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The truth about a few ‘facts'

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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Link

Link contains advance knowledge of the stuff that will probably come out sideways tonight

Taxes
Jobs
Medicare
Health care
Deficit
Energy
Immigration

Probably Lies, more lies and more dam lies from both sides or the attempt to twist things into lies.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
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The debates generally come down to presence more than content. Obama is an extremely polished debater. Romney generally comes across as stiff. I think that's going to weigh on people far more than any facts or figures that get tossed out. It's a sad reality that we tend to vote for appearance over content.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,911
405
126
The debates generally come down to presence more than content. Obama is an extremely polished debater. Romney generally comes across as stiff. I think that's going to weigh on people far more than any facts or figures that get tossed out. It's a sad reality that we tend to vote for appearance over content.
The cynic in me wants to attribute that to the dumbing down of America - itself a consequence of conservative anti-intellectualism and general vendetta against public education. It would be the most delicious irony that those policies and ideals would deliver unto them a populace that opposed their candidate simply because it wasn't collectively intelligent enough to look past the cardboard surface.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
The cynic in me wants to attribute that to the dumbing down of America - itself a consequence of conservative anti-intellectualism and general vendetta against public education. It would be the most delicious irony that those policies and ideals would deliver unto them a populace that opposed their candidate simply because it wasn't collectively intelligent enough to look past the cardboard surface.
Yes, it's the conservative anti-intellectualism that is killing this country. As Howard Stern showed us, Obama's supporters are all ivy leaguers... :rolleyes:

Fucking hell I hate "liberals", you're as bad as "conservatives". I hope you all kill each other and leave the rest of us alone.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,202
6
81
Could make for a great drinking game. Every time romney lies, drink a bloody mary. Every time obama lies, drink a sapphire martini.

Granted, you would get wasted after a couple minutes, but still, might be fun..... ;)
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,652
199
101
The cynic in me wants to attribute that to the dumbing down of America - itself a consequence of conservative anti-intellectualism and general vendetta against public education.
Apparently you are a good example of how our process for educating people has failed us. Either that, or you're just a complete idiot. Actually, it's probably both.

I agree 100% with Atomic Playboy's post, though I don't think it's anything recent. People have always valued style over substance, but since the advent of TV as a mass medium it has become much harder to overcome this tendency. A three second sound byte now is about the extent of in depth discussion of an issue now.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,439
1
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I agree 100% with Atomic Playboy's post, though I don't think it's anything recent. People have always valued style over substance, but since the advent of TV as a mass medium it has become much harder to overcome this tendency. A three second sound byte now is about the extent of in depth discussion of an issue now.
I've often heard it repeated that the JFK/Nixon debate served as a prime example of this phenomenon. People listening on the radio only heard what the candidates said, and Nixon won on the issues. But on television, Nixon appeared sweaty and nervous and viewers gave the victory to the much more presentable Kennedy. And that was in 1960. Given that no one listens to debates on the radio any more, I think it's safe to say that presentability is going to matter more than content.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,652
199
101
I've often heard it repeated that the JFK/Nixon debate served as a prime example of this phenomenon. People listening on the radio only heard what the candidates said, and Nixon won on the issues. But on television, Nixon appeared sweaty and nervous and viewers gave the victory to the much more presentable Kennedy. And that was in 1960. Given that no one listens to debates on the radio any more, I think it's safe to say that presentability is going to matter more than content.
That's exactly the example I was thinking of, I agree completely with your assessment.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Administrator
Mar 5, 2001
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I read the whole article. One one issue, I think I can anticipate Obama's rebuttal - the deficit. Unless I'm mistaken, while the deficit has grown at a much larger rate, the rate of spending increases increased at a slower rate than it has for many of the previous Presidents. The reason the deficit increased faster is that revenues decreased.
(Am I right on this?)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,931
19,607
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That's exactly the example I was thinking of, I agree completely with your assessment.

And before TV, there was Harding. No one really knew anything about the guy, but he was put forth as the best candidate b/c of his "electability." Tall, handsome, he certainly looks "presidential."

He was probably the worst president, ever. ...Certainly the worst of the 20th century.

I, too, don't think it's fair to attribute it to the current dumbing down of America (which I think is happening)--but then, I guess it has always been happening. ;)

A lot of what goes into humans determining their leaders is very biological, and well-organized campaigns understand this very well.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,911
405
126
Yes, it's the conservative anti-intellectualism that is killing this country. As Howard Stern showed us, Obama's supporters are all ivy leaguers... :rolleyes:

Fucking hell I hate "liberals", you're as bad as "conservatives". I hope you all kill each other and leave the rest of us alone.
Apparently you are a good example of how our process for educating people has failed us. Either that, or you're just a complete idiot. Actually, it's probably both.

