the United States must not permit the U.N., with its terrible record to ruin Iraq.

[0roo0roo]

The United States must not permit the U.N., with its terrible record in the Balkans, among the Palestinians, in Africa, in Cambodia, and elsewhere, to inflict its incompetence and neuroses on the people of Iraq. Iraq is fighting for its freedom, after the long brutalization it has endured. America the liberator must prove that we meant what we said about the freedom and prosperity of the Iraqi people--while the U.N., the E.U., and their associates preferred the status quo. Iraq deserves better--and so do we, for the sacrifices we shall have borne. The first step is to recognize what not to do in postwar Iraq. And the name of that tragedy is Kosovo. interesting article on UN and iraq

i'm sure you can find a shorter article listing the UN's failures .. cambodia etc etc etc. u get false image of the UN as some successful nation builder from the media

 

[HappyPuppy]

I want the UN involved. This can't be something we do by ourselves. The whole world has to see this in a positive light and if we keep it to ourselves we will be accused of empire building.

 

[0roo0roo]

like the empire building done in south korea/germany/france?

the US atleast has a record of creating democracies, however ungrateful they are. the UN's true record involving brutal governments is various levels of failure.

 

[Kadarin]

I would like to see the UN involved on the humanitarian level, but I believe the Coalition should work with the various Iraqi factions to put together an effective federalized government. Bringing the UN in, with the varied and contrary interests of France, Germany, Russia, and China would not be a good idea, as France would likely veto or otherwise work against anything meaningful.

 

[Pocket]

Right on 0roo0roo. Except I think the U.N. should have to front the bill for reconstruction. It's the least they could do.

 

[NesuD]

UN has to have some kind of role. As i hear it Bush and his advisors want it limited to humanitarian missions only. I think that sounds about right. The UN has proven that it is unable to take decisive action when required so i don't beleive it can be trusted with anything more than a humanitarian role.

 

[iwearnosox]

F the U.N. We have liberated Iraq, we will prove our intentions in the coming months. We will install a democratic government for the people and get out of dodge. The U.N. had its chance.

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: iwearnosox
F the U.N. We have liberated Iraq, we will prove our intentions in the coming months. We will install a democratic government for the people and get out of dodge. The U.N. had its chance.

What are you talking about?
It was your country that snuffed the U.N. Now they're willing to look beyond that and play a role in a war they didn't believe was right.
Any help is good help, and the U.N. has the best experience possible for this type of situation.

 

[Greyd]

Originally posted by: Phuz

Originally posted by: iwearnosox
F the U.N. We have liberated Iraq, we will prove our intentions in the coming months. We will install a democratic government for the people and get out of dodge. The U.N. had its chance.

What are you talking about?
It was your country that snuffed the U.N. Now they're willing to look beyond that and play a role in a war they didn't believe was right.
Any help is good help, and the U.N. has the best experience possible for this type of situation.

You don't SERIOUSLY believe the UN didn't take part in the war because they thought it wasn't right, do you? Think money....power instead.

Any help is NOT good help, especially in this situation.

 

[Greyd]

Originally posted by: NesuD
UN has to have some kind of role. As i hear it Bush and his advisors want it limited to humanitarian missions only. I think that sounds about right. The UN has proven that it is unable to take decisive action when required so i don't beleive it can be trusted with anything more than a humanitarian role.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Armoth]

The UN is pretty much emasculated right now. It's leadership is questionable at best. If they are going to come in and be like "We were with you all the way, let's rebuild Iraq together and make everybody happy!" That's bull. The UN should have done something about Iraq long ago, even when Clinton didn't do jack. I think Japan was pleased with how their country turned out after WWII. I think that the UN can help somewhat, but I seriously doubt that they can/should have a primary role in rebuilding Iraq. I think the country would be better off with other non-profit aid organizations coming in and helping to restore things.

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: Greyd

Originally posted by: Phuz

Originally posted by: iwearnosox
F the U.N. We have liberated Iraq, we will prove our intentions in the coming months. We will install a democratic government for the people and get out of dodge. The U.N. had its chance.

What are you talking about?
It was your country that snuffed the U.N. Now they're willing to look beyond that and play a role in a war they didn't believe was right.
Any help is good help, and the U.N. has the best experience possible for this type of situation.

You don't SERIOUSLY believe the UN didn't take part in the war because they thought it wasn't right, do you? Think money....power instead.

Any help is NOT good help, especially in this situation.

You're logic is seriously flawed.
Ok.. I'll think about money and power... how about the large sums of money and power it is going to cost the U.S/Britain to rehabilitate a post-war Iraq.
Even if you DESPISE the U.N., its still someone else to split the bill with. Not to mention there is less chance of further confrontation with U.N. / Peace Keeping forces occupying post-war Iraq than the Coalition.

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: Armoth
The UN is pretty much emasculated right now. It's leadership is questionable at best. If they are going to come in and be like "We were with you all the way, let's rebuild Iraq together and make everybody happy!" That's bull. The UN should have done something about Iraq long ago, even when Clinton didn't do jack. I think Japan was pleased with how their country turned out after WWII. I think that the UN can help somewhat, but I seriously doubt that they can/should have a primary role in rebuilding Iraq. I think the country would be better off with other non-profit aid organizations coming in and helping to restore things.

Sorry, but maybe people think that American leadership is "questionable at best". The U.N. not approving military action on Iraq and the U.N. helping a country after a war are two VERY different situations. It doesn't matter. That fact that they are still willing to provide a humanitarian/peace keeping role in Iraq after being pushed aside is a GOOD thing.

Who cares who has what roles, as long as it all gets done. You're not doing the U.N. any favours be 'letting them' have a role and help clean up the country.


