The thing will not POST...what happens if your BIOS does not support a cpu?

[Winterpool]

Some time ago a friend passed down to me an old Athlon X2 3800+ (AM2). He had been keeping it in a Camel Lights cigarette pack, so I had my doubts, but eventually, in late November, I bought an ASUS M3A78-EM motherboard to try with the old Athlon.

A few weeks ago, I finally got round to putting the thing together. Placed the board inside an old Antec case I had sitting round (how old? I think it's an Antec SX1040B) and added a new Corsair 400CX power supply, a couple of 512 MB sticks of old DDR2 memory, and switched on the power... The fans spun up, including the cpu fan, but there was no video signal and no beep. (I was using the AMD 780G board's integrated graphics via DVI.)

I decided the cpu was probably bad, since almost everything else was new (and since it had been domiciled inside a Camel Lights pack). A week or two ago, I ordered an Athlon II X4 635, which is technically socket AM3. However, as I had ordered the board in late November from Newegg, I felt confident the BIOS would support AM3 cpus. Well, I installed the cpu today and got... the same symptoms: spinning fans, no video, no beeps.

I'm still reluctant to blame the ASUS motherboard. It's new, there's no visible damage, and its LED lights up. However, perhaps its BIOS is to blame. I just looked at the ASUS website, and it appears the Athlon II X4 635 has only been supported since BIOS 2002 (24 Sep 2009). As I bought the board in late Nov, I suppose it's possible the BIOS is older than Sep.

If a BIOS doesn't support a cpu, what typically happens during the initial attempt to POST?

 

[Fayd]

generally there's *some* rudimentary support. like stuck to 1 core or something. should pop up with "unrecognized CPU" or something like that.

the 1 core thing is the only thing i've seen... i havent tried many unsupported CPU's. only time i saw that is when i put a manchester x2 3800+ in my KN8-SLI. still, it allowed me to install windows, and update bios through windows. (i learned later that that would be a bad idea. i got lucky that time.)

 

[RebateMonger]

A few months ago, I bought a two sets of a combo motherboard/CPU deal. It was an Intel Core2Quad CPU and an MSI motherboard, as I recall.

I had horrible problems getting it to work. I was trying to run everything at recommended speeds with no overclocking of anything. But the BIOS kept resetting the memory speed to a higher, non-standard speed. It would boot one time, and then not boot the next. It would crash when I installed a high-end video card. It'd run for a while and then freeze.

After many hours of frustration, I re-examined the MSI CPU Compatibility charts. It appeared that, maybe, the CPU wasn't compatible with the BIOS version. But a check of MSI's site didn't show a BIOS update.

Finally, I tried MSI's Windows-based online update service. IT found a newer BIOS version (that wasn't listed on MSI's support site) and installed it.

After that, both systems were completely stable.

 

[Winterpool]

Jah, I had a feeling that since the Athlon II X4 635 is not too different from other Athlon IIs, I would get some kind of POST with a fairly recent BIOS, even if it wasn't fully fledged support. But I don't get any video at all, and no beeps.

 

[mfenn]

I would suspect the mobo. CPUs are generally pretty tough. If there's no obvious damage (bent pins or whatever), I would imagine that the 3800 is OK.

EDIT: Oh and make sure that you have the P4 power connector plugged in!

 

[nboy22]

Sounds like either a mobo or a RAM/bios issue to me... Personally I just had a problem with a new core i7 920 build on an Asrock mobo. It did the exact same thing, where it would boot up, fans spin, no post, no picture. I could only get it to run when on one stick of RAM... I did a bios upgrade, and then a downgrade to a different bios version and it worked fine after that.

Have you tried running it with just one RAM stick?

 

[Fayd]

yeah, i wouldnt have been so quick to think the CPU the culprit to begin with.

when i had that exact error (or rather, someone i was walking through building a comp) it turned out their memory was in the wrong slots.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Integrated graphics used to require a stick of ram in slot one to have video. Don't know if that is still true.

Agreed that it's hard to believe the cpu was damaged if it was good to start with.

Did you test on the bench before installing everything?

 

[Winterpool]

Tried single stick and obtained same symptoms. With one exception: the computer would no longer shut down when I pressed in the case power button. I had to switch off the power supply itself. Mmm.

Something that just occurred to me: is my memory possibly too slow? It seems to be this memory... I had assumed it was DDR2 667, but it's in fact 533. Could this be too slow for this chipset and cpu?

That said, shouldn't the board simply run at the slower memory speed, even if it isn't ideal?

Edited: ASUS product page lists only DDR2 667 to 1066 compatible memory. But would DDR2 533 really fail to POST? I should think I'd get some sort of visible memory error. Or perhaps that's not likely since the integrated graphics would be using this memory...
(And, really, ASUS, I have to prove I'm not a robot and then download a ZIP of a PDF to view your approved memory list?!)

 

[betasub]

If your memory fails to run at the lowest speed supported by the BIOS/motherboard, then failure to POST can be expected - although normally with a beep code error.

 

[pcgeek11]

Why not just get the newest BIOS and flash it.

 

[Udgnim]

would update BIOS

I bought an E8500 / ECS mobo a while back from Frys and the ECS mobo would actually not post with the E8500 CPU. a BIOS update was required for compatibility with the E8XXX series, but I didn't have a compatible CPU to pop in to update.

