The Truth about the Dems and their SC nominees

zendari

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May 27, 2005
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Did Clinton really let Republicans guide his decision-making?

But a look at another account of the Ginsburg case suggests that while Clinton did consult with Hatch ? just as President Bush has with some Democrats today ? Clinton's preeminent concern was making sure that, after a series of failed executive-branch nomination, members of his own party, then in the majority in the Senate, would support his nominee. And in Babbitt's case, a powerful argument against his nomination was made by a Democratic senator from Babbitt's own state.


Senate Sense & Nonsense

The Senate should focus its attention on judicial qualifications, not personal political beliefs; the Senate should engage in respectful and honest inquiry, not partisan personal attacks; and the Senate should apply the same fair process ? confirmation or rejection by majority vote ? that has existed for 214 years of our nation's history.

First, some have argued that President Bush must nominate a politically moderate justice to succeed Justice O'Connor ? in order to preserve the Court's current ideological balance. These arguments ignore the fact that judges are supposed to follow the law ? not their own personal political beliefs.

Moreover, President Clinton followed no such command when he filled his first Supreme Court vacancy. If new justices are supposed to be selected to preserve the preexisting ideological balance of the courts, President Clinton didn't appear to get the memo.

Second, some have argued that the president is required to consult with individual senators before nominating Justice O'Connor's successor. But let's be clear: There is no such requirement under either the Constitution or Senate tradition. The Constitution provides for the advice and consent of the Senate, not individual senators ? and only with respect to the appointment, not the nomination, of any federal judge.

Moreover, consultation is not co-nomination. In 1993, President Clinton consulted with the then-chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Orrin Hatch, over the temperament and qualifications ? not the political views or ideology ? of potential Supreme Court nominees

Yet it was not long ago that senators agreed that litmus tests and forced promises to politicians present serious dangers to judicial independence and the rule of law. The Senate overwhelmingly confirmed President Clinton?s nominees to the Supreme Court, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer, after they repeatedly upheld judicial tradition and ethics by refusing to answer questions about how they would rule in specific cases


It's quite clear this Democratic nonsense about "consultation" with radical leftists is a bunch of FUD meant to attempt to strip the President of his power.
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
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Zendari,

Perhaps you should have quoted "The Guardian" to make Conjur happy. Either that or 'The Weekly WOrld News". They are of the same caliber.
 

zendari

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May 27, 2005
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Sen. Cornyn is on the Judiciary committee and has substantial knowledge and experience in the matter. But attack the author because you can't say anything about his points.
 

imported_tss4

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2004
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Neither of your links seem to refute that SC nominee was chosen as a moderate that could pass a republican congress. Clearly, your own links support that Clinton chose his nominee based on the ability to get confirmed. That meant bending to the majority Republican senate.

To be absolutely honest, I would be thrilled to have someone exactly like O'Conner to replace her. She was a moderate on social policy and a little more conservative on economics. She was a very good balance and seemed to follow her ideals as defined from her understanding of the constitution as opposed to any political parties.
 

Darkhawk28

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Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: tss4
Neither of your links seem to refute that SC nominee was chosen as a moderate that could pass a republican congress. Clearly, your own links support that Clinton chose his nominee based on the ability to get confirmed. That meant bending to the majority Republican senate.

Judges by nature should be moderates.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: zendari
Sen. Cornyn is on the Judiciary committee and has substantial knowledge and experience in the matter. But attack the author because you can't say anything about his points.
Because he's a very partisan person. The first article was pretty decent and it actually, surprisingly, seemed a bit positive toward O'Connor and that Clinton was worried about the capabilities of a nominee, not their ideological leanings. Imagine that...a merit-based system!

But, you can't honestly expect two op/ed pieces from a right-wing publication to offer unbiased fact, can you? No moreso than the WSJ op/ed page or an op/ed from Mother Jones.
 

zendari

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May 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: tss4
Neither of your links seem to refute that SC nominee was chosen as a moderate that could pass a republican congress. Clearly, your own links support that Clinton chose his nominee based on the ability to get confirmed. That meant bending to the majority Republican senate.

To be absolutely honest, I would be thrilled to have someone exactly like O'Conner to replace her. She was a moderate on social policy and a little more conservative on economics. She was a very good balance and seemed to follow her ideals as defined from her understanding of the constitution as opposed to any political parties.

It was a Democratic Congress. Clinton tried to push a lunatic fringe leftist but was opposed by his own party!

The relevant passages are in the OP, and its not so much opinion as debunking the leftist FUD on how the process is run. Seems they have changed their mind in the past 12 years.

