LOL; it's your statements that are empty; There is a lot one can say or criticize without proving it. I'm sure that literature was never one of your majors at the many universities you claim to have studied at. But I guess you are one of these: "The parable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to shout Like a goat-herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom."
LOL; it's your statements that are empty; There is a lot one can say or criticize without proving it. I'm sure that literature was never one of your majors at the many universities you claim to have studied at. But I guess you are one of these: "The parable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to shout Like a goat-herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom."
- Jun 23, 2004
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It is a telling sign that you do not differentiate between Islam and the extremist elements that are spreading across the world with it.
We want to isolate the extremists and you latch onto them for dear life threatening to kill us if we hunt them down. I recall very well what you said if we were to hunt down the killers of NATO and Afgan forces just on the other side of the Pakistani border. I recall your support against your own government because they might not be friendly enough to those extremists.
If you say killing the extremists is to kill Islam itself, that must be from your inside perspective. Knowing how pervasively that disease has infected the religion.
- Jun 23, 2004
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Yeah... jealous.... of killing others or having a 9 year old sex toy?
No Narmer, I am jealous of another prophet who would rather die slowly of horrific torture than lift a finger against another human being. Jealous that such a enlightened path shall never be mine to walk down, for I have no intention of being kind to those who would harm others.
There is a difference between faith and religion. You can be a "muslim" even though you don't believe in Islam. Once you claim be be a muslim you get all the rights and benefits of one. Nobody can force you into believing it as a faith. So a muslim living in a muslim state will not be able to change his "religion" but nobody's going to tap your telephones or break into your house to see what you've been upto. In public places they wouldn't be allowed to drink or have sex; but that goes for everyone else as well. Anyone can become a muslim. We don't have stupid laws giving immigrants lesser rights than the general public based on where they come from and what they do.
Also, what the penalty for treason in America?
And I would never reject Islam as a religion or faith.
And conversely, you can have faith in Mohammad but no desire to submit to those who pursue God and religion as a means to further their political power.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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And here we have a great example of the ridiculous combination of church and state. We have a Muslim who compares the rejection of Islam with "treason" against one's nation; while the secular West rightfully views the two concepts as completely separate.
Craziness!
I don't think the west is quite as secular as you might think, at least America isn't. Believing in something other than Christianity, unless you keep it to yourself and don't try to make waves about YOUR beliefs, is very nearly treated as treason. I will admit that it doesn't go nearly as far as it does in some other countries...but we're not exactly a perfect model of a secular society either.
It's difficult, at least with western religions (which includes Islam), because a key tenet of all western religions is that everyone who DOESN'T share your religious beliefs is a heretic who's doomed to burn for eternity.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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I have NEVER experienced any sort of negative response to my overt Deism. On the exceedingly rare occasion that it even comes up, most people simply ask what it means, and then go "Oh, OK, cool."
It's never been an issue, for me, so I have to disagree - at least in terms of the degree of the issue, and especially comparing it to "treason" in any way, shape, or form.
I don't know about that man, according to a recent Gallup poll being an atheist is worse then being black. At least in terms of politics. Considering how racist our country is towards black people, that's pretty bad. Now I know that what you look for in a president and what you look for in your neighbor are very different things, but I still think that it is telling.
There was another survey that I was actually looking for when I found this one, and it had very similar results but the question was something like "what traits do you find most/least desirible for a person that your son or daughter brings home". Atheist was the absolute least desirible trait in that survey as well if I remember.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
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Originally posted by: Nebor
If it's any consolation, I don't have a problem with the vast majority of Arabian\Persian\Pakistani people. It's the muslims that are the problem. The secular ones I've met, we get along great, they're good people. So if Islam as a religion would just die, then none of it's followers would have to, and we could end this silly little holy war.
The thing about religion is, a lot of people are willing to die for it.
LMAO, I bet you meet tons of Muslims in Texico.
That's not true. The beliefs of the different sects of Islam stretch beyond the basic lines of what is illegal and what is not. Beliefs of two muslims maybe as different as beliefs between a christian and a jew and that includes the concepts of hell and heaven. The law is one of the few things that unite ALL muslims alike. You can call Islam a nationality rather than a faith. But now - when there are no Islamic states left; the shariat is practiced more in name than reality. So yes; If Islam had its own nation the rejection of Islam within its own borders would be considered "treason" against one's own nation. There isn't much anyone would do or could today if one were to switch.
Rainsford:
"I don't think the west is quite as secular as you might think, at least America isn't. Believing in something other than Christianity, unless you keep it to yourself and don't try to make waves about YOUR beliefs, is very nearly treated as treason. I will admit that it doesn't go nearly as far as it does in some other countries...but we're not exactly a perfect model of a secular society either. "
BS. In the U.S., you're considered a whacko and not a traitor if you try to force your religious beliefs on someone else against their wishes, and that includes Christianity. The state only sits up and takes notice of your religion if your compatriots fly planes into buildings in it's name. I think that's where your confusion lies.
