The TEST Part 3

[DKlein]

Okay, so to recap, here's the idea:
Online test gauging people's knowledge of computers, with multiple-choice questions made by the users on AT. Questions will range in difficulty from super-easy, to impossibly tough.

Here's the past two threads on it: The Original, The Difficulty Levels.

What has been decided is that we will have 10 difficulty levels, with 5 being considered knowledge that the "average" computer user should know (note that this means the test is skewed slightly to be more sensitive to the higher-end of computer smarts). It will also be a non-linear scale such as this: Graph

Before we start writing the questions, though, we need to figure out what categories we want questions in, how many questions per category, whether or not certain categories (e.g. programming) should be limited to the higher-level questions, how we're going to "score" people's tests (e.g. more points for harder questions, not allowed to go on to harder levels without passing earlier level questions, etc.),how we're going to go about getting the questions, and anything else you guys think is important. Yeah, I know, lets just start writing the questions already...

So, ideas? Comments?

 

[minofifa]

so, in terms of this graph funtion

the difference between a 1 and a 3 is pretty huge
the difference between a 4 and a 6 is not so big
the difference between an 8 and a 10 is pretty big again?

is that how we will interpret people's scare?

 

[DKlein]

Pretty much, minofifa

The 1s would basically be Amish in their computer knowledge.

The 2s would basically know a little bit. They'd understand what a monitor is, what a computer is, what a mouse is. Very basic stuff, though.

The 3s would understand basic concepts about the internet, maybe know a few shortcut keys, these are the people that can follow the directions for installations with relatively little problems, the sort of people that programmers have in mind when they design this stuff.

The 4s would be close to your average user. They can move files around, find files, set preferences, understand what a virus is, albeit their understanding would be quite basic, etc.

The 5s are the lower end of the average user. They use their computers regularly, but still don't know what "defragging" is in reference to. They could install Windows themselves, if they hadn't bought their computer from Dell. They might even understand there's this thing called "overclocking," and it makes things go faster.

The 6s are the upper end of the average user. They use their computers regularly, and maybe even run virus checks and defrag every so ofter. These are the people that actually learned something about the machine they use, but still know very little. They understand that things like MHz refer to speed, GB refer to storage size, but probably don't understand the difference between a 10GB and a 10Gb hard drive.

The 7s are the guys that have taken an interest in their computers. Maybe it's your younger brother, just starting out into overclocking or building his own system. They have a general idea of what's going on, but will still say "nVidia 6800GT is teh roxorz becus it has PS3.0, whatever that is." They overlock sometimes, but also tend to burn up motherboards and processors after a few weeks and wonder, "why did that happen? Seemed fine right after I o/c'd... maybe I should have done that hole 'stress testing' thing?" They give advice to their less-knowledgeable friends, despite knowing very little themselves.

The 8s are a lot more knowledgeable than those 7s. They are experienced overclockers or computer builders. Not quite A+ certified, not experts, but they can explain what IRQs are all about, the difference between Intel's HT and AMD's HTT, and could explain why the 6800GT roxorz so much, but with some actual knowledge. Still, they aren't perfect by any means. They will give advice to friends, correct their 7s on occasion, but will fail at figuring out harder troubleshooting problems and run over to AT to get the answers.

The 9s are the "experts." They know what the 8s wish they knew, and what the 7s don't even know they don't know. The 9s laugh at the ignorance of the masses, and carry on conversations among themselves over the benefits of the different software applications, processor architectures, and operating systems. Still, they can be wrong sometimes, and aren't perfect. They know a lot, but their knowledge is by no means supreme. They can't make a decent tweaking guide for Windows, they can't design their own motherboard, and their knowledge is not really complete on anything. They will not be getting jobs at Microsoft anytime soon.

The 10s are the best of the best. Want to know who coded your clean disk utility? One of these guys. Who designed the GPU in your video card? One of these guys. These guys come in to correct the 9s when they miss something, and they just know that they're the best - it's like being in love. Want to know ultimately why that stick of RAM isn't quite working well with your motherboard? These guys will tell you, and give you a 100 page explanation in the process. They can go on for hours on the simplest questions. They are the computer gods.