I wonder how many returns Frys got back. I ended up buying a P45-UD3P mobo since the ECS mobo was basically a free tag along to me, although it's paired with an E2160 now.

 

[nboy22]

At this point you are probably better off (if you can) finding a piece of ram that meets the motherboard's speicifications ex. 667 instead of 533 and try that.

Flashing the bios is gonna be really tough if you have no post!

 

[NickelPlate]

That can definitely happen and recently happened to me. In the process of flashing a new BIOS on my old P5B-E using the Windows utility the BIOS checksum got corrupted and the system wouldn't POST. Thankfully the board had a rudimentary utility that recognized this and allowed me to reflash the BIOS from the original CD that came with the MB.

Long story short, that old BIOS didn't support my Q9550 and the MB still wouldn't POST after the reflash. I had to install my old C2D E6700 to get a working machine then reflash the newer BIOS in DOS then reinstall my quad and am back up and running.

 

[Winterpool]

I did have the Athlon X2 3800+ in the board earlier, which I should think would be supported by the BIOS. Of course, that was the cpu from the Camel Lights pack, so it's possible the cpu was wonky. And it was trying to use the 'slow' memory.

Scenario 1: BIOS needs to be updated for new cpu; original cpu was dead

Scenario 2: Memory too slow for either cpu

Scenario 3: Both BIOS and memory are at fault, heh

Left my parents' house, so I shan't be able to test the machine this week. Hope to get my hands on some faster DDR2 by then. At worst, I'll salvage some DDR2 from another machine there. If I need to flash the BIOS, I suppose I'll have to temporarily swap in one of their Athlon X2s as well. What a pain this is turning out to be...

 

[Fayd]

scenario 4: motherboard is dead

scenario 5: you didnt plug everything in right.

there's always more possibilities.

 

[Winterpool]

Of course! The possibilities for failure are nearly endless; those for success somewhat more constrained.

I do hope this motherboard is fine. I hate having to RMA boards.

 

[Winterpool]

Update: returned to my parents' house with some brand-new Crucial Ballistix (PC2 6400) given to me by a friend. (Jah, I realise Ballistix wasn't the most reliable DDR2 memory...)

Inserted a single DIMM (1 GB), switched on the power, and obtained... exactly the same symptoms (spinning fan, no beeps, no video).

Frack, I was very much hoping not to have to RMA this board.

I'm going to try the Athlon X2 3800+ again with the new memory, especially given the possible BIOS issues with the Athlon II X4.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Does the USB ports support your coffee maker????

 

[Winterpool]

Tried a third cpu in the ASUS board -- this one an old socket AM2 Athlon X2 4200+, so the BIOS should definitely be compatible. No POST.

Should I concede that the motherboard's dead, Jim?

Let this be a lesson unto you, boys and girls: always test your kit within the return period. Now I've to suffer through the RMA process.

I realised this week that I've one of those diagnostic PCI cards. If I can dig it up, perhaps I could see if the thing actually provides useful information...

 

[mfenn]

Tried a third cpu in the ASUS board -- this one an old socket AM2 Athlon X2 4200+, so the BIOS should definitely be compatible. No POST.

Should I concede that the motherboard's dead, Jim?

Let this be a lesson unto you, boys and girls: always test your kit within the return period. Now I've to suffer through the RMA process.

I realised this week that I've one of those diagnostic PCI cards. If I can dig it up, perhaps I could see if the thing actually provides useful information...

Hate to say I told ya so, but I told ya so! :awe:

 

[Winterpool]

Hate to say I told ya so, but I told ya so! :awe:

But... the light on the motherboard... it glows green! It must be OK then, right?

Now, I really regret not getting a 'free' motherboard from Micro Centre...

What's the cheapest acceptable socket AM2+ motherboard available right now?

 

[mfenn]

But... the light on the motherboard... it glows green! It must be OK then, right?

Now, I really regret not getting a 'free' motherboard from Micro Centre...

What's the cheapest acceptable socket AM2+ motherboard available right now?

Something like the MSI 740GTM-P21 @ $50 would serve you well as long as you only need to use a 95W TDP chip. Something like the Gigabyte GA-MA78LM-S2H @ $60 will support 125W chips.

 

[Winterpool]

I tried one of those PCI-slot diagnostics cards, and it gave me the code (and only this code) 'FF'. My manual translates this to 'Flash ROM programming was successful; next, restarting the system BIOS'. Er...

However, some Googling discovers that if you get a '00' or 'FF' code at the start, without cycling through other codes first, then your motherboard is probably dead / BIOS inaccessible.

Does anyone know how to submit an RMA for an ASUS board? I've been on their site for half an hour now and can't find anything relating to motherboard returns, other than a note that ASUS boards are guaranteed for 3 years (is that true?!). It's too late to return to Newegg as I've had the board for five months.

 

[mfenn]

I tried one of those PCI-slot diagnostics cards, and it gave me the code (and only this code) 'FF'. My manual translates this to 'Flash ROM programming was successful; next, restarting the system BIOS'. Er...

However, some Googling discovers that if you get a '00' or 'FF' code at the start, without cycling through other codes first, then your motherboard is probably dead / BIOS inaccessible.

Does anyone know how to submit an RMA for an ASUS board? I've been on their site for half an hour now and can't find anything relating to motherboard returns, other than a note that ASUS boards are guaranteed for 3 years (is that true?!). It's too late to return to Newegg as I've had the board for five months.

Here