The UK Handgun Ban is so effective...

[Nebor]

That subjects are now growing their own firearms in their home gardens!
http://www.expressandstar.com/...-loaded-gun-in-garden/

Go-go gadget gun control. :laugh:

 

[jpeyton]

Looking over this list, it looks like UK gun control is working great.

I can name two big US school shootings in the last year alone; NIU and VATech. Has there even been one in the UK in the last decade?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Looking over this list, it looks like UK gun control is working great.

I can name two big US school shootings in the last year alone; NIU and VATech. Has there even been one in the UK in the last decade?

There was one shooting per decade BEFORE the ban went into effect.

Correlation is not causation.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Looking over this list, it looks like UK gun control is working great.

I can name two big US school shootings in the last year alone; NIU and VATech. Has there even been one in the UK in the last decade?

As I understand it, both NIU and Virginia Tech had even stricter gun control laws than the UK.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There was one shooting per decade BEFORE the ban went into effect.

Correlation is not causation.

Chalk that up to the UK not having a "gun culture" in the first place.

In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings), a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon. The homicide rate for London was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings).

By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms. New York City, with a population size similar to London (over 8 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There was one shooting per decade BEFORE the ban went into effect.

Correlation is not causation.

Chalk that up to the UK not having a "gun culture" in the first place.

In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings), a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon. The homicide rate for London was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings).

By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms. New York City, with a population size similar to London (over 8 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.

I'm not sure which POV you're arguing for and against. This alone should tell you that the problem is not guns, its people.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There was one shooting per decade BEFORE the ban went into effect.

Correlation is not causation.

Chalk that up to the UK not having a "gun culture" in the first place.

In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings), a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon. The homicide rate for London was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings).

By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms. New York City, with a population size similar to London (over 8 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.

I'm not sure which POV you're arguing for and against. This alone should tell you that the problem is not guns, its people.

Really? It's both actually, at least for the US.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Nebor
That subjects are now growing their own firearms in their home gardens!
http://www.expressandstar.com/...-loaded-gun-in-garden/

Go-go gadget gun control. :laugh:

if only someone had had a gun to shoot the gun that the boys found ..you can ban guns but then only little boys who search through gardens will have them they go to any length

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There was one shooting per decade BEFORE the ban went into effect.

Correlation is not causation.

Chalk that up to the UK not having a "gun culture" in the first place.

In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings), a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon. The homicide rate for London was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings).

By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms. New York City, with a population size similar to London (over 8 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.

The UK police is notorious for fibbing its crime numbers. Maybe the info is correct, but it's something to consider.

 

[StageLeft]

I want to hate guns' prevalence in the US and do, but it seems that enough places have initiated gun bans without a clear benefit that it's really hard to argue that taking a culture and making legal ownership much harder has an immediate benefit or even one within a few years. Who knows what would happen several decades down the road, but it's a bit like pandora's box in that when opened you cannot close it.

The UK may very well have lower murder rates than the US. I bet it does. I bet also that it has higher rates of mugging and home invasions. Crime rates are influenced by culture as well. The home invasion rate in the US is really not bad at all. I don't know if it's because of guns or not, but when looking at a picture of crime in a country one needs to consider rape, assault, home invasions, murder, etc. From what I have seen, the US is substantially a safer place to live than the UK. Guns don't really help or hurt this because in reality the average joe will never come upon a drawn gun in either country and the comparitively high murder rates in the US are still "fairly low" not to mention a great deal are the result of drug wars or among people who those of us on anandtech will never meet (e.g., we don't hang around trash, most likely).

 

[punchkin]

The countries that ban guns tend to have lower murder rates. That's one thing. I'd also like to point out that if guns were banned here, we too would no longer have a gun culture.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Looking over this list, it looks like UK gun control is working great.

I can name two big US school shootings in the last year alone; NIU and VATech. Has there even been one in the UK in the last decade?

Wait, those are gun free zones. How can there be a shooting in a place where people are banned from having guns?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I want to hate guns' prevalence in the US and do, but it seems that enough places have initiated gun bans without a clear benefit that it's really hard to argue that taking a culture and making legal ownership much harder has an immediate benefit or even one within a few years. Who knows what would happen several decades down the road, but it's a bit like pandora's box in that when opened you cannot close it.