This is the way I'm looking at it at least. Names are still iffy, but this is the general layout.

 

[nineball9]

Cross-platform?

 

[ribbon13]

Ditto. I doubt the average windows user knows a Unix prompt or vi commands. And will a IBM Power programmer care about the NX register?

 

[jdport]

While it's true that an "accomplished" windows user could get there without ever seeing a Unix prompt, I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say that just about everybody who uses windows into the 7+ range on the scale as you described it has at least some knowledge of Unix and other operating systems. I'd rank myself somewhere between 7 and 8 I think (without taking a test and quantifying it expressly) and I feel comfortable with pretty much any OS... be it Windows, Linux, or Solaris, HP-UX, Irix, AIX.. whatever. When you get to a certain level of understanding, the operating system doesn't matter all that much.... because you know what's going on and anybody can look up the syntax of whatever command you are looking for. I haven't touched a Mac in many years but I'm confident that I could sit down at one and in not to much time be working with it comfortably just because I think I do understand computers well enough to pick up anything I haven't worked with before. So... I don't tihnk it would be a bad idea to include a bit of generic Unix, Linux, whatever in the questions to separate the experts from the "higher end average user".

And no I don't consider myself an expert Like I said I think i'd fit somewhere in between 7 and 8, those of you in that 9-10 range I bow to you.

-Jeff

 

[MrControversial]

How would you administer this test? What would prevent someone from googling all the answers to make himself seem like he knows so much. Will it be timed? You should time it to make sure that they don't have time to look around for the answers.

 

[Sqube]

Being proficient in Windows doesn't automatically mean you know something about other operating systems.

 

[ribbon13]

Googling for all the answer is what gets some one who is actually a 9 or 10 there in the first place!

 

[MrControversial]

Then we need generalized OS questions like what is a kernel? What is a semaphore? Why do computers need an OS?

 

[minofifa]

Originally posted by: MrControversial
How would you administer this test? What would prevent someone from googling all the answers to make himself seem like he knows so much. Will it be timed? You should time it to make sure that they don't have time to look around for the answers.

I would think the opposite. I think you should have as much time as you want to look stuff up. after all, it is the smart people who know where to look. if it were timed, it would be more trivial, people who for some reason knew an abstract fact about a product would have an unfiar advantage to those who knew the concepts better.

it would be tough to make sure people didn't cheat though

 

[MrControversial]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
Googling for all the answer is what gets some one who is actually a 9 or 10 there in the first place!

And I'm an example of a chronic googler. However, what's the purpose of this test if you can google all the answers while you take it and get a 10 score.

 

[ribbon13]

Like this test is gonna really be a reputable benchmark to someone's computing knowledge anyway. It would take Herculean effort to do such a thing.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: DKlein
Pretty much, minofifa

The 1s would basically be Amish in their computer knowledge.

The 2s would basically know a little bit. They'd understand what a monitor is, what a computer is, what a mouse is. Very basic stuff, though.

The 3s would understand basic concepts about the internet, maybe know a few shortcut keys, these are the people that can follow the directions for installations with relatively little problems, the sort of people that programmers have in mind when they design this stuff.

The 4s would be close to your average user. They can move files around, find files, set preferences, understand what a virus is, albeit their understanding would be quite basic, etc.

The 5s are the lower end of the average user. They use their computers regularly, but still don't know what "defragging" is in reference to. They could install Windows themselves, if they hadn't bought their computer from Dell. They might even understand there's this thing called "overclocking," and it makes things go faster.

The 6s are the upper end of the average user. They use their computers regularly, and maybe even run virus checks and defrag every so ofter. These are the people that actually learned something about the machine they use, but still know very little. They understand that things like MHz refer to speed, GB refer to storage size, but probably don't understand the difference between a 10GB and a 10Gb hard drive.

