The terrorist connection to Iraq

[thag]

Submitted for your consideration...

The President has access to intelligence you and I will never see; he has entire agencies devoted to providing him with the best intelligence the US Military-Industrial complex can buy.

Many arguments for why the war in Iraq was started have been presented:
-We want the oil
-We want to introduce democracy
-Saddam has weapons of mass destruction
-Saddam is a threat to the region
-Saddam is a threat to the US
-We want to build an empire
-Saddam is responsible for the 11 September attacks
-etc, etc

I submit the following opinion:

The President saw intelligence that convinced him of the following *potential* chain of events which led him to "initiate regime change in Iraq":

1. Saddam Hussein was attempting to develop weapons of mass destruction
2. Al-Qaida terrorists were in Iraq
3. Saddam Hussein would gladly hand over any weapons of mass detruction to Al-Qaida terrorists if they were to be used on an attack against the US

This is the only chain of events that really makes any sense to me...other arguments seem to be "spin" and window-dressing.

I'm not saying I can't be convinced of any other viewpoints, but it would have to be a pretty persuasive argument.

Regards...

 

[RyanM]

Try this one on for size.

[*]The current terrorist threat which poses the most danger to the United States comes in the form of Islamic Fundamentalism.
[*]Islamic Fundamentalism is the result of the oppression of a people, specifically, those living in countries with a high density of Muslims, combined with State-sponsored media which blames their poverty, lack of freedom, and other such red herrings on the West.
[*]By removing a totalitarian state which creates the breeding grounds for Islamic Fundamentalism, you fight the problem at its very source, where the greatest effort should properly be directed.

By that line of reasoning, there are a number of countries which fit the criteria. Iraq, on the other hand, offers several other bonuses, which are enumerated as follows, in no specific order.

[*]Saddam Hussein was in violation of UN resolutions, and credible intelligence suggested he not only posed a threat vis-a-vis the aforementioned breeding ground for terrorists, but also in the form of weapons of mass destruction and a history of aggression towards neighbors, and a willingness to use those.
[*]Iraq possesses large reserves of oil, the sales of which could be used to offset the costs of reconstruction, which logistically, is a very good thing.
[*]Installing a Democracy in Iraq would place a democratic state, favorable to the US, right next door to Syria, with our Allies Turkey to the North, thus putting the vice on Syria and giving us leverage to use diplomacy to rid them of their terrorist threats.
[*]A Democratic Iraq and a Democratic Afghanistan would put Iran in the pincers as well.
[*]Saudi Arabia would be surrounded on a large portion of its borders with Democratic Iraq and US-friendly Kuwait.
[*]Insert other nice reasons here.

The fact is, from a strategist's point of view, Iraq is the KEYSTONE in the fight against terrorism. Period. Fullstop. Carraige return.

 

[konichiwa]

Gosh, how did we not think of that? We better just have blind faith in all of our politicians because they have "access to intelligence" that we don't. Great logic.

 

[Yossarian]

I submit that the President can do anything he wants and use the secret intelligence argument to back it up.

 

[Moonbeam]

God told George Bush to conquer Iraq. I know, but i can't reveal my sources. You would go instantly blind.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: PipBoy
I submit that the President can do anything he wants and use the secret intelligence argument to back it up.

I submit that you are pretty much right.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

We elected him because we trusted him to do the right thing with that intelligence.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: MachFive
Try this one on for size.

[*]The current terrorist threat which poses the most danger to the United States comes in the form of Islamic Fundamentalism.
[*]Islamic Fundamentalism is the result of the oppression of a people, specifically, those living in countries with a high density of Muslims, combined with State-sponsored media which blames their poverty, lack of freedom, and other such red herrings on the West.
[*]By removing a totalitarian state which creates the breeding grounds for Islamic Fundamentalism, you fight the problem at its very source, where the greatest effort should properly be directed.

By that line of reasoning, there are a number of countries which fit the criteria. Iraq, on the other hand, offers several other bonuses, which are enumerated as follows, in no specific order.

[*]Saddam Hussein was in violation of UN resolutions, and credible intelligence suggested he not only posed a threat vis-a-vis the aforementioned breeding ground for terrorists, but also in the form of weapons of mass destruction and a history of aggression towards neighbors, and a willingness to use those.
[*]Iraq possesses large reserves of oil, the sales of which could be used to offset the costs of reconstruction, which logistically, is a very good thing.
[*]Installing a Democracy in Iraq would place a democratic state, favorable to the US, right next door to Syria, with our Allies Turkey to the North, thus putting the vice on Syria and giving us leverage to use diplomacy to rid them of their terrorist threats.
[*]A Democratic Iraq and a Democratic Afghanistan would put Iran in the pincers as well.
[*]Saudi Arabia would be surrounded on a large portion of its borders with Democratic Iraq and US-friendly Kuwait.
[*]Insert other nice reasons here.

The fact is, from a strategist's point of view, Iraq is the KEYSTONE in the fight against terrorism. Period. Fullstop. Carraige return.

Arabs countries are very poor. Iraq has been under UN sanctions for 12 years and those sanctions would not have been lifted while Saddam was in power. Removing Saddam has paved the way for the sanctions to be lifted. The increased trade and money flowing into Iraq will improve the economies of many if not all of the adjoining countries. The improved economies will in part remove one of the reasons for the young Arabs to join the terrorist groups.

