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The Thought Police are coming to take me away

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
A story that I don't remember seeing in any US news outlets describes a Minority Report scenario where the gubment is scanning crowds looking for those that mean to do harm to others.

Project Hostile Intent is a new Homeland Security initiative that is going to make us all safe by reading our body language and predicting who among us is about to pull off the next terror attack or jaywalk.

Orwell would be so proud.

rose.gif
RIP America.

Counter-terrorism experts have drawn up plans to develop an array of advanced technologies capable of spotting would-be terrorists in a crowd before they have time to strike.

Scientists and engineers have been asked to devise ways of analysing people's behaviour and physiology from afar, in the hope they may reveal clues about their mental state and even their future intentions.

Under Project Hostile Intent, scientists will aim to build devices that can pick up tell-tale signs of hostile intent or deception from people's heart rates, perspiration and tiny shifts in facial expressions.

The project was launched by the US department of homeland security with a call to security companies and government laboratories for assistance.

According to the timetable set out, the new devices are expected to be trialled at a handful of airports, borders and ports of entry by 2012.

The plans describe how systems based on video cameras, laserlight, infra-red, audio recordings and eye tracking technology are expected to scour crowds looking for unusual behaviour, with the aim of identifying people who should be approached and quizzed by security staff, New Scientist magazine reports.

The project hopes to advance a security system already employed by the US transportation security administration that monitors people for unintentional facial twitches, called "micro-expressions", that can suggest someone is lying or trying to conceal information.

Studies by Paul Ekman, a psychologist at the University of California, San Francisco, have revealed that involuntary expressions can often betray someone's true intentions. If you flash your teeth, lower your eyebrows and wrinkle your nose for a fraction of a second while trying to smile, you have just demonstrated the micro-expression for disgust.

A major hurdle will be developing technology that can make correct decisions quickly. "Right now, screeners have typically less than one minute to examine a traveller's documents and assess whether they are a threat," said Larry Orluskie, of the department of homeland security.

The project is also expected to investigate developing a lie detector-type test that can be used remotely - an advantage because it would not interfere with the flow of a crowd and it could be used without the target's knowledge.

Experts yesterday were sceptical that today's technology will be able to predict hostile intent accurately enough to be useful. Dr Ekman said a terrorist might confound security measures by showing a range of expressions from fear of being caught to distress at the possibility of dying. "I don't know. No one knows," he told New Scientist.

Anthony Richards, a counter-terrorism expert at St Andrews University who has worked on Britain's ability to pre-empt a major terrorist attack, agreed that the project faced substantial hurdles.

"There could be all kinds of reasons that might make people behave in certain ways that have nothing to do with terrorism. If you have heightened security and there are a lot of police around, it could be possible that you can feel and look guilty even when you haven't done anything wrong.

"We need to reduce the motivation for people doing these kinds of things. We shouldn't just accept that terrorism will remain as it is or worsen over the next 20 or 30 years and then just put all the technological solutions in place. Technology is certainly important in the fight against terrorism but that shouldn't detract from the crucially important challenge of finding out what is driving terrorism. We need to have a sensible and honest appraisal as to what is radicalising young people."

Peter McOwan, a computer scientist who is developing sensors to detect people's moods at Queen Mary, University of London, said: "It's just like something from Minority Report. They have been watching too many Tom Cruise movies."
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
"Right now, screeners have typically less than one minute to examine a traveller's documents and assess whether they are a threat," said Larry Orluskie, of the department of homeland security.

WTF???

How does a document determine whether someone is a threat?
 
Gee I wonder why we cant fund infrastructure repairs when some senator got this lame brain idea through. Chances are the company hired to develope this technology also resides within said douchebags district.
 
Interesting!

If this is actually technologically possible at this point (I am doubtful), it doesn't matter if the government is funding this project - it's too valuable for someone not to build, so you might as well quit complaining on that score. What remains to be seen is how government and society will handle this newfound tech.
 
The technology is certainly possible, and it's real. The systems are essentially advanced facial recognition software performing a near real-time neurel analysis on surveilance footage. Studies have been going on for years to establish a baseline for body language and facial gestures (See: Kenesics) that may indicate a pending hostile act. Airport screeners, intelligence personnel, and law enforcement officers are being trained in the same subject - and have been for decades!

"Reading people" is a science, and it's quite feasable to use computers and video to accomplish the same thing. The goal would be to eliminate false-positives and achieve a 99.9% accuracy rating.

Implementing this at airports, Superbowls, and other events that draw large crowds doesnt sound bad to me. The system would be doing the same thing officers and others are already trained to do now. How would automating the process and utilizing surveilance systems that are already in place be a bad thing?

There is always the chance for abuse of the systems, but that will occur with or without this new technology. That's called the human factor.
 