The 7s are the guys that have taken an interest in their computers. Maybe it's your younger brother, just starting out into overclocking or building his own system. They have a general idea of what's going on, but will still say "nVidia 6800GT is teh roxorz becus it has PS3.0, whatever that is." They overlock sometimes, but also tend to burn up motherboards and processors after a few weeks and wonder, "why did that happen? Seemed fine right after I o/c'd... maybe I should have done that hole 'stress testing' thing?" They give advice to their less-knowledgeable friends, despite knowing very little themselves.

The 8s are a lot more knowledgeable than those 7s. They are experienced overclockers or computer builders. Not quite A+ certified, not experts, but they can explain what IRQs are all about, the difference between Intel's HT and AMD's HTT, and could explain why the 6800GT roxorz so much, but with some actual knowledge. Still, they aren't perfect by any means. They will give advice to friends, correct their 7s on occasion, but will fail at figuring out harder troubleshooting problems and run over to AT to get the answers.

The 9s are the "experts." They know what the 8s wish they knew, and what the 7s don't even know they don't know. The 9s laugh at the ignorance of the masses, and carry on conversations among themselves over the benefits of the different software applications, processor architectures, and operating systems. Still, they can be wrong sometimes, and aren't perfect. They know a lot, but their knowledge is by no means supreme. They can't make a decent tweaking guide for Windows, they can't design their own motherboard, and their knowledge is not really complete on anything. They will not be getting jobs at Microsoft anytime soon.

The 10s are the best of the best. Want to know who coded your clean disk utility? One of these guys. Who designed the GPU in your video card? One of these guys. These guys come in to correct the 9s when they miss something, and they just know that they're the best - it's like being in love. Want to know ultimately why that stick of RAM isn't quite working well with your motherboard? These guys will tell you, and give you a 100 page explanation in the process. They can go on for hours on the simplest questions. They are the computer gods.

This is the way I'm looking at it at least. Names are still iffy, but this is the general layout.

I dunno man. Seems my experience shows some peeps who are great at software/programing focus on that while neglecting the HW side. Then there are many of the other types, like me and many others here, who can do you preetty well with hardware, but would rather just reformat and reinstall than fvck with the registry. Insert some code into PC game to modify it? Yeah OK cuz we're gamers.

Umm.. real life examples: While working for a big corp in NYC, our head of IT was considered really good at HW, thought to be pretty lame in software. His strength was HW. My brother, on the other hand is a professional creating softare/proggie/apps whatever. He knows lanuages I don't think I've ever heard of. Yeah, he could replace a HDD or add ram, prolly build a PC. I know he doesn't even know what a 6800gt is though. Much less things like is there a performance hit to running a 64bit cpu asynch, or a pentium, or a athlon XP.

But my feeling is that it may be too complicated if there are diff fields/areas (ex. software v HW) and then 10 levels for each.

 

[MrControversial]

I think we should just scan our degrees and certification cards. That's enough proof for me.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: MrControversial
I think we should just scan our degrees and certification cards. That's enough proof for me.

J/K yes?

There are other merits to this then bragging rights. I'm not really interested in that. For me its more for fun and learning.

If I was a pro, I'd prolly look at this like work :Q I ain't helping with any CPA kinda tests. I wouldn't consider that fun.

 

[DKlein]

Obviously people can cheat, they can cheat on just about any online test. Even if it's timed, they could just take it over again after getting the answers. Cheating would be harder for the tougher questions (9s and 10s especially) because these hopefully will be difficult enough that, if someone wanted to cheat, they'd still have to spend hours pouring through technical documents to get the answers. Most cheaters are going to be too lazy for that, I'd imagine, and those who aren't would find a way to cheat anyway.

Cross-platform? Good question. We've sort of decided that this would be a test for everyone, so you can't leave out the guys using the "better" OS's. At the same time, would your typical Windows user know much about LINUX? A little, perhaps, but would your average LINUX user know much about Windows? I'd imagine a bit more than that Windows guy knew about LINUX. So what I'm thinking is that the other OS questions would be for the higher levels, but a few basic ones could be seen lower. This is all going under the programming category, which is just one of many we should be thinking about, though.

