[The Tech Buyers Guru] Does the OS matter (in games)? Windows 7 vs. 8.1 - Surprising!

[wand3r3r]

The Tech Buyers guru wrote an excellent article on Windows 7 vs. 8.1 and gaming.

The results were quite surprising! The final results blew me away after reading the first pages!

Regardless of the pros and cons of the new interface. With the release of Windows 8.1, we decided to put the question to the test. We've compiled results in nearly a dozen benchmarks to give you a full picture of exactly how Windows 8.1 performs in games, and to put it simply, it's not that simple. Read on to learn more!

http://www.techbuyersguru.com/windowsgaming.php

The article really left me with a solid impression though. In the future I believe Windows 8.1 will have amazing potential. At first it was appearing surprising to me but wow BF4 is impressive in 8.1. I'm shocked how much of an impact Hyperthreading has on it too. Is BF4 an outlier or a sign of things to come?

That was an excellent article, props to The Tech Buyers Guru!

 

[Carfax83]

I don't know how they get such bad performance as they say with HT enabled in BF4. I play that game with HT enabled all the time and I never have bad performance.

 

[blastingcap]

The Tech Buyers guru wrote an excellent article on Windows 7 vs. 8.1 and gaming.

The results were quite surprising! The final results blew me away after reading the first pages!


[/FONT]

http://www.techbuyersguru.com/windowsgaming.php

The article really left me with a solid impression though. In the future I believe Windows 8.1 will have amazing potential. At first it was appearing surprising to me but wow BF4 is impressive in 8.1. I'm shocked how much of an impact Hyperthreading has on it too. Is BF4 an outlier or a sign of things to come?

That was an excellent article, props to The Tech Buyers Guru!

"Now, there's no getting around the fact that recording data in a multi-player round, particularly in the chaotic Siege of Shanghai level used here, is very hard to do consistently." -- from OP's cited article. Well yeah it's multiplayer on some server, you can't get identical conditions and runs. They also had to disable HT. I'd like to know about frame times not just fps, it would be more informative.

For those interested in this topic, other sites have done tests as well, such as: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/11/24/battlefield_4_windows_7_vs_81_performance_review/5
They said:

"
Gameplay Experience Advantages


Are there gameplay experience advantages under Windows 8.1 versus Windows 7 in BF4? The answer is a, "Big YES."

Under Windows 7, we experienced choppiness as we played. This was felt both in the "Test Range" map, and in multiplayer gaming sessions. The choppiness was more pronounced on the GeForce GTX 780. We could get on a straight path, in the "Test Range" and move down a straight road. As we did this, there would be a pause, or chop, in the frames randomly. It was like the game was hitching for no reason. This happened more on the GTX 780. This is under Windows 7.

When we tried this on Windows 8.1 the pausing, or hitching, or chop (however you want to describe it) was completely gone. Moving was smoother with no hitching in the game on the GTX 780. This affected both the test range and the multiplayer gaming session.

Therefore, the gameplay experience advantage under Windows 8.1 is a smoother gameplay experience in BF4 on both video cards."


That's why I'd like to know more about frametimes and not just fps. Hitching/stutter is often associated with frametimes.

P.S. Some people say HT on is actually better: http://www.overclock.net/t/1433904/...1-ht-enabled-vs-disabled-on-battlefield-4/240

 

[ShintaiDK]

The only game with benefit seems to be BF4. And I assume its more an issue of DX11.0 vs 11.1. If not credited to the crappy sloppy code disaster that is called BF4.

 

[Silverforce11]

Johan of DICE have said its due to the their own designs with handling the CPU and although they did not explicitly say it, windows 8.1 just does it better for them, so it is game specific. Is it a sign of things to come? Probably for Frostbite games.. for other game engines? So far no indications.

I'm still on win7, CBF to reformat.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I've know since win8 win7 did ever so slightly better in benchmark fps... However it is really hard for me to even think about going back. Let alone staying with it :|

 

[blastingcap]

If it's one game it's too hard to say if it's just that game working well with 8.1 or if it's the start of a trend.

 

[wand3r3r]

I don't know how they get such bad performance as they say with HT enabled in BF4. I play that game with HT enabled all the time and I never have bad performance.

