid and pointless and you realize it wouldn't prove anything? Or are you saying you are a terrible noob too and it would be a fair comparison?

Here he comes. Wow.

 

[z1ggy]

Today's entertainment brought to you by:

Zeze via PC sub forum.

 

[Zeze]

I'm trying to make zeze admit that the difference in player skill between him and I would make the whole test pointless. I have no doubt he could out lane me, but it doesn't really say anything about my item choices.

??? The test is that we exactly trade same last hits, denies, and harassments. Then you'll find yutself zoned out with RoH, ultimately losing the lane with EVERYTHING BEING EQUAL (same exp, gold, dmg taken)

Are you okay?

Today's entertainment brought to you by:

Zeze via PC sub forum.

Please tell me I'm trolled. I'm owned by it big time if so. :|

 

[Chiropteran]

??? The test is that we exactly trade same last hits, denies, and harassments. Then you'll find yutself zoned out with RoH, ultimately losing the lane with EVERYTHING BEING EQUAL (same exp, gold, dmg taken)

Are you okay?

So landing last hits and denies requires no skill at all? I strongly disagree.

How the hell do you expect to conduct this test? You going to restart the game every time I try to last hit a second early and lose one? Otherwise it's just a test of your personal skill vs mine.

And if you truly believe it can be done in a way that removes all effects of any personal skill, then why are you opposed to being the player with a RoH? We are just testing the items, not player skill, right?

 

[smackababy]

Since you're hung up on the whole skill thing, why not just stop being your awful starting items, and buy what we suggested. You should, if we are right, notice an increase in lane efficiency. This will be playing against the awfuls you are generally matched up with.

Or, stick with first item RoH and you might eventually claw your way out of MMR hell and get put straight back there by players who buy stat items first.

 

[BergeLSU]

So landing last hits and denies requires no skill at all? I strongly disagree.

How the hell do you expect to conduct this test? You going to restart the game every time I try to last hit a second early and lose one? Otherwise it's just a test of your personal skill vs mine.

And if you truly believe it can be done in a way that removes all effects of any personal skill, then why are you opposed to being the player with a RoH? We are just testing the items, not player skill, right?

He is suggesting that with the RoH, he would still win, and you would declare that the RoH is viable because you lost with the stats items.

 

[Chiropteran]

Since you're hung up on the whole skill thing, why not just stop being your awful starting items, and buy what we suggested. You should, if we are right, notice an increase in lane efficiency. This will be playing against the awfuls you are generally matched up with.

Or, stick with first item RoH and you might eventually claw your way out of MMR hell and get put straight back there by players who buy stat items first.

As I said before, I've played over 500 games. I *often* buy RoH first in all-random games. Now if all-random games are 1/3 of the games I play, and *often* does not mean *always*, you should be able to figure out that I have bought the suggested items in the majority of the games I have played.

Yet, I don't see the huge difference you or zeze profess, in fact I feel that I do better with an RoH than without, on average.

 

[Chiropteran]

He is suggesting that with the RoH, he would still win, and you would declare that the RoH is viable because you lost with the stats items.

Yes, but then he turns around and says:

??? The test is that we exactly trade same last hits, denies, and harassments. Then you'll find yutself zoned out with RoH, ultimately losing the lane with EVERYTHING BEING EQUAL (same exp, gold, dmg taken)

So how would he win with the RoH, if we are doing the exact same last hits and denies and harass? He would only win with it if it actually is the superior choice.

 

[Zeze]

I'm truly done. This guy is hopeless.

It's not even about being bad, but his fundamental way of thinking is... unique. He abandons basic logic and reading comprehension.

I'm the idiot from now on to level with this person.

 

[CWRMadcat]

As I said before, I've played over 500 games. I *often* buy RoH first in all-random games. Now if all-random games are 1/3 of the games I play, and *often* does not mean *always*, you should be able to figure out that I have bought the suggested items in the majority of the games I have played.

Yet, I don't see the huge difference you or zeze profess, in fact I feel that I do better with an RoH than without, on average.

It's not optimal. Doing better with RoH means your opponents are trash. That's it. It in no way validates your item choice. I have probably 800 games under my belt, and I've never seen anyone open RoH. That's not a coincidence. People actually want to maximize their chances of winning.

 

[Juddog]

I'm sure someone will make a community mod for it, sell it for $9.99, and make a million dollars in the first week.


And that is something that really irks me as well. Why is everything so expensive in Dota? Yeah, I get that it is F2P, but $15 for a courier? The stuff is extremely overpriced.

I found the pricing pretty annoying as well. It's free to play, and they get their money from selling items, I get that - but the price level is ridiculous. $35 for a single mod for a single character for instance (Lina's fiery hair) - wtf is this? Drop down the price to $5 and maybe I'd buy it.

