The Tragedy of General Motors

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Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Ktulu
WTF? They are exactly the same thing.

Same thing as what?

What is the GMC Envoy the same thing as?

What is the Denali versions of their cars the same as?

What? Tell me.

They used to be the same, like 10 YEARS AGO. Learn a bit about the company and the difference before you spout off such ignorance.


I'm sorry what do you drive.

I've got an '04 Silverado and my neighbor has an '05 Sierra, again, they're exactly the same.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Ktulu
WTF? They are exactly the same thing.

Same thing as what?

What is the GMC Envoy the same thing as?

What is the Denali versions of their cars the same as?

What? Tell me.

They used to be the same, like 10 YEARS AGO. Learn a bit about the company and the difference before you spout off such ignorance.

GMC Envoy=Chevy Trailblazer

GMC Sierra is a Chevy 1500 Silverado

They share probably 90% of the same components as their Chevy counterparts.
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
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Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
GMC Envoy=Chevy Trailblazer

GMC Sierra is a Chevy 1500 Silverado

They share probably 90% of the same components as their Chevy counterparts.

As for the Envoy you could say any SUV that size is the same.

The Trailblazer and the Envoy are two very different cars and you know that.

GMC Sierra has a different exterior look than the 1500 and comes with more options.

GMC and Chevy market to two very different people and that is why they exist. Anyone who says GMC is just a Chevy copy just needs to STFU because they're an idiot.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
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0
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
GMC Envoy=Chevy Trailblazer

GMC Sierra is a Chevy 1500 Silverado

They share probably 90% of the same components as their Chevy counterparts.

As for the Envoy you could say any SUV that size is the same.

The Trailblazer and the Envoy are two very different cars and you know that.

GMC Sierra has a different exterior look than the 1500 and comes with more options.

GMC and Chevy market to two very different people and that is why they exist. Anyone who says GMC is just a Chevy copy just needs to STFU because they're an idiot.

wow, that sounds like a personal attack
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
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Originally posted by: Ktulu
I'm sorry what do you drive.

I've got an '04 Silverado and my neighbor has an '05 Sierra, again, they're exactly the same.

They're EXACTLY the same? Because you know if you put them next to each other, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to tell them apart.

And personally I think the Chevy is hideously ugly while the GMC is good looking, for a truck.

So the steering wheel and a few buttons are "similar." Does that make is the same car?

Does your truck have that "4 wheel turning" option, where all 4 wheels turn when you turn? I don't think so. That's available on the Sierra.

It's typical for someone who drives the inferior Chevy to say their superior (the GMC in this case) is "exactly the same."

That's like someone in a Toyota Camry saying their car is basically "exactly the same" as a Lexus because the steering wheel is the same shape and a few buttons on the inside are similar.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Ktulu
I'm sorry what do you drive.

I've got an '04 Silverado and my neighbor has an '05 Sierra, again, they're exactly the same.

They're EXACTLY the same? Because you know if you put them next to each other, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to tell them apart.

And personally I think the Chevy is hideously ugly while the GMC is good looking, for a truck.

So the steering wheel and a few buttons are "similar." Does that make is the same car?

Does your truck have that "4 wheel turning" option, where all 4 wheels turn when you turn? I don't think so. That's available on the Sierra.

It's typical for someone who drives the inferior Chevy to say their superior (the GMC in this case) is "exactly the same."

That's like someone in a Toyota Camry saying their car is basically "exactly the same" as a Lexus because the steering wheel is the same shape and a few buttons on the inside are similar.

excuuuuuuuuuuse me for using the word exactly

very well, the differences between the two are so little that it wouldn't make much of a difference if you dropped either line of trucks.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Ktulu
I'm sorry what do you drive.

I've got an '04 Silverado and my neighbor has an '05 Sierra, again, they're exactly the same.

They're EXACTLY the same? Because you know if you put them next to each other, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to tell them apart.

And personally I think the Chevy is hideously ugly while the GMC is good looking, for a truck.