Try benching it. How else can you know if it's helping or hindering? Their minimums aren't that low with HT, they are just noticeably lower.

"Now, there's no getting around the fact that recording data in a multi-player round, particularly in the chaotic Siege of Shanghai level used here, is very hard to do consistently." -- from OP's cited article. Well yeah it's multiplayer on some server, you can't get identical conditions and runs. They also had to disable HT. I'd like to know about frame times not just fps, it would be more informative.

For those interested in this topic, other sites have done tests as well, such as: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/11/24/battlefield_4_windows_7_vs_81_performance_review/5
They said:

"
Gameplay Experience Advantages


Are there gameplay experience advantages under Windows 8.1 versus Windows 7 in BF4? The answer is a, "Big YES."

Under Windows 7, we experienced choppiness as we played. This was felt both in the "Test Range" map, and in multiplayer gaming sessions. The choppiness was more pronounced on the GeForce GTX 780. We could get on a straight path, in the "Test Range" and move down a straight road. As we did this, there would be a pause, or chop, in the frames randomly. It was like the game was hitching for no reason. This happened more on the GTX 780. This is under Windows 7.

When we tried this on Windows 8.1 the pausing, or hitching, or chop (however you want to describe it) was completely gone. Moving was smoother with no hitching in the game on the GTX 780. This affected both the test range and the multiplayer gaming session.

Therefore, the gameplay experience advantage under Windows 8.1 is a smoother gameplay experience in BF4 on both video cards."


That's why I'd like to know more about frametimes and not just fps. Hitching/stutter is often associated with frametimes.

P.S. Some people say HT on is actually better: http://www.overclock.net/t/1433904/...1-ht-enabled-vs-disabled-on-battlefield-4/240

Yeah I agree, the more data the better. At least they have attempted to quantify it, although they have even mentioned the difficulty in doing it accurately. It could be useful to have more info about the tests (frametimes, etc. as you mentioned). The [h] article was an interesting subjective analysis which mentions the benefits of 8.1, while the Tech Buyers Guru demonstrates it.

The article was covering a wide variety of games though, BF4 MP was just the single most interesting game since Windows 8.1 has the largest effect. I think they nailed it (the point of the article) to since they demonstrated that the majority of (older) games tested didn't have a major positive effect, to the contrary some basically took a small hit in windows 8.1, while BF4 clearly has benefits.

If it's one game it's too hard to say if it's just that game working well with 8.1 or if it's the start of a trend.

It will be interesting to see upcoming games. If they are optimized for 8.1 (or dx 11.1/2) the improvements in 8.1 should be clear.

 

[Carfax83]

Johan of DICE have said its due to the their own designs with handling the CPU and although they did not explicitly say it, windows 8.1 just does it better for them, so it is game specific. Is it a sign of things to come? Probably for Frostbite games.. for other game engines? So far no indications.

I'm still on win7, CBF to reformat.

A Dice employee on Reddit said most of the improvements seen on Windows 8/8.1 come from the way the OS handles the CPU:

We are investigating this at DICE. Some of the graphic lag is related to how the OS handles the CPU cores. The main reason the game runs better in Win 8 is due to better handling of the cores.
We will get back to you when we have investigated this.

Source

And I would definitely agree with him. One of the things I noticed when upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 8 was that my FPS was both higher and steadier, so my games ran smoother. Presumably, this is from the major improvement of the CPU thread scheduler that Microsoft implemented in Windows 8..

 

[Carfax83]

Try benching it. How else can you know if it's helping or hindering? Their minimums aren't that low with HT, they are just noticeably lower.

I play with V-sync on @ 60Hz, so frame rate dips would be very noticeable to me, but I get very smooth gameplay. I haven't benched it, but it certainly feels like I'm at 60 FPS.

GameGPU also showed major gains for HT enabled CPUs in BF4..

 

[Spidre]

I think they may have fixed the problems with win7 and bf4. I run win7 and my game is perfectly smooth now. Granted my computer is overkill for 1080p, but I think it was a problem with bf4 rather than windows.

 

[wand3r3r]

I think they may have fixed the problems with win7 and bf4. I run win7 and my game is perfectly smooth now. Granted my computer is overkill for 1080p, but I think it was a problem with bf4 rather than windows.