I agree 100% with Atomic Playboy's post, though I don't think it's anything recent. People have always valued style over substance, but since the advent of TV as a mass medium it has become much harder to overcome this tendency. A three second sound byte now is about the extent of in depth discussion of an issue now.
I think you're both prime examples of the dumbing down of which I spoke.

I said, "the cynic in me WANTS to attribute..." - that doesn't mean that I actually do. It would just be deliciously ironic if it were true.

Now wipe the froth from your mouths, the both of you. :colbert:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,719
3,528
126
Yes, it's the conservative anti-intellectualism that is killing this country. As Howard Stern showed us, Obama's supporters are all ivy leaguers... :rolleyes:

Fucking hell I hate "liberals", you're as bad as "conservatives". I hope you all kill each other and leave the rest of us alone.
I can go with the fucking hell and that liberals are terrible, but not as bad as conservatives. On the surface it looks for all the world like conservatives are idiots and it's easy and natural to assume that they are. But I have tried over and over again to point out this blindness to liberals, that conservatives are no more stupid than they are. But the facts as new scientific research as pointed out is that conservatives do in fact live in an altered reality they protect out of ego, and that they use their intelligence to deflect truth that would cause them pain to believe. The absolute denial of reality can have evolutionary benefits in certain cases but can also lead to extinction.

Because conservatives are simple minded in their beliefs and do not deeply reason, they can react fast sometimes in dangerous situations. Other times they will fling themselves off cliffs. They are kind of like frogs hunted by a fox in a mine field.

What makes liberals so ridiculous with their stupid conservative thing is that they do not know their enemy and respond uselessly to the threat. Smart people know they aren't stupid and laugh at folk who underestimate them. So conservatives and liberals remain blind to the real problem that conservatives are brilliant at deflecting. And what is worse, the more they do it the surer they are they are right, a self fulfilling delusional reality they live in.

What I worry will make you as useless as conservatives and liberals is that you too will refuse to see this.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
It's dry, but interesting: http://www.amazon.com/Anti-Intellect.../dp/0394703170


There are certainly people who demonize intellectual advancement or worse. The president was called a snob for wanting all kids to go to college.
I'm not going to look at that right now, perhaps later, but I'll assume it's taking a swipe at conservatives.

It has been a long time since college had anything to do with intellectualism. College is a diploma mill nowadays, designed to increase your paycheck, and it's even doing a bad job at that.

Besides, if anti-intellectualism is a conservative trait, then why don't we compare test scores in the red suburbs and compare them to test scores of the blue inner cities.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
I can go with the fucking hell and that liberals are terrible, but not as bad as conservatives. On the surface it looks for all the world like conservatives are idiots and it's easy and natural to assume that they are. But I have tried over and over again to point out this blindness to liberals, that conservatives are no more stupid than they are. But the facts as new scientific research as pointed out is that conservatives do in fact live in an altered reality they protect out of ego, and that they use their intelligence to deflect truth that would cause them pain to believe. The absolute denial of reality can have evolutionary benefits in certain cases but can also lead to extinction.

Because conservatives are simple minded in their beliefs and do not deeply reason, they can react fast sometimes in dangerous situations. Other times they will fling themselves off cliffs. They are kind of like frogs hunted by a fox in a mine field.

What makes liberals so ridiculous with their stupid conservative thing is that they do not know their enemy and respond uselessly to the threat. Smart people know they aren't stupid and laugh at folk who underestimate them. So conservatives and liberals remain blind to the real problem that conservatives are brilliant at deflecting. And what is worse, the more they do it the surer they are they are right, a self fulfilling delusional reality they live in.

What I worry will make you as useless as conservatives and liberals is that you too will refuse to see this.
Whatever you say Hitler. How's the eugenics project going, anyway?
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
I'm not going to look at that right now, perhaps later, but I'll assume it's taking a swipe at conservatives.

It has been a long time since college had anything to do with intellectualism. College is a diploma mill nowadays, designed to increase your paycheck, and it's even doing a bad job at that.

Besides, if anti-intellectualism is a conservative trait, then why don't we compare test scores in the red suburbs and compare them to test scores of the blue inner cities.
You may have missed the part where I didn't mention a party or 'philosophy of governing' at all in my post.
 

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