I realize everyone has different forte's in computing, and a 10 in programming could be a 6 or 7 in harware. Really I just wanted to make a fun online test, simple but tough at the same time, and hopefully learn a little something in the process. Also it'd be a nice chance for you AT guys to throw out some tough questions, and take the opportunity to "show your stuff." Trivial knowledge about current market trends and products will be minimal hopefully, and the test will be spread out among a number of categories. Just to start us off on these categories, here are those that Fern suggested:

*Gen Hardware (what is this part and what is it's function, whats IDE, SATA),

*CPU's and OCing, Cases and cooling (do I need case fans, which way should blow air etc, how big a PSU do I need etc)

*Motherboards (How to change FSB, vcore vdimm, whats DC, how to clear CMOS)

*Networking (How to, troubleshooting etc.)

*Software and Apps (How to install, restore, clone etc.)

*Video (what diff between AGP v PCI v PCI-e. Whats AA & AF)

and I have added to this

*programming/OS

*market knowledge (what's the best video card, how do the XPs compare to the P4s, etc)

 

[Fern]

Bump for volunteers to help with test. Beginners welcome! What questions would like answered or are curious about?

Mid-level and expert too. Need all kinds. This is intended to be fun and promote learning (at least to me anyway). No pressure. Just help when you can, where (diff areas) you can.

for those who volunteer PM me or DKlein or post here.

Fern

 

[DKlein]

Well, I'll give this one last bump for the categories and test make up. I don't think we've really decided on what the actual test will be like yet. I guess the categories seem good, but there have been a lot of suggestions for timed tests, different formats, etc, I'd like to get figured out. In the mean time, however, we could start submitting questions.

New thread for actual question submissions HERE.

 

[Pariah]

No offense, but I think this entire endeavor is a waste of time that isn't going to produce anything useful. Unless the tests contain a HUGE number of questions, their accuracy will be pretty much nil. Imagine someone who happened to tune in for the one episode of Jeopardy that Ken Jennings lost. From that small sample of questions, they'd conclude that he wasn't all that smart, since he got beat. Except for the fact, they missed the other 74 episodes that he won and clearly proved to be exceptionally knowledgable on a wide variety of topics. A number of potential questions you list above are opinions, not factual knowledge that can be graded. Not to mention, potential cheating among other uncontrollable problems makes this a project destined for failure.

Also, the smartest people aren't necessarily the people that have all the answers. Knowing where to find the answers is often more useful than knowing the actual answer. A much more potentially useful exercise would be to create a list of informational sites that cover various topics in detail. This would NOT be a list of enthusiast review websites (like Anand, THG, etc), or message boards, but of sites that only contain useful non-opinion based information about various computer related topics.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

 

[Fern]

All good points, but I think it depends on one's expectations of such a test. IMO, this test cannot be something "official" like a test administered by a state Board of Professional for MD, attorneys, CPA's etc. Or a A+ cert.

I anticipate questions/answers of opinion, not fact will be "weeded out" in the process of putting it together.

Cheating? I don't see how CAN be prevented. Universities/schools etc can't seem to do that either.

I agree that knowing where to find the answers is important. As a Tax CPA, (1) recongizing when you have an issue that needs to be researched, (2) knowing where to go to find the answer, and (3) be able to comprehend what you are reading if FAR more important then trying to memorize a gazillion pages of tax law/code (impossible anyway). What you can memorize just cuts down on time yuo must spend researching anyway. Moreover, ATM I personally don't see why allowing the use of research tools, such as the net, should be discouraged.

For me, its more about fun, learning, measuring what areas you can improve upon etc. (Maybe even some pro's will be "surprised". Ex. I've been told by some pro's win98se can't function on systems with a cpu higher than 2 gigs, which is bull. I've got it on both Intel and AMD systems higher than 2 gigs (I ain't talkin PR ratings either). One is an OC'd gaming systems, NO updates for 98se-just wanted to see!, P95 and Memtest stable for 24hrs. Played Far Cry all the way through w/o a prob *shrugs*).

It certainly can't be an official "Professional Certification". As for bragging rights, meh.

Fern