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The tipping system: good or bad?

T

The Raven

Senior member
Hey everyone!

I have been irritated by the institution of tipping for the longest time. Even when I was a server. Some people like it because you can reward or punish the server accordingly. Yet others, like me, think it's retarded and demand reform!

I would also like to punish a server for bad service, but in the state of California, they are already making minimum wage with tips on top of that. I know in some states, servers get paid a discounted rate because a certain amount of tips are expected, i.e. Utah (let me know if you are from a state like this.) And so they end up with near-minimum-wage-like pay.

So if I wanted to punish a person in Utah by not tipping well (or at all) they end up just getting their hourly wage for the duration of my meal. That's like 3-4 bucks I think. That sucks! Too bad for them. They should work harder next time!

But in California, no tip = $6.75 (current minimum wage) At this rate servers can say, "Hooray! I gave Popcopy-like service (see horrible) and still came out ahead of the game!" And yes I realize that the standard of living is different amongst the states and even the major metropolises, but the fact of the matter is that servers here get tips on top of minimum wage.

So now, California aside, I still hate tipping. Many restaurants collect the tips at the end of the day and split them up accordingly amongst the entire crew. That seems nice and fair, right? Wrong! If my steak tastes great (thanks to the cook) but my glass is empty the entire night (stupid waitress) then, "No tip for you!" The poor chef gets no reward for his skilled hands. And I suppose that this could go the other way too (bad product/great service) but not too many people base their tipping habits on that.

So does the server learn their lesson about providing better service? Probably not. I would think that most of the times that you get poor service it is the fault of the managment. Not scheduling enough servers to cut labor costs or not forcasting properly are some of the problems I've seen in the past. No waitress can fix problems like that. If the boss tells you to serve more tables than you are able to you have no choice and the level of service will slide.

Well I have more to say on the matter but I don't want to hog the soapbox all day. (I'll be back tomorrow! Ha!) Please let me know how you feel on the matter. Thanks!

AND DON'T FORGET TO VOTE!!!
 
punish?! you want to punish a server by not tipping?!

you have issues. just order your food, eat it and leave. if you don't want to tip, that's your choice.

if this is the worst of your problems, you have it made.
 
I generally disagree. Mainly just because I dont see how there could be a much better system. In most of CA, the min wage isnt enough to rent a studio apartment in the projects. So I don't feel bad if they get ~8-10 an hour. Also, if they split it up, I figure that is their business.
 
I dislike the fact that you cannot determine who the tip goes to. The other day I was with a large group of people (15 IIRC) and one of our waiters was trash, gave everyone lip and didn't even respond to people's requests. The other guy was top notch with drink refills ect, but the tip was split between both of them. There needs to be a way so that you can give money to the people who deserve it and none to those who don't.
 
I'm a server, the system sucks, but it is there so until that changes this is how it is. I make $2.13 an hour plus my tips. I turn over enough tables that I average out to be about $10 an hour, but I have to work my ass off for it. I consider myself to be a damn good server, and I can tell when a table hasn't had good service (in which case I don't expect a good tip from them), but there are a LOT of cheap mofos out there that will come up to me and say "Hey man you did a great job" but when I go to pick the book off the table they left $5 on a $100 ticket. For those of you that b1tch about tipping, do you have a job where if someone decides not to pay you, you simply don't get paid?
 
Originally posted by: meltdown75
punish?! you want to punish a server by not tipping?!

you have issues. just order your food, eat it and leave. if you don't want to tip, that's your choice.

if this is the worst of your problems, you have it made.
Click to expand...

I used to be a waiter at a sushi restaurant and I Strongly Disagree.

It's because Tipping used to be only for gratitude if they did a good job. Now its almost mandatory.

Also, it gives the manager of the business too much power. They should be paying waiters for what they work for, not make the customers pay for their food AND pay a waiter to serve the damn food. We shared the tip with EVERYONE also.

I remember when I went to Korea and ordered pizza. I tipped the guy a buck and he freaked out and was soooo happy. Everytime i ordered from there my pizza came extra early and fast. Im america, tips are expected or they hunt you down.

Tips should only be for graditude.
 
Originally posted by: meltdown75
punish?! you want to punish a server by not tipping?!
you have issues. just order your food, eat it and leave. if you don't want to tip, that's your choice. if this is the worst of your problems, you have it made.
Click to expand...

First of all thanks for the reply and input, everyone.

