The U.S. vs. China

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
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Originally posted by: amdfanboy
Sadly, I'm afraid it will happen sooner or later.

Our missles and air superiority would crush them.

if the sent an invasion for by sea, our subs would take them out.

if by land, bombs...nukes if necessary.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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economically, this country would be in ruins. I mean when you think of everything made there, my god would we be in bad shape. Goodbyeee Walmart

I'm not exactly sure what your title is in regards too either. Whether is be from an economic standpoint, or a military. Both countries posses the capability to hit each other anywhere, anytime. No winners there. If you're talking about Economically. China has the capability to crush the US.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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our military is superior, but we could never peacefully occupy China nor launch a successful ground campaign. it's too big and there's way too many people. we'd be in for several decades of vietnam-style fighting.
 

AFB

Lifer
Jan 10, 2004
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Originally posted by: rickn
economically, this country would be in ruins. I mean when you think of everything made there, my god would we be in bad shape. Goodbyeee Walmart

I'm not exactly sure what your title is in regards too either. Whether is be from an economic standpoint, or a military. Both countries posses the capability to hit each other anywhere, anytime. No winners there. If you're talking about Economically. China has the capability to crush the US.

A combination
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
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as long as all their military systems run on pirated windows, we will win hands down
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
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US would eleminentant the china navy and air force but ground troops would have a very hard time getting a bench head and stay in country.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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I think you need to identify the theater of operations.

The likely scenario would be over Tawain? Mostly an air and sea war? We'd win, realtively handily. I don't think China would be willing to go nuclear with us, since we'd survive an attack against them, but they wouldn't against us. No MAD there...

We'd have an awful tough time fighting them on land, but our forces aren't really arrayed anywhere against them, except in Korea. In that scenario, we'd probably beat them back, but couldn't really advance. Forget about an invasion style war.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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I believe China only has tens of missiles. Perhaps more now but a couple years ago China had like seven missiles or so if I recall correctly. We could turn China into glass essentially in a first strike and maybe only lose a few cities if even (do they even have early warning detection). It seems like people overestimate some countries non-traditional capabilities. It's not THAT easy to strike another continent with nukes right now. (This happened with Iraq I believe, people didn't understand they had no way of striking us).

Now as for the future, that's a whole 'nother matter. I think eventually we will need to join resources with the Europeans if there is ever a clash. But that's just crystal ball reading and too far into the future.

Now if you're talking traditional I don't think the US could occupy China EVER. We could perhaps bring their economy to its knees but even then that would require a lot of procurement with Iraq going on. Look at Korea, there's no way we could take on their numbers in a conventional war for too long in an open theater. But I think we could defend Taiwan though. But man that would require mobilization to go after the mainland and then we wouldn't be successful.
 

ReiAyanami

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Sep 24, 2002
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scenario: each country is hungry for resources and china decides unilaterally to invade the middle east, and occupy it. it'd be easy for them since they have too many people and their domestic policy is focused on REDUCING their own population.

us would be devastated instantly from fuel shortages. so as long as china doesn't touch the oil US would win, but the moment they do US is obliterated and urban society ends.
 

Abraxas

Golden Member
Oct 26, 2004
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I'll grant that much, if it stays in Taiwan, both sides will be devestated but the US would have a slight edge, an actual war with all of China though, and I'll stick with my earlier answer.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Assuming you could neutralize the Chinese nuclear deterrent, the US wins hands down outside of actually landing troops in mainland China.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
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I don't see how anyone would WIN that confrontation. I think it's sick we even have to discuss it. We would lose about ever major city on the west coast (including silicon valley), and alot of the midwest in a nuke fight, not to mention fallout over everything else.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Originally posted by: alchemize
I think you need to identify the theater of operations.

The likely scenario would be over Tawain? Mostly an air and sea war? We'd win, realtively handily. I don't think China would be willing to go nuclear with us, since we'd survive an attack against them, but they wouldn't against us. No MAD there...

