The third time I posted this question about lap top battery life

[Lemon law]

Like many of you, I mainly use a desk top computer at home, but have a laptop when I go on the road. Which is rarely.

Even if my Li-ion battery is OEM standard capacity, I at best get 2 hours of operation on battery power alone, which is about standard par for the course. And that of course is contingent on the battery being fully charged to start with. I can live with that. WHICH IS SO NOT THE QUESTION I ASK.

As I ask, why does my Li-ion battery in my lap top self discharge so rapidily when I leave it in the total off state for a month or so. As I can take a fully charged battery, then turn my lap top off, leave it for a month, and I usually have only 9% charge left. WHERE DID THE CHARGE GO?

So last month, to get a better answer, I totally rmoved the battery from my lap top after I turned off, and stored the battery at room temperature on a nearby shelf, waited one month, and put the battery back into the lap top, and booted it up today, and found I had almost 100% battery power left.

Which tells me that my lap top is eating battery when off, and I need to find a way to STOP that SHIT.

Because I never know when I might have an AC power outage and my lap top will become the only way I have to access the larger world in my unpredictble hour of need. I have a barrery powered modem that will give me 4 hours of wirless internet, but that does little good without a fully charged laptop battery.

 

[ThatsABigOne]

Well, the power could be used to deliver power to USB interfaces, so for example, you could still charge your Iphone or Android device while the computer is off.

My MSI X460DX in sleep mode, with lid closed, drains about 5% of battery per hour. Its USB interface is still ON, so I can charge my phone while the computer is in the backpack. I have not tested with computer totally shutdown.(I simply do not have time to shut it down because I use it everyday for 5 hours.)

My 2000 Dell Latitude C600 with P3 850mhz wears its 2 batteries 10% per hour in the standby mode. WTF. I tried to find the source of power usage, but no go... So it must be the batteries...

I hope other people can chime in.

 

[podspi]

As others stated, your machine might have a feature to power the USB ports while it is off. There might be an option to disable that in BIOS. Other than that, I don't think there is much you can do. If you find yourself relying on your laptop often in the case of power outages, etc, you might want to consider buying another battery. They usually aren't that expensive ($40 on eBay). I have three for my laptop. A new battery might also help with the battery life, since 2 hours seems pretty short for me. The battery might be shot.

 

[corkyg]

My laptop usage parallels yours. It goes with me on trips about 3 times a year average. The rest of the time it sits. I do power up once a week to keep things updated. As for the battery, . . . I remove it and store it when not traveling - run on A/C only. As you found, it keeps the battery fresher for a longer life. A 45-50% charge is recommended for long term storage.

 

[WackyDan]

My laptop usage parallels yours. It goes with me on trips about 3 times a year average. The rest of the time it sits. I do power up once a week to keep things updated. As for the battery, . . . I remove it and store it when not traveling - run on A/C only. As you found, it keeps the battery fresher for a longer life. A 45-50% charge is recommended for long term storage.

Spot on. However, if the laptop manufacturer supports setting charge thresholds via their power management utility then you don't need to remove the battery at all in most scenarios. Corky... Knowing you are a ThinkPad guy, I'd have thought you knew that.

I ran an R61 for nearly 3 years with minimal degradation of the battery by using charge thresholds set to charge below 50%, and here is the key... Stop charging at 97% - from when it was brand new... that was traveling near every week, and using a vehicle adapter when in a car. Yes, I lost chemical capacity as the battery aged and as I used it... But my charge cycle counts were very low and anytime you run up charge cycles on the battery you speed up that battery's demise. When I retired the R61, the battery was still giving me ample time... at least a couple hours of use. I would have had to replace the battery with my travel routines if I hadn't of set thresholds.

So.. if you are going to leave the laptop unplugged for long periods of time, it is probably best to remove the battery.

However, if you are going to be using your laptop and leave it plugged in when not on the go, then set some charging thresholds and leave the battery in.

The reason you set the upper threshold to say 97% is that minimizes the chance of any single cell in the battery from being charged past it's design threshold which also will cause damage over time therefore reducing capacity... Even though you set it to 97%, you will still see the full charge hit 98, 99 or even 100% sometimes due to that.