 

[smackababy]

As I said before, I've played over 500 games. I *often* buy RoH first in all-random games. Now if all-random games are 1/3 of the games I play, and *often* does not mean *always*, you should be able to figure out that I have bought the suggested items in the majority of the games I have played.

Yet, I don't see the huge difference you or zeze profess, in fact I feel that I do better with an RoH than without, on average.

Chances are , you don't see a difference because you are bad. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but a capable player is far more effective in the lane with more damage, more HP, and the occasional regen than a player with less damage, less HP and steady regen.

The regen isn't something you should rely on. You take bursts of damage in Dota 2, not some constant slow damage. If you survive a gank attempt and are left with say 100HP, you are out of the lane. You can either go back to base and heal or stay as far away from the other player as possible while waiting to regen ever so slowly. You generate 300 HP per minute from RoH. That is a lifetime of losing XP during the laning phase. If you survived the first gank, you won't survive the next, because their skills will be leveled up and you won't be at full health.

Yes, on certain heroes, in certain situations, RoH isn't a bad choice (but certainly not first). If you are long lane Anti-Mage, after you build boots, RoH is a good option. You can continue lane presence while building your Battle Fury or Vanguard depending on your build.

 

[smackababy]

I found the pricing pretty annoying as well. It's free to play, and they get their money from selling items, I get that - but the price level is ridiculous. $35 for a single mod for a single character for instance (Lina's fiery hair) - wtf is this? Drop down the price to $5 and maybe I'd buy it.

Yeah, it is rather annoying. For $50 in HoN, I can get enough coins to buy an announcer, taunt, a special taunt, and like 4 or 5 alt avatars. But in Dota, I get a single reskin and maybe a courier...

 

[KaOTiK]

I found the pricing pretty annoying as well. It's free to play, and they get their money from selling items, I get that - but the price level is ridiculous. $35 for a single mod for a single character for instance (Lina's fiery hair) - wtf is this? Drop down the price to $5 and maybe I'd buy it.

Overall the pricing is pretty good. Lina's hair is the only thing that when I see it screams ripoff and it pisses me off so much because I want it soooo bad (my fav hero). Otherwise individual item prices/sets and other stuff isn't badly priced imo. Especially since it is all just cosmetic stuff and none of it affects the game.

 

[Chiropteran]

I'm truly done. This guy is hopeless.

It's not even about being bad, but his fundamental way of thinking is... unique. He abandons basic logic and reading comprehension.

I'm the idiot from now on to level with this person.

I *knew* there was something funny about this whole desperate attempt of yours to get me into a 1v1 game.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34887199&postcount=412

You know you have reached maximum rage when they want to 1v1 you.

 

[Chiropteran]

It's not optimal. Doing better with RoH means your opponents are trash. That's it. It in no way validates your item choice. I have probably 800 games under my belt, and I've never seen anyone open RoH. That's not a coincidence. People actually want to maximize their chances of winning.

How do you know it's so bad or "not optimal" if you have never seen it actually used in a game, not even once? It sounds like you are just repeating dogma, rather than speaking from any real experience.

 

[smackababy]

Overall the pricing is pretty good. Lina's hair is the only thing that when I see it screams ripoff and it pisses me off so much because I want it soooo bad (my fav hero). Otherwise individual item prices/sets and other stuff isn't badly priced imo. Especially since it is all just cosmetic stuff and none of it affects the game.

Cosmetic things shouldn't be that expensive. But, that could just be because I come from playing HoN. The alternate avatars are much cheaper ($5 worth of gold can easily get you two, unless they are special). Plus, almost everything can be purchased with silver coins obtained from just playing the game.

The Lina equiv in HoN (Pyromancer) has a female skin that is very similar to Lina that cost like 25 silver. It has fiery hair and you start with enough silver to buy it.

 

[smackababy]

How do you know it's so bad or "not optimal" if you have never seen it actually used in a game, not even once? It sounds like you are just repeating dogma, rather than speaking from any real experience.

I have already explained why only health regen is bad. You just ignore it.

 

[KaOTiK]

Yeah, it is rather annoying. For $50 in HoN, I can get enough coins to buy an announcer, taunt, a special taunt, and like 4 or 5 alt avatars. But in Dota, I get a single reskin and maybe a courier...

Exaggerate much? Nearly all the announcers are $10, outfits are $6-$14, and couriers are $8-$15.

 

[Chiropteran]

Overall the pricing is pretty good.

It's actually almost NEVER worth buying anything from the shop. You can get almost anything from trading or buying from players for less than the shop prices, even treasure chest keys.

I think the only exception is a set that was later discontinued, which shot up in value due to being so rare.