I hate getting coffee at McD because it is too hot. If I am inside I will add some ice so I can drink it with the meal.
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
How is that even the same thing?
If I caused an accident and got killed or seriously hurt, then it's my fault. If somebody else caused the accident, it's their fault.
By the way, Ford really DID NOT kill that many people. Straight from wikipedia
"More recently, a well-known 1991 law review paper by Gary Schwartz [2], argued that the case against the Pinto was less clear-cut than commonly supposed. Only 27 people ever died in Pinto fires. Given the Pinto's production figures (over 2 million built), this was no worse than typical for the time, and far less than the "hundreds" claimed by the consumer safety advocates whose allegations are largely responsible for the reputation of the vehicle. Schwartz argued that the car was no more fire-prone than other cars of the time, and that the supposed "smoking gun" document showing Ford's callousness actually referred to the auto industry in general rather than the Pinto specifically."
Besides, those accidents only happened as a result of human error. The cars themselves simply would not explode or kill people without a reason.
You said we live in a pretty damn safe world, thats because of lawsuits. 27 is too many.
Wow... you tried the Pinto argument earlier and got owned. Poor memory or are you just a pot head?[/quote]
Post the link to that, NOW!
[/quote]
Amused, wrong again.
We may disagree on opinions but you are constantly wrong on facts.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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A complaint rate of 1 in 24 million is extremely low. So low that few products that can cause injury have lower rates... including simple five gallon buckets. The 700 complaint argument is moot. Once put into context it actually makes the coffee look safe.
It is well known that the insurance company dropped the ball. It was hardly a "competent" defense.
I never said I oppose lawsuits. Nice try.
Hot water out of a faucet and hot food and drinks are entirely different and yet another irrelevant and absurd argument from you. I guarantee that same nursing home serves food and drinks hotter than 110 degrees.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Post the link to that, NOW!
[/quote]
Amused, wrong again.
We may disagree on opinions but you are constantly wrong on facts.
[/quote]
Well, it was posted in this thread already and destroyed. I figured it was you. If it wasn't I'm rather shocked that two people would make such an absurd comparison and logical fallacy.
"Constantly wrong? With the exception of settlements please post one fact I have wrong.
You have no facts. In fact, you started debating this topic with NO more info than that in the propaganda piece posted by the OP. You had NO independent info on this case and pulled piss poor arguments out of your ass. And you try to turn that around on me?
Wow...
Thanks for the help, but Amused accused me of posting this arguement earlier and being a pot head....he is wrong on both. Thats the link I was asking for.
Amused, wrong again.
We may disagree on opinions but you are constantly wrong on facts.
[/quote]
Well, it was posted in this thread already and destroyed. I figured it was you. If it wasn't I'm rather shocked that two people would make such an absurd comparison and logical fallacy.[/quote]
You are completely taking my arguement out of context. My reference to the Pinto was in regard to overall safety of products being attributed to lawsuits that have forced change in product defects.
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
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Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Well, it was posted in this thread already and destroyed. I figured it was you. If it wasn't I'm rather shocked that two people would make such an absurd comparison and logical fallacy.[/quote]
You are completely taking my arguement out of context. My reference to the Pinto was in regard to overall safety of products being attributed to lawsuits that have forced change in product defects.
[/quote]
180 degree holding temp is NOT a defect. It is ideal for quality coffee. The cup and lid did not fail. No defect. The only defect was in the judgement of the consumer.
Comparing the Pinto case or ANY product defect case to this is simply absurd.
You are completely taking my arguement out of context. My reference to the Pinto was in regard to overall safety of products being attributed to lawsuits that have forced change in product defects.
[/quote]
180 degree holding temp is NOT a defect. It is ideal for quality coffee. The cup and lid did not fail. No defect. The only defect was in the judgement of the consumer.
Comparing the Pinto case or ANY product defect case to this is simply absurd.[/quote]
I didnt compare the pinto case to this case. I refenced the pinto case because BlancoNino
said that "we live in a pretty damn safe world" My statement was I attributed todays safety to lawsuits of the past.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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180 degree holding temp is NOT a defect. It is ideal for quality coffee. The cup and lid did not fail. No defect. The only defect was in the judgement of the consumer.