Secondly, I don't want to punish anyone! I want to go and have a nice pleasant meal with a server who does what they are paid to do, give good service (notice I said 'good' not 'great'. I'm not asking for miracle workers here!) I don't know about you, but I have had some evenings completely ruined because of a lack of good service. And I'm not sure I understand you, but you think I should pay 'extra' for that. No thanks.
 
If there was no tipping system in place, you would have service equivalent to that of the fast food industry.

Also, you CAN determine where the tip goes to in many cases. If you have two servers for example, you can tip the person on the side extra instead of just putting a big sum on the check. In smaller restaurants, they'll generally let you either talk to the chef if they have an extra moment, or have a manger hold onto the tip and give it to the chef later on.
 
Okay, just to clarify -- this:

> Do you think the tipping system sucks?

Followed by:

> Strongly Agree
> Agree
> Don't Care
> Disagree
> Strongly Disagree

Technically makes no sense. It should state a fact (e.g. "The tipping system is bad."), then ask "How do you feel about this?" or something similar. This is just basic English and logic...
 
Oh and before anyone says "it makes people serve better" thats complete bullshit. You either suck, cusomter complains, and you get fired. Just like ALL other jobs. Do you see how good of a service In N' Out workers or Starbuck workers give you? They work well because the people who they work for treat them well. Not give you below minimum wge.
 
Originally posted by: BigJ
If there was no tipping system in place, you would have service equivalent to that of the fast food industry.

Also, you CAN determine where the tip goes to in many cases. If you have two servers for example, you can tip the person on the side extra instead of just putting a big sum on the check. In smaller restaurants, they'll generally let you either talk to the chef if they have an extra moment, or have a manger hold onto the tip and give it to the chef later on.
Click to expand...


Complete Bullshit. America is almost the only country that tips wiaters. Go traveling sometime. Restaurant services around the world are WAY better than american restaurants.
 
Originally posted by: Remy XO
Originally posted by: BigJ
If there was no tipping system in place, you would have service equivalent to that of the fast food industry.

Also, you CAN determine where the tip goes to in many cases. If you have two servers for example, you can tip the person on the side extra instead of just putting a big sum on the check. In smaller restaurants, they'll generally let you either talk to the chef if they have an extra moment, or have a manger hold onto the tip and give it to the chef later on.
Click to expand...


Complete Bullshit. America is almost the only country that tips wiaters. Go traveling sometime. Restaurant services around the world are WAY better than american restaurants.
Click to expand...

And I'm sure that those people all get minimum wage like they do in the US, right?

If we raised the wage rate for servers, sure we could abolish the system and expect good service. But you honestly think people will bend over backwards for minimum wage?
 
Originally posted by: The Raven
Originally posted by: meltdown75
punish?! you want to punish a server by not tipping?!
you have issues. just order your food, eat it and leave. if you don't want to tip, that's your choice. if this is the worst of your problems, you have it made.
Click to expand...

First of all thanks for the reply and input, everyone.

Secondly, I don't want to punish anyone! I want to go and have a nice pleasant meal with a server who does what they are paid to do, give good service (notice I said 'good' not 'great'. I'm not asking for miracle workers here!) I don't know about you, but I have had some evenings completely ruined because of a lack of good service. And I'm not sure I understand you, but you think I should pay 'extra' for that. No thanks.
Click to expand...
well, perhaps you should choose where you dine more carefully, or maybe you are drawn to places with sh1tty service.
personally, i enjoy the flexibility of the current tipping system.
i might be biased because my wife used to be a waitress / bartender. since then, we tip even more generously. the issue is obviously more contentious in different areas & different countries i guess.
 
Originally posted by: BigJ

And I'm sure that those people all get minimum wage like they do in the US, right?
Click to expand...

and that's exactly the point of this thread. Restaurant owners have way too much power and the only people that are gettin hurt are the waiters and ESPECIALLY the customers since they pay for the food AND service.

Restaurants only pay minimum or less because they EXPECT the waiters to be paid from the customers through tip

im done here bye
 
Originally posted by: The Raven
Originally posted by: meltdown75
punish?! you want to punish a server by not tipping?!
you have issues. just order your food, eat it and leave. if you don't want to tip, that's your choice. if this is the worst of your problems, you have it made.
Click to expand...

First of all thanks for the reply and input, everyone.

Secondly, I don't want to punish anyone! I want to go and have a nice pleasant meal with a server who does what they are paid to do, give good service (notice I said 'good' not 'great'. I'm not asking for miracle workers here!) I don't know about you, but I have had some evenings completely ruined because of a lack of good service. And I'm not sure I understand you, but you think I should pay 'extra' for that. No thanks.
Click to expand...