So the steering wheel and a few buttons are "similar." Does that make is the same car?

Does your truck have that "4 wheel turning" option, where all 4 wheels turn when you turn? I don't think so. That's available on the Sierra.

It's typical for someone who drives the inferior Chevy to say their superior (the GMC in this case) is "exactly the same."

That's like someone in a Toyota Camry saying their car is basically "exactly the same" as a Lexus because the steering wheel is the same shape and a few buttons on the inside are similar.

From Edmunds.com:

Like its Silverado cousin, the Sierra is a solid truck in terms of its drivetrain, roomy interior and unique features, but the Dodge Ram, Ford F-150 and Nissan Titan have it beat when it comes to interior design and overall refinement.

Overview

Introduction: GMC's full-size pickup has been around in one form or another since the early '60s. Currently in its sixth generation, the Sierra, as it's now called, boasts classic styling and a wide variety of body styles and drivetrain configurations. A perennial competitor to the full-size offerings from Ford and Dodge, GMC now positions itself as the professional-grade truck in GM's lineup. Although its sales numbers are far below those of its competitors, when combined with its sister vehicle, the Chevrolet Silverado, sales of the two trucks outdo the F-Series.

Hey genius, they are built on the same chassis, use the same drivetrain, share the same electronics, suspension, brakes and most of the same sheet metal. Now please, STFU before you hurt yourself.
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
0
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Originally posted by: Ktulu
excuuuuuuuuuuse me for using the word exactly

very well, the differences between the two are so little that it wouldn't make much of a difference if you dropped either line of trucks.

GMC customers and Chevy customers are two very different people.

Many of them would never own a Chevy. The evidence of this is in the commercials.

Chevy trucks markets to beer swigging hillbillies (although Ford is even worst about this), GMC markets to middle upper class people who need a truck.

GMC is a very important brand.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Does your truck have that "4 wheel turning" option, where all 4 wheels turn when you turn? I don't think so. That's available on the Sierra.
no, it's not.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
Were it not for GM's dividend, $2 annually, the price would surely be lower than it is.
well, that's stupid. if GM hadn't been paying out a $2 dividend then that would be $2 more in assets that it actually has, to the stock price should move up $2. and if they'd, oh, i dunno, reinvested that $2 in modern equipment or kept it as a war chest by which to fight the UAW, maybe it'd be much higher.
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
0
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Does your truck have that "4 wheel turning" option, where all 4 wheels turn when you turn? I don't think so. That's available on the Sierra.
no, it's not.

I just looked it up, they used to have it on the Sierra, but apparently not anymore.

Does the Chevy have full time AWD? The Sierra does.

The GMC is vastly superior to Chevy.
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
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0
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Ktulu
excuuuuuuuuuuse me for using the word exactly

very well, the differences between the two are so little that it wouldn't make much of a difference if you dropped either line of trucks.

Chevy trucks markets to beer swigging hillbillies

Seriously dude, you need to stop with the personal attacks
 

Ktulu

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2000
4,354
0
0
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Does your truck have that "4 wheel turning" option, where all 4 wheels turn when you turn? I don't think so. That's available on the Sierra.
no, it's not.

I just looked it up, they used to have it on the Sierra, but apparently not anymore.

Does the Chevy have full time AWD? The Sierra does.

The GMC is vastly superior to Chevy.

yes, the chevy does have full time AWD, on the SS
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,586
986
126
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Does your truck have that "4 wheel turning" option, where all 4 wheels turn when you turn? I don't think so. That's available on the Sierra.
no, it's not.

I just looked it up, they used to have it on the Sierra, but apparently not anymore.

Does the Chevy have full time AWD? The Sierra does.

The GMC is the same as Chevy.

Fixed.
 

tw1164

Diamond Member
Dec 8, 1999
3,995
0
76
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Does your truck have that "4 wheel turning" option, where all 4 wheels turn when you turn? I don't think so. That's available on the Sierra.
no, it's not.

I just looked it up, they used to have it on the Sierra, but apparently not anymore.