Perhaps, assuming you mean the stuttering or jittery effect that [h] was reporting on. Regardless of the stuttering effect, windows 8.1 has a significant performance increase considering you can pay considerable money for a better cards to get a 24% FPS boost according to the TBG's findings.

 

[blastingcap]

So apparently DICE's guy said that the reason why 8.1 works better is because of DX11.1 and they specifically mentioned CPUs... 8.1 utilizes CPU cores better in BF4.

 

[Teizo]

So apparently DICE's guy said that the reason why 8.1 works better is because of DX11.1 and they specifically mentioned CPUs... 8.1 utilizes CPU cores better in BF4.

It definitely works better for me. My fps have not increased, but the game runs smoother when it decides not to crash on me.

Overall, after installing Start8 from Stardock and the Remove Ribbon patch...8.1 looks and functions like 7, but runs better.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Any test of "gaming" that uses 3DMark loses my interest ASAP...

 

[NTMBK]

It'd be interesting to see how Mantle changes this; will Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 be better for it?

 

[pmv]

Should this not (also?) be in the O/S forum?

Curious that 8.1 is _so much_ better in B4. I'd actually find a small improvement more persuasive. Such a large difference seems odd, as if its some particular problem with the game on win7.

 

[Ketchup]

It's good to see that the two OS's are at least pretty close to equal in the end. I don't really see the big surprise wand3r3r.

In the end, I think it will behave much like the OS's of the past, as it moves from an equal footing to surpassing old hardware and software as newer technologies continues to develop.

I mean, isn't this the way it's always been?

 

[wand3r3r]

Should this not (also?) be in the O/S forum?

Curious that 8.1 is _so much_ better in B4. I'd actually find a small improvement more persuasive. Such a large difference seems odd, as if its some particular problem with the game on win7.

Perhaps it could be? It falls into several categories so I'm not/wasn't sure.

It's good to see that the two OS's are at least pretty close to equal in the end. I don't really see the big surprise wand3r3r.

In the end, I think it will behave much like the OS's of the past, as it moves from an equal footing to surpassing old hardware and software as newer technologies continues to develop.

I mean, isn't this the way it's always been?

I've heard a lot of hype about 8/8.1 from people, although I only got BF4 recently myself. I was surprised about a few things, firstly that there was little to no difference in a number of games, (slight) negative effects in a couple, and then BF4 was an incredible difference which was shocking to me. I expected some difference, however it was huge for an OS/dx difference. I'd generally expect somewhat worse performance on the same hardware due to software bloat and more abstraction as software ages (from DOS -> GUI etc.) but this was apparently a fairly significant refinement in Windows (CPU mgmt or DX have been mentioned).

 

[Bateluer]

If someone could offer definitive, 100% proof that Skyrim would run stable under Windows 8.1, I might consider installing it on my main gaming machine. Even with all the work required to un-Metro the OS into something usable, playable Skyrim might be worth it.

 

[XiandreX]

If someone could offer definitive, 100% proof that Skyrim would run stable under Windows 8.1, I might consider installing it on my main gaming machine. Even with all the work required to un-Metro the OS into something usable, playable Skyrim might be worth it.

The "work" you mention to un-Metro it is very easy in fact. Classic shell or anything like that. The Skyrim part I get.

 

[DarkKnightDude]

I occasionally play Skyrim on my main gaming rig with Windows 8.1 with tons of mods, and all seems fine. Granted, I've maybe played 9 hours of it so far since installing this OS.

 

[chimaxi83]

If someone could offer definitive, 100% proof that Skyrim would run stable under Windows 8.1, I might consider installing it on my main gaming machine. Even with all the work required to un-Metro the OS into something usable, playable Skyrim might be worth it.

You're about 2 months late on the tired old "ermagerd so much work!" stuff. Windows 8.1 update did the un-Metro work for you.

 

[Lonbjerg]

You're about 2 months late on the tired old "ermagerd so much work!" stuff. Windows 8.1 update did the un-Metro work for you.

8.1 still needs "classic shell" or similar to be fully usefull and kill the last "Metro" crap.

 

[wand3r3r]

It will be fun to see upcoming titles in 2014 and whether they are as affected. I'm not sure that console "ports" will be as optimized for windows 8.1 though.

I've been on 8 since the beginning and don't really have any major complaints.