Realize also that the bad service that you get is not always (not even usually) the servers fault. Whether it be they ran out of something in the back or the cooks lost a ticket or there are a million things that can and do go wrong back there that can make your food take longer. Sometimes the server will forget to put in an order, but that is rare (unless they are new. I've done it myself, learned my lesson). But even though your food is taking a while, the server is more than likely running around the back trying to find a manager to figure out whats taking the cooks so damn long, fix that, go serve the other tables as well, all while putting on an act for you trying to keep everyone happy. So you can see where the server would become upset if they were stiffed, although they worked their ass off, and only came out of their making $2.13. I would NEVER completely stiff a server unless they were either rude to me, or something happened that I knew was their fault and they didn't try to fix it promptly (if it was their fault and they did everything they could to fix it all is still good, they still get a fat tip).
 
Originally posted by: Remy XO
Originally posted by: BigJ

And I'm sure that those people all get minimum wage like they do in the US, right?
Click to expand...

and that's exactly the point of this thread. Restaurant owners have way too much power and the only people that are gettin hurt are the waiters and ESPECIALLY the customers since they pay for the food AND service.
Click to expand...

Tipping also allows you to receive exceptional service as opposed to a higher average service in non-tipping areas. I frequent a small restaurant every month or two and the servers all know who I am, and that I tip very well as long as they do a good job. Compared to other people in the restaurant, I always have my drinks filled before I need a refill, my food always gets to me first, and I often get stuff comped.

Stuff like that would not happen unless you raise the wage rates extremely high. And doing so would also raise prices within a restaurant to much higher levels.
 
Originally posted by: Remy XO
Originally posted by: BigJ

And I'm sure that those people all get minimum wage like they do in the US, right?
Click to expand...

and that's exactly the point of this thread. Restaurant owners have way too much power and the only people that are gettin hurt are the waiters and ESPECIALLY the customers since they pay for the food AND service.
Click to expand...

The customers are going to have to pay for the food and service regardless, nothing is free. If we got rid of tipping the prices on your meals would have to be raised a good bit to compensate.
 
Originally posted by: UglyCasanova
Originally posted by: Remy XO
Originally posted by: BigJ

And I'm sure that those people all get minimum wage like they do in the US, right?
Click to expand...

and that's exactly the point of this thread. Restaurant owners have way too much power and the only people that are gettin hurt are the waiters and ESPECIALLY the customers since they pay for the food AND service.
Click to expand...

The customers are going to have to pay for the food and service regardless, nothing is free. If we got rid of tipping the prices on your meals would have to be raised a good bit to compensate.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup: Bingo. Expect meals to go up at least $2 if the owner had to make up the difference between what they get paid with tips, and what they get paid now without tips.
 
Originally posted by: UglyCasanova


The customers are going to have to pay for the food and service regardless, nothing is free. If we got rid of tipping the prices on your meals would have to be raised a good bit to compensate.
Click to expand...

See its been like that for awhile in the US. The restaurants paid the waiters a decent amount of what they are expected to work for. But these days restaurants are paying less (below minimum wage) and making new laws for just waiters to get paid less but they're not lowering the price of food. The tipping system was good before restaurants started taking advantage of the system to bring in more money. America has grown from tipping for good service to tipping for the waiters salary.
 
Originally posted by: LordSegan
I generally disagree. Mainly just because I dont see how there could be a much better system. In most of CA, the min wage isnt enough to rent a studio apartment in the projects. So I don't feel bad if they get ~8-10 an hour. Also, if they split it up, I figure that is their business.
Click to expand...

I can see how a lot of people think this way, but I was in Japan for a long time and didn't really eat out a lot but I have many Japanese friends that do and they say that they have never had bad service at a restaurant. I ask them what they would do if they did have a sub-par experience and they say, "I'll never go there again and they'll lose my business. They better start looking for a server who will do their job right before they lose more business."

Besides a raised standard of service, you also don't have to deal with those mental tricks that marketers use (i.e. pricing things as $1.99 instead of $2. Man, I think that's retarded ,too!) If the menu says $10 for the meal, guess what, you pay $10 and don't have to worry about a tip. Women play enough head games with us as it is (sorry any ladies out there, I know we're a bunch of trouble, too) we don't need the restaurants doing it, too.

Oh yeah and that pizza thing. What the hell is that? Pizza place, just charge me more. How simple can it get?
 
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