We'd have an awful tough time fighting them on land, but our forces aren't really arrayed anywhere against them, except in Korea. In that scenario, we'd probably beat them back, but couldn't really advance. Forget about an invasion style war.


The US has more bombs, but all it takes is the Chinese to drop one in downtown LA and Times Square, and you have a whole lotte dead people. Then when the US retaliates, and blows to bits China, all the fallout flies right over Japan, then you got many dead and sick Japanese. Like it was already pointed out TWICE, both are nuclear powers, it would not be wise to ever play those cards.
 

Tylanner

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2004
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Have you seen the gargantuan nuclear capable missiles coming out of US Lockheed factories? Worst comes to worst, they will NOT win.


This LINK, albeit a bit dated, attempts to cover the scenario.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
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USA would win a conventional war EASILY, and I mean easily. A nuclear war would be devistating to both sides.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
scenario: each country is hungry for resources and china decides unilaterally to invade the middle east, and occupy it. it'd be easy for them since they have too many people and their domestic policy is focused on REDUCING their own population.

us would be devastated instantly from fuel shortages. so as long as china doesn't touch the oil US would win, but the moment they do US is obliterated and urban society ends.

the US could impose gas rationing at home, and open up the petro reserves to fuel the military. we would expel the Chinese out of the middle east quite easily (especially considering that their forces would already have been substantially weakened after trampling through Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Isreal, and Egypt.
 

rickn

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
I believe China only has tens of missiles. Perhaps more now but a couple years ago China had like seven missiles or so if I recall correctly. We could turn China into glass essentially in a first strike and maybe only lose a few cities if even (do they even have early warning detection). It seems like people overestimate some countries non-traditional capabilities. It's not THAT easy to strike another continent with nukes right now. (This happened with Iraq I believe, people didn't understand they had no way of striking us).

Now as for the future, that's a whole 'nother matter. I think eventually we will need to join resources with the Europeans if there is ever a clash. But that's just crystal ball reading and too far into the future.

Now if you're talking traditional I don't think the US could occupy China EVER. We could perhaps bring their economy to its knees but even then that would require a lot of procurement with Iraq going on. Look at Korea, there's no way we could take on their numbers in a conventional war for too long in an open theater. But I think we could defend Taiwan though. But man that would require mobilization to go after the mainland and then we wouldn't be successful.

bout 5yrs ago or so they were estimated to have around 20-30 ICBM's, capable of hitting almost anywhere in the US. I'd imagine probably built more since then.
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
scenario: each country is hungry for resources and china decides unilaterally to invade the middle east, and occupy it. it'd be easy for them since they have too many people and their domestic policy is focused on REDUCING their own population.

us would be devastated instantly from fuel shortages. so as long as china doesn't touch the oil US would win, but the moment they do US is obliterated and urban society ends.

Most of US oil is wasted and we get alot of oil from the North and soth americia. We could easly kick china out of the middle east. China has no way to transport troops and supply. And there supply lines would be open to attack by air or sea.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
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Besides what makes you so sure it'd just be China v. USA, and no one else would get involved? I fear this one may take the whole planet down with it.

Remeber what Einstien said about WW IV?
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: rickn
bout 5yrs ago or so they were estimated to have around 20-30 ICBM's, capable of hitting almost anywhere in the US. I'd imagine probably built more since then.

Right. I still think compared to thousands of US weapons we could deal with them pretty nicely in a first strike. Sure, it would hurt, but we would "win." Unlike with the Soviet Union where both sides would have lost.


Anyway, I read amdfanboy's followups asking about economics too.

China will one day surpass the US in economic (and then probably military) might absent something very unexpected. There is no reason to think capitalism can't scale to a billion and when that happens we will be dwarfed, even with massive immigration on our part. Same goes for India. It might take time but it's going to happen...This is a reason why we can't just have the world being an everyone-for-himself-UNless realpolitik nightmare. When we are the toughest around we will need to cooperate and have int'l institutions that can keep people in line. Thanks to GWB, the task of making that a reality will be harder today then it was five years ago.
 

Abraxas

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Oct 26, 2004
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