Comparing the Pinto case or ANY product defect case to this is simply absurd.[/quote]
I didnt compare the pinto case to this case. I refenced the pinto case because BlancoNino
said that "we live in a pretty damn safe world" My statement was I attributed todays safety to lawsuits of the past.
[/quote]
Okie Dokie, but Blanco didn't mention defective products either. He spoke of properly working products that are mishandled by the customer. Had the cup or lid failed, your reference may have been valid.
We live in a pretty damn safe world because we're smarter and because we demand things to be safe. Lawsuits or even laws themselves aren't making our cars any safer, are they?
The only way we can live in a safer world is if people learn to be safe themselves. We can't keep playing the blame game.
I'm pretty happy this thread is going. Its funny to see it taken over by users who haven't argued earlier (its like new cycles) EXCEPT Amused is still going on strong. hahahaha. i thought you'd have been tired with repeating your argument through 20 pages of this thread.
Okie Dokie, but Blanco didn't mention defective products either. He spoke of properly working products that are mishandled by the customer. Had the cup or lid failed, your reference may have been valid.[/quote]
Then its agree, we both have valid points and diffent opinions. Wanna come over and play lawn darts?
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Then its agree, we both have valid points and diffent opinions. Wanna come over and play lawn darts?
[/quote]
It's very sad that the US banned lawn darts. We are the only country to do so, AFAIK. A case of appealing to the lowest common denominator.
Out of the millions of sets sold, only four kids died from obvious misuse. Meanwhile hundreds drowned in 5 gallon buckets...
And this is exactly what I mean about safety lawsuits and laws being counter-intuitive. We're trying to make everything seem perfect, so nobody takes any personal pre-cautions before doing anything. When I was a kid, my parents always double and triple warned me to watch for cars when in the street. Anymore, I see children running and playing in the street and not caring if I'm driving by. I once asked a child why she didn't care if a car was coming and she said "Because my mom told me cars were supposed to stop for me." I told her it didn't matter because if a car hit her she'd be dead.
You can't argue for personal responsibility and completely ignore corporate responsibility. Regulations are always going to be a double edged sword. They will always hinder businesses in their operations but at the same time they create longevity for their products as people will continue consuming them. It's not as simple as people need to be responsible for their actions because in this particular case, hot coffee has never translated into 3rd degree burns in people's minds. People know coffee is hot and they generall consider hot to the point where it'll burn and at most leave a light scar or blistering, not $11,000 skin grafting and eight days in a hospital. When's the last time you actually expected your coffee to be hot enough to burn that severely.
Like it's been said many times. Personal responsibility is one part of the equation but it's not the entire picture. You have to look at the balance between personal and corporate, business and consumer, etc. There aren't very many comparable examples (eg. dropping knives, pintos, etc) because they are completely different scenarios. I don't know what else to tell you other than the case was not about how silly this old lady was. It's a case trying to determine if serving beverages at near boiling temperatures when the expectation of the temperature by the general populace is significantly lower is corporate or personal responbility.
How is it their fault for serving food hot?
If you can drink it it is not too hot. It does not cause injury when used properly does it?
So some twit screws up and its their fault?
Whats next, blaming the maker of lighters for people smoking?
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
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Lawn darts are ILLEGAL? :Q
Excuse me please while I make an anonymous run to my local disposal facility.
Excuse me please while I make an anonymous run to my local disposal facility.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
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I'll jump in. McD shouldn't be found to be at fault here based on pure numbers. They sell I don't know how many MILLION cups of coffee a day, and hundreds of millions of cups per year. Compared to the number of people who manage to drink their coffee safely, they shouldn't be responsible for the .000001 that injure themselves doing the same thing. This isn't a case of a company overlooking an obvious and frequent danger.
But, exactly because it happens so infrequently they should've settled with the little old lady instead of looking like an evil corporate empire.
But, exactly because it happens so infrequently they should've settled with the little old lady instead of looking like an evil corporate empire.
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