:disgust:

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
I want the UN involved. This can't be something we do by ourselves. The whole world has to see this in a positive light and if we keep it to ourselves we will be accused of empire building.

Just like the Arab world saw the whole situation in the "proper way", we would cosnult them but they are still in shock from seeing the throngs of cheering Iraqis show them how "enlightened" they and "the rest of the world" were...

I will take our historical record over the UN's anyday, just another chance to show the world how to do things right.

 

[Phuz]

I will take our historical record over the UN's anyday, just another chance to show the world how to do things right.

aaaaahahahahahahahaha.

 

[UltraQuiet]

I want the UN involved. This can't be something we do by ourselves. The whole world has to see this in a positive light and if we keep it to ourselves we will be accused of empire building.

Agreed. It would be another huge political mistake to exclude the UN from this process. There are fences to be mended and this is how you start mending them.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

I want the UN involved. This can't be something we do by ourselves. The whole world has to see this in a positive light and if we keep it to ourselves we will be accused of empire building.

Agreed. It would be another huge political mistake to exclude the UN from this process. There are fences to be mended and this is how you start mending them.

Have you not noticed the Russians kissing our butt? Do you think the Chineese are going to jeapordize the billions our business dump into their economy, which they desperately need?
The German economy is a joke. The US does not need to cater to a FEW countries who need us far more than we need them.

I would point out our track record in Japan and Europe in ww2, what in comparision can you suggest the UN has done that was nearly as successfull?

 

[Alistar7]

Those are good comparitive examples, thank you, now I understand your need to waste an entire post to respond to my point with the well thought out response of:


aaaaahahahahahahahaha.

We need people like you involved closely with the process...

 

[Alistar7]

My bad, I guess I didn't give you enough time, I know how you "UN" types are, I will check back in 12 years to see if you came up with anything by then...

In the meantime take a few and educate yourself over what our govt. is doing in Afghainstan.

What is the UN doing?

 

[UltraQuiet]

Have you not noticed the Russians kissing our butt? Do you think the Chineese are going to jeapordize the billions our business dump into their economy, which they desperately need?
The German economy is a joke. The US does not need to cater to a FEW countries who need us far more than we need them.

The last sentence is a joke right?

I would point out our track record in Japan and Europe in ww2, what in comparision can you suggest the UN has done that was nearly as successfull?

The comparison to WWII is asinine. WWII was fought with a wide spread coalition (you know, the allies) who realized that not only did they need to be stopped, the gov'ts would have to be changed. We do not have the luxury in this case. If we do this alone we will be seen as the imperialist that many already believe we are. We do not live in vaccuum. We need them as much as they need us. To think otherwise is indicative of a myopic, ignorant worldview that does not even warrant the most cursory examination or a response. Please keep that in mind before you post again.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
My bad, I guess I didn't give you enough time, I know how you "UN" types are, I will check back in 12 years to see if you came up with anything by then...

In the meantime take a few and educate yourself over what our govt. is doing in Afghainstan.

What is the UN doing?

Well, this is good to see!

 

[Alistar7]

No that last sentecne was not a joke, please explain to me why we need to cater to France, Germany, Russia, and China.. What do they provide to our economy or security that we could not find someplace else. Where would you suggest Russia and China are going to replace the billions we contirbute to their economies? Why are THEY the ones extending the olive branch if we need them just as much as they need us?

There are 50 countires in the coalition, hardly going it "alone" as you like to suggest.

What Govt. in ww2 other than Germany needed to be changed after the war in Europe? We not only have the luxury, we have the full support of the Iraqi people. I would think their opinion shows you how far off those that opposed were from the correct interpretation of the situation, they wanted no solution which would have removed Saddam from power. Now that we know how grossly "wrong" their judgements were we should ask for their opinions again? I think we obviously have a better understanding.

Do you even know about the financial apsects involving those countires and Iraq. If you don't understand this you don't understand their true motive to opposition. Please don't suggest it had anything to do with their belief on the need for UN approval, they signed the same resoltuions and looked the other way while their defense comapnies sold Iraq banned weapons.

What examples of successfull UN rebuilding would you suggest rival our efforts in Japan even? I must have missed those the first time.

Who cares if other countries call us imperialist, their claims do not make it the truth, what evidence is there to prove this, none.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Alistar7
My bad, I guess I didn't give you enough time, I know how you "UN" types are, I will check back in 12 years to see if you came up with anything by then...

In the meantime take a few and educate yourself over what our govt. is doing in Afghainstan.

What is the UN doing?

Well, this is good to see!

Efforts like these have already been underway in Iraq since week 1 and are expected to be accomplished much faster in this case for obvious reasons.

 

[jjones]

I think the UN must have a role but that role should be limited to humanitarian relief and possibly peacekeeping forces to assist coalition forces. The humanitarian effort I think is a given, the reason I would like some peacekeeping forces involved, if they can be integrated successfully with coalition forces, is it would help give the appearance that this is more of a worldwide effort, which may relieve some tensions about US occupation during the interim period.

But in any case, except for humanitarian aid, it should be the coalition calling the shots. I don't like the idea of the UN's rule by commitee setting up an Iraqi government. That, to me, is likely doomed to failure. I honestly do not think that with all of the competing interests that make up the UN, they can successfully lead Iraq in the direction of equitable self-rule. There are too many conflicting interests that do not want to see a successful Iraq.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually I think the UN can help with humanitatian assistance, Peace Keepers to help Police the cities until a local Police Force can be set up and as a buffer between opposing factions like the Kurds and the Iraqi's. Also the French could help with rebuilding the Sanitation Dept.