It would be great if Harry Reid gave Bush the same considerations that Orrin Hatch did instead of attacking someone for being "too convservative".
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: tss4
Neither of your links seem to refute that SC nominee was chosen as a moderate that could pass a republican congress. Clearly, your own links support that Clinton chose his nominee based on the ability to get confirmed. That meant bending to the majority Republican senate.

To be absolutely honest, I would be thrilled to have someone exactly like O'Conner to replace her. She was a moderate on social policy and a little more conservative on economics. She was a very good balance and seemed to follow her ideals as defined from her understanding of the constitution as opposed to any political parties.

It was a Democratic Congress. Clinton tried to push a lunatic fringe leftist but was opposed by his own party!

The relevant passages are in the OP, and its not so much opinion as debunking the leftist FUD on how the process is run.

The Republicans used a god-damn filibuster you moron.
 

zendari

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May 27, 2005
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Try reading the article Darkhawk.

Senators have never before employed a filibuster against a Supreme Court nomination
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: zendari
Try reading the article Darkhawk.

Senators have never before employed a filibuster against a Supreme Court nomination

Oh really..... Abe Fortas!

Oh btw, I don't read the crap from the mouth of the bastard that said he "understood why judges were being killed."
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: zendari
Try reading the article Darkhawk.

Senators have never before employed a filibuster against a Supreme Court nomination

Oh really..... Abe Fortas!

Oh btw, I don't read the crap from the mouth of the bastard that said he "understood why judges were being killed."

Oh, I'm sure you'll want proof. How about from the GD Senate website?

Filibuster Derails Supreme Court Nomination
 

imported_tss4

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: zendari
Try reading the article Darkhawk.

Senators have never before employed a filibuster against a Supreme Court nomination

Zindari, first of all cudos for expanding your OP to include more of your own commentary.

Seondly, maybe the democrats aren't quite the crazy liberals that has been stated by some of the more vocal conservatives, if they are rational enough to advise against a "lunatic fringe leftist". Lets hope the conservatives will be equally as wise.

Thirdly, we both know the conservatives were quite happy exercise thier power to advice and consent when thye didn;t control the white house. Don't be so partisan.
 

zendari

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May 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: zendari
Try reading the article Darkhawk.

Senators have never before employed a filibuster against a Supreme Court nomination

Zindari, first of all cudos for expanding your OP to include more of your own commentary.

Seondly, maybe the democrats aren't quite the crazy liberals that has been stated by some of the more vocal conservatives, if they are rational enough to advise against a "lunatic fringe leftist". Lets hope the conservatives will be equally as wise.

Thirdly, we both know the conservatives were quite happy exercise thier power to advice and consent when thye didn;t control the white house. Don't be so partisan.

It would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" didn't start off with threats the way Ted Kennedy did, and were instead more cooperative like Orrin Hatch.

It would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" was actually worried about (in conjurs own words) the capabilities of a nominee and not their ideological leanings, but people like Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York don't feel the same way about it. The Republicans in 1994 didn't see the need for such intensive interrogation.

If would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" includes holding them to their agreement made a few weeks ago, but Sen. Joe Biden seems to want to bring out the filibuster on the same people whom were in the original agreement! :laugh: Comical.

But alas, as you and I and everyone knows, this isn't the Democratic Party of 1994. How the mighty have fallen.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: zendari
Try reading the article Darkhawk.

Senators have never before employed a filibuster against a Supreme Court nomination

Zindari, first of all cudos for expanding your OP to include more of your own commentary.

Seondly, maybe the democrats aren't quite the crazy liberals that has been stated by some of the more vocal conservatives, if they are rational enough to advise against a "lunatic fringe leftist". Lets hope the conservatives will be equally as wise.

Thirdly, we both know the conservatives were quite happy exercise thier power to advice and consent when thye didn;t control the white house. Don't be so partisan.

It would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" didn't start off with threats the way Ted Kennedy did, and were instead more cooperative like Orrin Hatch.

It would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" was actually worried about (in conjurs own words) the capabilities of a nominee and not their ideological leanings, but people like Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York don't feel the same way about it. The Republicans in 1994 didn't see the need for such intensive interrogation.

If would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" includes holding them to their agreement made a few weeks ago, but Sen. Joe Biden seems to want to bring out the filibuster on the same people whom were in the original agreement! :laugh: Comical.

But alas, as you and I and everyone knows, this isn't the Democratic Party of 1994. How the mighty have fallen.
I agree the Dems came out kinda harsh after the resignation announcment but you have to consider the influence being wielded by the radical clerics and other religious extremists (like Dobson)
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: zendari
It would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" didn't start off with threats the way Ted Kennedy did, and were instead more cooperative like Orrin Hatch.

It would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" was actually worried about (in conjurs own words) the capabilities of a nominee and not their ideological leanings, but people like Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York don't feel the same way about it. The Republicans in 1994 didn't see the need for such intensive interrogation.