*I am a former field engineer for Lenovo here, but the principles still apply as long as the vendor supports charging thresholds.

 

[corkyg]

Spot on. However, if the laptop manufacturer supports setting charge thresholds via their power management utility then you don't need to remove the battery at all in most scenarios. Corky... Knowing you are a ThinkPad guy, I'd have thought you knew that.

Yep! I'm aware of that setting in PM, but I prefer to leave all of that alone due to usage pattern. Removing the battery and replacing the battery is simpler and more reliable for me. That way I don't have to diddle around through software layers.

 

[Lemon law]

Pardon me if I observe, as OP on this thread, that the best guess for a lap top leaking charge may be unused USB ports staying alive for no rational reason.

Point granted, removing the battery from the lap top is the easy solution, but the why of lap tops eating battery when in the total OFF state is unaddressed and why no one shares my outrage at a clear design defect baffles me totally.

I have a cell phone with similar battery technology. and I gave no such problems. In terms of my desk tops, when off, they have a tiny internal cmos battery that will save bios setting for at least three years.

 

[Meaker10]

I believe if a battery is to be stored it should be removed at 60% charge and be stored in a cool even temperature. Like a cupboard.

 

[kevinsbane]

Pardon me if I observe, as OP on this thread, that the best guess for a lap top leaking charge may be unused USB ports staying alive for no rational reason.

Point granted, removing the battery from the lap top is the easy solution, but the why of lap tops eating battery when in the total OFF state is unaddressed and why no one shares my outrage at a clear design defect baffles me totally.

I have a cell phone with similar battery technology. and I gave no such problems. In terms of my desk tops, when off, they have a tiny internal cmos battery that will save bios setting for at least three years.

Does your laptop have a yellow USB port? That is an "always on" USB port.

 

[Lemon law]

Does your laptop have a yellow USB port? That is an "always on" USB port.

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In a word no, and even then, if its the case, it fails to explain why a lap top should leak battery charge when nothing is draining its yellow or whatever other color USB port when in the off state.

Why the forum resistance to call it for what it is, a design defect that is stupid and unacceptable?

 

[kevinsbane]

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In a word no, and even then, if its the case, it fails to explain why a lap top should leak battery charge when nothing is draining its yellow or whatever other color USB port when in the off state.

Why the forum resistance to call it for what it is, a design defect that is stupid and unacceptable?

The USB controller must be on in order to detect whether or not a device is connected. If an "always-on" USB port is present, and the device is set to enable charging while off/hibernate/sleeping, the controller will drain power even while the computer is off. The controller itself draws a small amount of power even if you're not charging anything.

From Wiki (they call it "sleep and charge" ports)

Sleep-and-charge USB ports remain powered even when the computer is off. On laptops, charging devices from the USB port when it is not being powered from AC will drain the laptop battery faster.

Whether or not that causes your power to drain that quickly, it is a possibility.

 

[Lemon law]

The USB controller must be on in order to detect whether or not a device is connected. If an "always-on" USB port is present, and the device is set to enable charging while off/hibernate/sleeping, the controller will drain power even while the computer is off. The controller itself draws a small amount of power even if you're not charging anything.

From Wiki (they call it "sleep and charge" ports)



Whether or not that causes your power to drain that quickly, it is a possibility.

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As kevenbane again present the USB controller explanation. And links in a wiki answer
of a sleep and charge port vocabulary fancy word answer. The point is my desktops also has USB ports, none of which are sleep and charge ports. If I don't need any sleep and charge ports on my desktop, why the hell would I need such a port on a laptop?

Now if kevenbane can tell me how to disable my laptop sleep and discharge port, that I need like a hole in my head, then I would do so and my problem would be totally solved.

But what I know by my experiment that 91% of my battery power will leak away in a month when left in the lap top in the off state. Which implies my battery is worn out, failing, and needs replacement. But when I remove the battery from the laptop for the same month period, and little or no charge leaks, it tells me my battery is still in good condition and has no problems.