 

[Corn]

Gosh, how did we not think of that? You better just blindly reject anything the government says because you have a lack of intelligence that I don't. Great logic.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
We elected him because we trusted him to do the right thing with that intelligence.

You might trust him, many others don't.

 

[Moonbeam]

I always trust a man who doesn't mind stealing the Presidency.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
We elected him because we trusted him to do the right thing with that intelligence.

You might trust him, many others don't.

But the majority does. At least for now...


Any man who has the resources and intelligence to steal the presidency must be trustworthy. LOL. The majority no longer buys into the stealing the presidency rhetoric either...I hope...

 

[Buddha Bart]

in response to that list:

Key point: Iraq is not a fundamentalist islamic state.

Here's some food for thought, the full presentation given to the UN Security Council by Colin Powell:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2003/17300.htm

Factiod: When Iraq invaded Kuwait, Usama Bin Laden volunteered to the Saudi government to lead the mujahideen in a war to drive Iraq out.

bart

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: Buddha Bart
in response to that list:

Key point: Iraq is not a fundamentalist islamic state.

Here's some food for thought, the full presentation given to the UN Security Council by Colin Powell:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2003/17300.htm

Factiod: When Iraq invaded Kuwait, Usama Bin Laden volunteered to the Saudi government to lead the mujahideen in a war to drive Iraq out.

bart

Furthermore, Bin Laden has publicly voiced his dislike for Saddam. The whole Qaeda connection was just playing the 9/11 card to rally support for the invasion.

 

[BaDaBooM]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I always trust a man who doesn't mind stealing the Presidency.

He didn't steal anything. You do realize that the Presidency is not determined by popular vote, right? Do some reading on what the electoral college is. There have been 3 other presidents that were elected without the popular vote. That's how the system has worked since the country was founded.

 

[BaDaBooM]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: Buddha Bart
in response to that list:

Key point: Iraq is not a fundamentalist islamic state.

Here's some food for thought, the full presentation given to the UN Security Council by Colin Powell:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2003/17300.htm

Factiod: When Iraq invaded Kuwait, Usama Bin Laden volunteered to the Saudi government to lead the mujahideen in a war to drive Iraq out.

bart

Furthermore, Bin Laden has publicly voiced his dislike for Saddam. The whole Qaeda connection was just playing the 9/11 card to rally support for the invasion.

Funny, then why did he try to rally muslims to fight against us in Iraq? Could it be because the enemy of my enemy is my friend? I doubt he would have any problem with using Sadam to hurt the US.

 

[Buddha Bart]

Funny, then why did he try to rally muslims to fight against us in Iraq? Could it be because the enemy of my enemy is my friend? I doubt he would have any problem with using Sadam to hurt the US.

This is very true. In recent years the animosity between Usama/al-queda and Iraq/saddam have been less and less tangible. The evidince I've seen does not point to cooperation, but it does point to a much more "I've got better things to pick my battles against than you" attitude between them.


So when bitter enemies begin to band together against you, you have to ask yourself; "am I picking a fight I can win?" or perhaps "Is picking a fight the right way to go about this?"

 

[Moonbeam]

What's the electoral college? BaDa, do a little reading. Gore won in Florida. The vote counting was stopped by the Supreme Coup, but the vote was counted anyway by a bunch of news papers according to Florida law to determine all legal votes. Gore got the most. he was the winner in Florida, the real winner, that is.

 

[etech]

Moonie, start a thread about why you think Pres. Bush was not elected if you want to discuss it.

Otherwise, stop hijacking threads with your little delusions.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: Corn
Gosh, how did we not think of that? You better just blindly reject anything the government says because you have a lack of intelligence that I don't. Great logic.

Ahh you're a funny one. Your constant refuting of posts with no basis to argue against them really shows how much of a pinnacle of "intelligence" you are.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
God told George Bush to conquer Iraq. I know, but i can't reveal my sources. You would go instantly blind.

Ok... where the hell is the dam leak????

 

[Moonbeam]

Where's the leak? God only knows.

etech, please stop hijacking threads by calling my posts delusions. You just want to insult me and contribute nothing conceptual to the discusion. The fact that Bush stopped the vote count has great relevance to his lack of character.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Earlier in this thread there was a statement referring to President Bush and Intelligence.

I don't think those words Bush and Intelligence belong in the same sentance.

 

[Buddha Bart]

Originally posted by: etech
Otherwise, stop hijacking threads with your little delusions.

Originally posted by: konichiwa
Ahh you're a funny one. Your constant refuting of posts with no basis to argue against them really shows how much of a pinnacle of "intelligence" you are.

Gentelmen, Please refer to the rules for this forum, specifically number three.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: Buddha Bart
in response to that list:

Key point: Iraq is not a fundamentalist islamic state.

Here's some food for thought, the full presentation given to the UN Security Council by Colin Powell:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2003/17300.htm

Factiod: When Iraq invaded Kuwait, Usama Bin Laden volunteered to the Saudi government to lead the mujahideen in a war to drive Iraq out.

bart

Furthermore, Bin Laden has publicly voiced his dislike for Saddam. The whole Qaeda connection was just playing the 9/11 card to rally support for the invasion.

Fact, the very man the US claims met with OBL is in CUSTODY. Once they are done torturing him we should have more information. I won't comment on the acceptability of such measures, I just hope they are productive.