If would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" includes holding them to their agreement made a few weeks ago, but Sen. Joe Biden seems to want to bring out the filibuster on the same people whom were in the original agreement! :laugh: Comical.

But alas, as you and I and everyone knows, this isn't the Democratic Party of 1994. How the mighty have fallen.
I agree the Dems came out kinda harsh after the resignation announcment but you have to consider the influence being wielded by the radical clerics and other religious extremists (like Dobson)

Is that how they plan to "unite, not divide" the country?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: zendari
It would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" didn't start off with threats the way Ted Kennedy did, and were instead more cooperative like Orrin Hatch.

It would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" was actually worried about (in conjurs own words) the capabilities of a nominee and not their ideological leanings, but people like Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York don't feel the same way about it. The Republicans in 1994 didn't see the need for such intensive interrogation.

If would be nice if the Dems "advising and consenting" includes holding them to their agreement made a few weeks ago, but Sen. Joe Biden seems to want to bring out the filibuster on the same people whom were in the original agreement! :laugh: Comical.

But alas, as you and I and everyone knows, this isn't the Democratic Party of 1994. How the mighty have fallen.
I agree the Dems came out kinda harsh after the resignation announcment but you have to consider the influence being wielded by the radical clerics and other religious extremists (like Dobson)
Is that how they plan to "unite, not divide" the country?
It goes both ways. Do you support asshats like Dobson and Sen. Frist? Please tell me you don't.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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Originally posted by: zendari
Sen. Cornyn is on the Judiciary committee and has substantial knowledge and experience in the matter. But attack the author because you can't say anything about his points.


Did a US Senator really say this ??

"It's quite clear this Democratic nonsense about "consultation" with radical leftists is a bunch of FUD meant to attempt to strip the President of his power."


Does not sound very senatorial..


as far as the part the Senator actually wrote, what point does any Democratic Senator disagree with ?

 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
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He certainly went overboard with the schiavo garbage. But Frist isn't calling out the President, telling him to be a "uniter, not a divider", then following up with this BS is he?
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
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Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: tss4
Neither of your links seem to refute that SC nominee was chosen as a moderate that could pass a republican congress. Clearly, your own links support that Clinton chose his nominee based on the ability to get confirmed. That meant bending to the majority Republican senate.

To be absolutely honest, I would be thrilled to have someone exactly like O'Conner to replace her. She was a moderate on social policy and a little more conservative on economics. She was a very good balance and seemed to follow her ideals as defined from her understanding of the constitution as opposed to any political parties.

It was a Democratic Congress. Clinton tried to push a lunatic fringe leftist but was opposed by his own party!

The relevant passages are in the OP, and its not so much opinion as debunking the leftist FUD on how the process is run.

The Republicans used a god-damn filibuster you moron.
name calling.... that'll win you friends and influence people. :roll:

 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
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0
Originally posted by: Tom
Originally posted by: zendari
Sen. Cornyn is on the Judiciary committee and has substantial knowledge and experience in the matter. But attack the author because you can't say anything about his points.


Did a US Senator really say this ??

"It's quite clear this Democratic nonsense about "consultation" with radical leftists is a bunch of FUD meant to attempt to strip the President of his power."


Does not sound very senatorial..


as far as the part the Senator actually wrote, what point does any Democratic Senator disagree with ?

The Democrats seem to think the candidates personal opinions are of importance, as evidenced by their filibuster on a highly qualified candidate of Priscilla Owen and their insistence on questioning the candidates personal views. They also think they have more input into the process than the Republicans.
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
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Is Bush going to consult with Pat Leahy, ranking minority member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, like Clinton did with Hatch??

From Hatch's biography
link
Our conversation moved to other potential candidates. I asked whether he had considered Judge Stephen Breyer of the First Circuit Court of Appeals or Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the District of Columbia Court of Appeals. President Clinton indicated he had heard Breyer?s name but had not thought about Judge Ginsberg.

So I assume Bush will talk with Leahy and will nominate whoever Leahy recommends.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: zendari
The Democrats seem to think the candidates personal opinions are of importance, as evidenced by their filibuster on a highly qualified candidate of Priscilla Owen and their insistence on questioning the candidates personal views. They also think they have more input into the process than the Republicans.
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
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Text

Justice Owen was first elected to the Texas Supreme Court in 1994after 17 years as a commercial litigator at Andrews & Kurth, LLP. Owen earned her undergraduate and law
degrees at Baylor University and has been rated ?well qualified? by the
American Bar Association.

Her rulings on abortion, however, are the primary reason for the vigorous opposition to her nomination by pro-choice advocates.


Yup, leave it to the Dems to ignore the capabiliites of a nominee and focus on their ideological leanings.