What is lacking in this thread is a single rational reason laptop design should permit this counterproductive stupidity. Is it just monkey see monkey do as designers just ape previous lap top designs?

 

[kevinsbane]

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As kevenbane again present the USB controller explanation. And links in a wiki answer
of a sleep and charge port vocabulary fancy word answer. The point is my desktops also has USB ports, none of which are sleep and charge ports. If I don't need any sleep and charge ports on my desktop, why the hell would I need such a port on a laptop?

Someone else evidently thought that it was necessary, and implemented the spec (Toshiba?). If it is true, whether or not you like the answer won't change reality, unfortunately.

Now if kevenbane can tell me how to disable my laptop sleep and discharge port, that I need like a hole in my head, then I would do so and my problem would be totally solved.

As to how to disable it on your laptop, I don't know. For my laptop, a Lenovo x220, I can disable it in my BIOS. I can also change the behaviour such that it only activates when plugged in, or in sleep mode (but not off). You may or may not even have that particular port. Try googling your laptop model + "how to disable sleep and charge USB".

But what I know by my experiment that 91% of my battery power will leak away in a month when left in the lap top in the off state. Which implies my battery is worn out, failing, and needs replacement. But when I remove the battery from the laptop for the same month period, and little or no charge leaks, it tells me my battery is still in good condition and has no problems.

What is lacking in this thread is a single rational reason laptop design should permit this counterproductive stupidity. Is it just monkey see monkey do as designers just ape previous lap top designs?

The always on USB design came out ~2008, so it is a fairly recent development. Are you asking a separate question concerning the point of the always on USB design now? Because that's different from what your OP asked.

 

[podspi]

What is lacking in this thread is a single rational reason laptop design should permit this counterproductive stupidity. Is it just monkey see monkey do as designers just ape previous lap top designs?

I think given the way most people use laptops, and the proliferation of mobile devices that charge via USB, it makes a lot of sense.

I am literally the only person I know with a laptop that uses it on the go. Everyone else just uses it plugged in. While I think that is silly, people insist it is great. Whatever. If your laptop is plugged in all the time, and lots of devices charge via USB, it is easy to see how a port that can power equipment while your machine is off could be convenient. Heck, I have turned on my computer just to charge things before. I would love it if my motherboard had a charge USB port.

If that isn't the problem, then chances are there is just some design defect in the machine that causes the battery to drain, the machine isn't truly turning off (sleep mode), or there is an event timer causing the machine to wake up periodically. The former is something you need/can complain about to the manufacturer, the latter two are things you can fix yourself.

 

[WackyDan]

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As kevenbane again present the USB controller explanation. And links in a wiki answer
of a sleep and charge port vocabulary fancy word answer. The point is my desktops also has USB ports, none of which are sleep and charge ports. If I don't need any sleep and charge ports on my desktop, why the hell would I need such a port on a laptop?

I use my USB port all the time to keep my phone charged. I'll be sitting in the airport or on the plane and just use the laptop on standby via that port to charge the phone. Works great... So there is a need and people do use it.

You have not 100% established that it is the USB port discharging your laptop though have you?

 

[Lemon law]

I use my USB port all the time to keep my phone charged. I'll be sitting in the airport or on the plane and just use the laptop on standby via that port to charge the phone. Works great... So there is a need and people do use it.

You have not 100% established that it is the USB port discharging your laptop though have you?

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Two points granted WachyDan, (1) I was unable to conceive of any rational reason anyone would use their laptop as a traveling battery charger and here you prove the concept is useful to you. Still leaving me baffled why it would be of any use to me. (2) You are also correct to note I lack any proof that my battery leakage is due to USB sleep and discharge ports, which is exactly my thread question still unanswered. But I am 100% sure that SOMETHING cause the battery to LEAL CHARGE when left in the laptop and that SOMETHING does not occur when the battery is removed from the laptop for an equal time period. Its precisely that SOMETHING X factor I am seeking on the thread question that I asked. .

But at least Kevinbane holds out hope for a future experiment if I can find a way to shut off sleep and discharge ports in my laptop bios. An experiment I plan to soon try but I have not found enough time to try it yet.

 

[SonicIce]

its obviously using power for something