The UK may very well have lower murder rates than the US. I bet it does. I bet also that it has higher rates of mugging and home invasions. Crime rates are influenced by culture as well. The home invasion rate in the US is really not bad at all. I don't know if it's because of guns or not, but when looking at a picture of crime in a country one needs to consider rape, assault, home invasions, murder, etc. From what I have seen, the US is substantially a safer place to live than the UK. Guns don't really help or hurt this because in reality the average joe will never come upon a drawn gun in either country and the comparitively high murder rates in the US are still "fairly low" not to mention a great deal are the result of drug wars or among people who those of us on anandtech will never meet (e.g., we don't hang around trash, most likely).

Problem is you can't ban guns in one very small part yet have it free every where else. It just won't work.
Like telling your kids the kitchen is candy free zone. OK but you never banned it from the living room.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BoberFett
There was one shooting per decade BEFORE the ban went into effect.

Correlation is not causation.

Chalk that up to the UK not having a "gun culture" in the first place.

In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings), a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon. The homicide rate for London was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings).

By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms. New York City, with a population size similar to London (over 8 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.

The UK police is notorious for fibbing its crime numbers. Maybe the info is correct, but it's something to consider.

The UK assault rate is very high IIRC. Well, London at least.
You may not die in London, but you're pretty likely to get beaten/mugged.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Originally posted by: punchkin
The countries that ban guns tend to have lower murder rates. That's one thing. I'd also like to point out that if guns were banned here, we too would no longer have a gun culture.

Actually, you are completely wrong about this. If guns were banned here we would have a Civil War. People don't like getting their rights trampled on or taken away. There are a lot of firm believers in the second amendment. Many are armed. Banning guns won't make them magically go away, it will incite revolt.

EDIT: On second read of your post, I think you were probably being sarcastic or joking. Is my sacrasm meter working? Or were you actually being serious?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: punchkin
The countries that ban guns tend to have lower murder rates. That's one thing. I'd also like to point out that if guns were banned here, we too would no longer have a gun culture.

No, they tend to have lower gun crime rates. Their overall murder and crime rates remain unchanged. And your last sentence is just idiotic idealist nonsense. If guns were banned here, we would still have a gun culture, just an illegal one.

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
EDIT: On second read of your post, I think you were probably being sarcastic or joking. Is my sacrasm meter working? Or were you actually being serious?

Oh no, he's serious. Punchkin is so authoritarian he makes Stalin look like a libertarian dreamer. He automatically assumes that every law is 100% successful the moment the ink is dry on the bill.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: punchkin
The countries that ban guns tend to have lower murder rates.

not true.

That's one thing. I'd also like to point out that if guns were banned here, we too would no longer have a gun culture.

You'd get a frontrow seat to the second U.S. Civil War. It would end VERY quickly, and with a lot of dead anti-gun folk.

Go ahead, come for my guns...

 

[QuantumPion]

I think everyone here should take this poll and post their results:

http://www.a-human-right.com/views2.html

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
I think everyone here should take this poll and post their results:

http://www.a-human-right.com/views2.html

I don't really care for a lot of the answers on those.

 

[Nebor]

If you guys read some of the articles detailing crimes in the UK, you'll find hundreds of comments below each one. These comments are written by English people decrying their government for taking away their guns, then failing to protect them. There are many people saying they are just waiting for their papers to come through so they can leave England behind, as it has become a crime haven.

Also read any number of English Police blogs that are online. They'll all tell you that crime in England is the worst it's ever been. The government continually changes the way they measure crime in order to minimize it's appearance.

 

[MrMajestyk]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Looking over this list, it looks like UK gun control is working great.

I can name two big US school shootings in the last year alone; NIU and VATech. Has there even been one in the UK in the last decade?

Just seen it's 12th annerversary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

There just seems to be more use of guns here in the UK in the last few years.
Every week there's a shooting somewhere. For a country where firearms are banned, that's a worry.
One anomoly was the government banned the ownership of firearms but not replica/disabled firearms which can then be enabled.

 

[desy]

If you can't ban guns on a puny Island , how the hell are you on a whole continent?

 

[theeedude]

If it was USA, gun nuts would be defending this boy's right to bear arms.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: senseamp
If it was USA, gun nuts would be defending this boy's right to bear arms.

:roll:

 

[rikadik]

People always fail to realise that the UK and the US are different places.

I have little doubt that legalising handguns in the UK at the moment would be disastrous. However I also feel that banning handguns in the US wouldn't achieve a lot given the gun culture, constitutional arrangements and high number of guns in circulation.

There is not one solution for every country.