I have lived there for decades practicing my own religion my own way minding my own business and no one has said anything remotely against it.
"I don't think the west is quite as secular as you might think, at least America isn't. Believing in something other than Christianity, unless you keep it to yourself and don't try to make waves about YOUR beliefs, is very nearly treated as treason. I will admit that it doesn't go nearly as far as it does in some other countries...but we're not exactly a perfect model of a secular society either. "
BS. In the U.S., you're considered a whacko and not a traitor if you try to force your religious beliefs on someone else against their wishes, and that includes Christianity. The state only sits up and takes notice of your religion if your compatriots fly planes into buildings in it's name. I think that's where your confusion lies.
I have lived there for decades practicing my own religion my own way minding my own business and no one has said anything remotely against it.
The Green Bean:
"That's not true. The beliefs of the different sects of Islam stretch beyond the basic lines of what is illegal and what is not. Beliefs of two muslims maybe as different as beliefs between a christian and a jew and that includes the concepts of hell and heaven. The law is one of the few things that unite ALL muslims alike. You can call Islam a nationality rather than a faith. But now - when there are no Islamic states left; the shariat is practiced more in name than reality. So yes; If Islam had its own nation the rejection of Islam within its own borders would be considered "treason" against one's own nation. There isn't much anyone would do or could today if one were to switch."
You sound so much like a Communist. Islamists like you want a chance to implement this unworkable ideology just like the Bolsheviks wanted to implement Communism in the early 1900s. The question is whether the rest of the world can spend it's resources trying to contain it until it's proven unworkable like Communism, or spend the resources now to ensure that it never materializes so that the world is saved another cold war.
"That's not true. The beliefs of the different sects of Islam stretch beyond the basic lines of what is illegal and what is not. Beliefs of two muslims maybe as different as beliefs between a christian and a jew and that includes the concepts of hell and heaven. The law is one of the few things that unite ALL muslims alike. You can call Islam a nationality rather than a faith. But now - when there are no Islamic states left; the shariat is practiced more in name than reality. So yes; If Islam had its own nation the rejection of Islam within its own borders would be considered "treason" against one's own nation. There isn't much anyone would do or could today if one were to switch."
You sound so much like a Communist. Islamists like you want a chance to implement this unworkable ideology just like the Bolsheviks wanted to implement Communism in the early 1900s. The question is whether the rest of the world can spend it's resources trying to contain it until it's proven unworkable like Communism, or spend the resources now to ensure that it never materializes so that the world is saved another cold war.
It's a proven workable ideology. If you think otherwise please explain. The world hasn't changed a great deal in 900 years.
"It's a proven workable ideology. If you think otherwise please explain. The world hasn't changed a great deal in 900 years."
It's proven workable in places like Sudan, Taliban Afghanistan et. al.. Otherwise it's just a figment of your imagination. And if you think the world hasn't changed a great deal in 900 years, you're about as aware of today's reality as Rip van Winkle, and therein lies your problem.
It's proven workable in places like Sudan, Taliban Afghanistan et. al.. Otherwise it's just a figment of your imagination. And if you think the world hasn't changed a great deal in 900 years, you're about as aware of today's reality as Rip van Winkle, and therein lies your problem.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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Exhibit A: a ridiculous statement confirming the obvious - that is, Sharia is not suited for the 21st century.
So much has changed that I wouldn't even know where to begin in explaining the differences to you... for starters, we have global economies, global alliances, and semi-secular democracy is the form of government preferred by most of the free world. Next we'll discuss the Industrial Age, highly mobile societies, practically invisible borders, and, of course, the Information Age.
The world is so vastly different from 900 years ago that your statement borders on lunacy!
Once again, Sharia is not suited for the 21st century. Believing otherwise, and acting on it, will only lead to trouble; and, eventually, war.
Of the changes you mentioned none is in conflict with your stated changes. The proposed system would create a bloc with 1 billion people with vast resources and large GDPs effectively making us a superpower.
Global Economies - Nothing new. Trade between countries has been going on for ages. Maybe a crash at once place would have had a localized effect back then but if the current trend continues we will be back where we started.
Global Alliances - Again nothing new. There were plenty of pacts of Islamic countries with non-Islamic ones.
Semi-Secular preference - If that changes what?
Industrial Age, highly mobile societies, practically invisible borders, and, of course, the Information Age. - That can't be a bad thing. How does that change anything about the ideology not working. You must remember that before the information age; the spread of information was most efficient during the Golden age of Islam. Better media = better. There is no reason why those things will amount to it failing.
Practically invisible borders - You call me a lunatic? It's only now that borders have been defined as such. Borders were more "invisible" back then. The invisibility is only notices by the western "masters"
If you continue to demand we leave our God for the capitalistic god of yours war is inevitable.
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