Originally posted by: will889
I wonder when they will come out with the technology to actually capture OBL?
The technology for that already exists.. we just need to have a few politicans grow the cajones necessary to allow it to be deployed across the Afghan-Pakistan border. 😛
 
I have mentioned, ad nausium, that we will soon have technology that can identify and track and keep records on every move we make in this world including the state of our emotions. If implemented we could effectively end crime. We will have records of anyone at a crime scene going back for years. Data can be cross referenced to find serial killers, thieves, who stole your car, where it is, where they are, ad infinitum. The only danger will be the potential abuse this can also bring. We can end all crime that is committed with the hope of anonymity and we can create Big Brother.
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: will889
I wonder when they will come out with the technology to actually capture OBL?
The technology for that already exists.. we just need to have a few politicans grow the cajones necessary to allow it to be deployed across the Afghan-Pakistan border. 😛

I thought you had to be careful what you posted on the internet, you've just let loose that OBL is alive and well in Pakistan. Maybe you wouldn't mind posting a picture or something also? 😛
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I have mentioned, ad nausium, that we will soon have technology that can identify and track and keep records on every move we make in this world including the state of our emotions. If implemented we could effectively end crime. We will have records of anyone at a crime scene going back for years. Data can be cross referenced to find serial killers, thieves, who stole your car, where it is, where they are, ad infinitum. The only danger will be the potential abuse this can also bring. We can end all crime that is committed with the hope of anonymity and we can create Big Brother.
I agree with Moonbeam. Let's place cameras and microphones in every room in every house, and also require that every person wear a personal camera and microphone. We will then all be safe. If that's not safe enough, let's impose restrictive curfews on everyone. And if we can develop brain probes to monitor worrisome thoughts, lets require that everyone be implanted at birth.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I have mentioned, ad nausium, that we will soon have technology that can identify and track and keep records on every move we make in this world including the state of our emotions. If implemented we could effectively end crime. We will have records of anyone at a crime scene going back for years. Data can be cross referenced to find serial killers, thieves, who stole your car, where it is, where they are, ad infinitum. The only danger will be the potential abuse this can also bring. We can end all crime that is committed with the hope of anonymity and we can create Big Brother.

exactly...think something negative about the government....boom! you are gone, erased as if you never existed.
 
Of course the technology exists. You set up a military recruiting office, you find the most hostile in your own nation, give them guns and weapons, and then sic em on another nation. No facial recognition mumbo jumbo needed. Now the only remaining question is--which recruiting office is GWB&co working for---the US military or the terrorists? And when we come down to it, GWB is the #1 recruiter for both groups. ----------------yer doing a hecka a job Bushie.
 
Don't you think a presidential detail does the same thing? You've got special services keeping an eye on a crowd looking for people who are potentially naughty. All that we're talking about here is automating it. Police throughout the ages have used a person's appearance and body language as a possible cue for their poor behavior. Don't be so silly to think that a well dressed guy in a business suit walking down the street is as likely to mug somebody as a punk in scrubby clothes and prison tats. Cops know better and use their brains. This sytem (in theory) would, too.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Don't you think a presidential detail does the same thing? You've got special services keeping an eye on a crowd looking for people who are potentially naughty. All that we're talking about here is automating it. Police throughout the ages have used a person's appearance and body language as a possible cue for their poor behavior. Don't be so silly to think that a well dressed guy in a business suit walking down the street is as likely to mug somebody as a punk in scrubby clothes and prison tats. Cops know better and use their brains. This sytem (in theory) would, too.

What ever happened to a presumption of innocence? There have been many times that I have had thoughts about things that may or may not have been legal and I am sure those thoughts might have triggered some uncontrollable twitch or signal that this would likely detect. That doesn't mean that I would have ever acted on them.

This type of profiling assumes guilt first. Kinda the exact opposite of our form of judicial system, don't you think?
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Don't you think a presidential detail does the same thing? You've got special services keeping an eye on a crowd looking for people who are potentially naughty. All that we're talking about here is automating it. Police throughout the ages have used a person's appearance and body language as a possible cue for their poor behavior. Don't be so silly to think that a well dressed guy in a business suit walking down the street is as likely to mug somebody as a punk in scrubby clothes and prison tats. Cops know better and use their brains. This sytem (in theory) would, too.

Aha!! We can tell what you're REALLY thinking. You thought your shifty lion eyes could fool us? How dare you! Off to Gitmo!!!
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Don't you think a presidential detail does the same thing? You've got special services keeping an eye on a crowd looking for people who are potentially naughty. All that we're talking about here is automating it. Police throughout the ages have used a person's appearance and body language as a possible cue for their poor behavior. Don't be so silly to think that a well dressed guy in a business suit walking down the street is as likely to mug somebody as a punk in scrubby clothes and prison tats. Cops know better and use their brains. This sytem (in theory) would, too.

What ever happened to a presumption of innocence? There have been many times that I have had thoughts about things that may or may not have been legal and I am sure those thoughts might have triggered some uncontrollable twitch or signal that this would likely detect. That doesn't mean that I would have ever acted on them.