Does the Chevy have full time AWD? The Sierra does.

The GMC is vastly superior to Chevy.

Do you have one of those "Calvin pissing on Chevy" stickers on your GMC vehicle?
 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
0
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Originally posted by: tw1164
Do you have one of those "Calvin pissing on Chevy" stickers on your GMC vehicle?

I have an Infiniti QX4, which is vastly superior to the Pathfinder, which I proved beyond a reasonable doubt in another thread.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,976
141
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That raises a point made by a fellow--you will see why he doesn't want his name mentioned--in the GM dealer organization: "I can't really believe," he says, "that the people who got GM into this mess are going to be the people who can get GM out."

..and 64 billion in unfunded liabilities.

And gravely, it is burdened by health costs, which it supplies for a population bigger than Detroit's--that is, for a total of 1.1 million employees, retirees, and dependents. Its thriving Japanese competitors, such as Toyota (Research), pay health benefits for their U.S. active employees and dependents too. But Toyota does not have GM's retiree health burden, a mountain that at year-end totaled an unfunded $64 billion and that, in annual effect on the bottom line, adds about $1,300 to the cost of every car and truck GM makes in the U.S.

..Ive felt for a long time GM failed to build a product backbone on econimical and reliable cars in the form and function of the Honda Civic or the Toyota Corolla. I see them things all over the place and hardly a GM counter that is recognizable competition. And if they do have a competitive product they have failed miserably in marketing. An outstanding product means nothing if potential buyers don't know about it.

Chrysler did recieve "loan guarantees" but not a dime of tax payer revenue.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,758
603
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LOL at gatsby. GM has a ton of brands and like a quarter as many actually different products. You want a luxury car? Take car platform A, stick a bunch of nice options and a sweet interior on it, slap the luxury brand badge on it and bam its a luxury car. You want an economy car? Take car platform A, stick basic options and a economy brand badge...and bam its an economy car. Pretty much all automakers do this to varying degrees, its a cost saving measure. Less R&D costs because its only one design for 3 or so vehicles, less manufactoring costs as well. GMs penchent for gobbling up brands just brings it to crazy stupid levels, since their brands all overlap eachothers markets.

I thought everyone knew this. Go ahead and hate the chevy truck while buying the GMC though...the cash all goes to the same place.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,758
603
126
Originally posted by: Jetpuff
GMC - badge engineering at its finest (or worst, depending on your point of view)

Seems to be working better then I expected. :p
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,758
603
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It was a good article. What I got out of it was GM is going to need some luck. They said themselves no company has turned itself around just by cutting costs. They're going to need revenue flow, and that means they need people to buy their products. All about the products hold true here I guess.

They had a good quote from a mechanic saying that their vehicles had really improved, but that no one will buy them. To many people bought junk from them in the past, and GM has spent to much time making itself look like the guy with the cheap cars with their crazy rebates. It'll be tough to turn that around at this point. They can't honestly expect people that probably left them because they became fed up with their products to come running back with open arms as soon as they start getting it right? Those people very well may never come back. Its a lot easier to keep existing customers then it is to replace them!

I don't know though, I liked my old 92 cavalier wagon when I had it. Maybe they'll give me a good deal...on a vibe. :p
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,392
1,780
126
Ouch...I didn't realize they had to pay health benefits to their retirees. Sucks to be them.
 

Dacalo

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2000
8,778
4
76
There was an article in Forbes not too long ago regarding GM's trouble as well. An ex-employee of GM earned $60k just for going around the neighborhood and fixing small-carpenter-related items, a few hours a day. He was laid off, but the union got him a great contract with GM. There are thousands like this guy, and surly, more to come.

GM is wasting billions on crap like this. Whoever signed the contract with the union should be shot. It doesn't help that other car companies are making superior automobiles with less cost.
 

MattCo

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2001
2,198
2
81
Damn, Gatsby... you sure do love the GM brand.

The simple solution then would be to kill off the Chevy versions then.

-MC