This type of profiling assumes guilt first. Kinda the exact opposite of our form of judicial system, don't you think?

How does it assume guilt? Isn't the whole idea of profiling to be to narrow down on suspects to investigate using some intelligent means, instead of the completely random system we've currently got going? You'd not be picked out by the system to be sent off for jail; merely for further inspection.
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Don't you think a presidential detail does the same thing? You've got special services keeping an eye on a crowd looking for people who are potentially naughty. All that we're talking about here is automating it. Police throughout the ages have used a person's appearance and body language as a possible cue for their poor behavior. Don't be so silly to think that a well dressed guy in a business suit walking down the street is as likely to mug somebody as a punk in scrubby clothes and prison tats. Cops know better and use their brains. This sytem (in theory) would, too.

What ever happened to a presumption of innocence? There have been many times that I have had thoughts about things that may or may not have been legal and I am sure those thoughts might have triggered some uncontrollable twitch or signal that this would likely detect. That doesn't mean that I would have ever acted on them.

This type of profiling assumes guilt first. Kinda the exact opposite of our form of judicial system, don't you think?

How does it assume guilt? Isn't the whole idea of profiling to be to narrow down on suspects to investigate using some intelligent means, instead of the completely random system we've currently got going? You'd not be picked out by the system to be sent off for jail; merely for further inspection.

Inspection for what? Because I twitched in a manner that this system depicts as "abnormal" or "suspect"?

What is this inspection going to be like? "Did you or did you not have a thought a few moments ago that could be harmful to someone?"
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Don't you think a presidential detail does the same thing? You've got special services keeping an eye on a crowd looking for people who are potentially naughty. All that we're talking about here is automating it. Police throughout the ages have used a person's appearance and body language as a possible cue for their poor behavior. Don't be so silly to think that a well dressed guy in a business suit walking down the street is as likely to mug somebody as a punk in scrubby clothes and prison tats. Cops know better and use their brains. This sytem (in theory) would, too.

What ever happened to a presumption of innocence? There have been many times that I have had thoughts about things that may or may not have been legal and I am sure those thoughts might have triggered some uncontrollable twitch or signal that this would likely detect. That doesn't mean that I would have ever acted on them.

This type of profiling assumes guilt first. Kinda the exact opposite of our form of judicial system, don't you think?
This system has nothing to do with innocence or guilt - it is simply there to present real agents with a list of potential threats. It's still up to real live people to react accordingly.

This is called a Force Multiplier.

If the system is able to narrow down a list of the potential threats in very large crowds, and present that information to agents whose job it is to respond accordingly, then I can't see anything wrong with it at all.
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The technology is certainly possible, and it's real. The systems are essentially advanced facial recognition software performing a near real-time neurel analysis on surveilance footage. Studies have been going on for years to establish a baseline for body language and facial gestures (See: Kenesics) that may indicate a pending hostile act. Airport screeners, intelligence personnel, and law enforcement officers are being trained in the same subject - and have been for decades!

"Reading people" is a science, and it's quite feasable to use computers and video to accomplish the same thing. The goal would be to eliminate false-positives and achieve a 99.9% accuracy rating.

Implementing this at airports, Superbowls, and other events that draw large crowds doesnt sound bad to me. The system would be doing the same thing officers and others are already trained to do now. How would automating the process and utilizing surveilance systems that are already in place be a bad thing?

There is always the chance for abuse of the systems, but that will occur with or without this new technology. That's called the human factor.

Yes, it's great, assuming the magic engineering fairy comes along and accomplishes that goal. "Reading people" is certainly quite possible, trained professionals can become quite good at it. The problem is that they are only good when the sample is limited in size and limited mostly to people likely to have done something anyways. So few people are actually terrorists that turning this system on the public at large will be virtually useless...it will either be clogged with false positives or miss the tiny number of true threats. Needless to say, this is a problem with any broadly targeted solution, and the reason police states aren't as safe as you might imagine.
 
Originally posted by: palehorse74
This system has nothing to do with innocence or guilt - it is simply there to present real agents with a list of potential threats. It's still up to real live people to react accordingly.

This is called a Force Multiplier.

If the system is able to narrow down a list of the potential threats in very large crowds, and present that information to agents whose job it is to respond accordingly,

then I can't see anything wrong with it at all.

Of course you wouldn't Fuher palehorse, of course you wouldn't.
 
It is not a mayan calandar. That is the funny thing. The calenar is from the city of Tula. Their empire was destroyed by the Aztecs. They merely stole the calendar to sacrafice people on top of. They had no idea what it represents. That is the funny part.
 
Anal probes for everyone !!!!! Only guilty Al Qeada suspects would be against mandatory anal probes at air ports especially based on this software. If you give an agent the wrong look after spending 5 hours waiting to get on the plane you must be guilty of something.
 
Imagine the Private Sector opportunities: Google Intentions. Register your family today for a small monthly fee and receive notices of potential infidelities!
 
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