The Tea Party is about the ECONOMY!

[jonks]

Oh, right, and debunking evolution. Forgot that part.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/re...ampaign=Feed:+OTB+(Outside+The+Beltway+|+OTB)

I suppose the good news is that these laws will likely pass under the majorities in their respective states and then we can have SCOTUS (and the string of federal courts leading up to them) unanimously trashing these idiots. I mean, one can only read the opinion in Kitzmiller so many times. Gotta be tough to be a part of the secular right these days.

 

[Macamus Prime]

So, they have been screaming about how the government should have as little control as possible,... unless it involves their religion; then the government should enforce restricting the teachings of evolution.

 

[xj0hnx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo&feature=related

 

[Vette73]

I think this fills in the rest.

 

[jonks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQttJinjo&feature=related

It's telling and unfortunate that that vid's titled "atheist nightmare." It assumes theism is incompatible with understanding and accepting basic science, and it isn't. But shit like these proposed laws does give "intellectual" cover to the vast ignorance that is out there.

 

[wuliheron]

Would you really prefer it if they spent all their time and energy attacking specific targets?

 

[jonks]

Would you really prefer it if they spent all their time and energy attacking specific targets?

Well I'd prefer a reasonable opposition. If they had common sense non-draconian economic proposals, sure. I'd probably disagree but it's annoying when your political adversaries act like caricatures.

 

[Matt1970]

I think this fills in the rest.

Wow, that's almost as big as some of the gaps in the theory of evolution.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I think this fills in the rest.

Fills in what...the empty space between your ears?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...E2.80.931000_.284th.E2.80.9310th_centuries.29

 

[jackschmittusa]

Matt1970

"Wow, that's almost as big as some of the gaps in the theory of evolution."

Is your ignorance willful? Perhaps educating yourself on the subject would enhance your credibility in discussing it.

 

[Matt1970]

So 9 wacko "state" represenatives define the Tea Party? Along those same lines then we have to include the proposals from the Dems that called for salary caps and government regulation of all CEOs, not just bailed out companies.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Wow, that's almost as big as some of the gaps in the theory of evolution.

Please don't start. Please, I'm begging you. Take a class on Introduction to Biological Anthropology.

 

[BudAshes]

Logical Christians need to go and tell these people to stfu and stop ruining their reputation.

 

[Matt1970]

Matt1970

"Wow, that's almost as big as some of the gaps in the theory of evolution."

Is your ignorance willful? Perhaps educating yourself on the subject would enhance your credibility in discussing it.

Explain instinct. Where in the sperm and or egg is the set of instructions that tells a creature what to do when born? How does that get programmed? That’s all done by testicles and ovaries. Explain how a tree with no known intelligence or conscience can evolve to produce a chemical that repels bugs or can bear a fruit that animals will eat and disperse it's seeds. For that matter, explain how a creature knows to evolve in the first place. What part of out body controls the DNA changes we sent to our offspring and what part of out body tells our offspring to start growing arms instead of fins, or lungs instead of gills. If we all really evolved from a single celled organism, which is probably the case, then what told that organism to seek nourishment, or how to multiply.

Maybe before you call someone ignorant you should really take a look at the complexity of the world around you and wonder how it all came to be from a single celled organism. To sum up, in the vast scheme of things the way they are, science really doesn't know squat.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Explain instinct. Where in the sperm and or egg is the set of instructions that tells a creature what to do when born? How does that get programmed? That’s all done by testicles and ovaries. Explain how a tree with no known intelligence or conscience can evolve to produce a chemical that repels bugs or can bear a fruit that animals will eat and disperse it's seeds. For that matter, explain how a creature knows to evolve in the first place. What part of out body controls the DNA changes we sent to our offspring and what part of out body tells our offspring to start growing arms instead of fins, or lungs instead of gills. If we all really evolved from a single celled organism, which is probably the case, then what told that organism to seek nourishment, or how to multiply.

Maybe before you call someone ignorant you should really take a look at the complexity of the world around you and wonder how it all came to be from a single celled organism. To sum up, in the vast scheme of things the way they are, science really doesn't know squat.

The fact that you are asking these questions shows that you really don't know squat. I'm not going to explain introductory evolution to you - it will take awhile. That's because it's a theory supported by mountainous bodies of evidence that I don't have on-hand. A tree doesn't "know" to evolve. Nothing does. Evolutionary changes are caused by DNA mutations. These mutations happen all the time within my, your, and everyone else's DNA. Some do nothing, while occasionally a series of mutations will build up over time to make a fundamental change in an organism.

The world around us seems so impossibly complex and incredible because the organisms that surround us are those that had helpful mutations in exactly the right order. There were others that didn't survive (ie, a fish that evolved lungs instead of gills, or an acid-spitting bug that didn't develop a protective lining for the acid).

You can see these changes around you every day, although usually the ones you notice are the bad mutations that hurt an organism. Some examples are genetic disorders like albinism and cystic fibrosis.

Edit: As for instinct, as I said, I am not an expert on the subject. But just think about why you are attracted to the opposite sex (or the same sex, whatever your taste), why fatty foods taste good to you, and why you are able to learn to walk with your bipedal skeleton. Your body has amassed an incredibly large system of instructions for processing how to procreate, what to eat, and how to keep your balance. Sperm have a more limited set of instructions that just tell them to swim towards the egg. Most of them don't even make it - a woman only has a 20% chance of becoming pregnant during a cycle. That's an awful lot of failure, and just goes to show that these processes aren't perfect.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Please don't start. Please, I'm begging you. Take a class on Introduction to Biological Anthropology.

There are many who feel that evolution somehow threatens, or for that matter, precludes the existence of God. Evolution is highly misunderstood by many of those who have a "vested interest" regardless of which end of the ideological spectrum they happen to fall.

 

[Steeplerot]

To sum up, in the vast scheme of things the way they are, science really doesn't know squat.

I usually show this to younger folks learning about this stuff. Here are some of greatest scientists on the planet explaining for people .

Symphony of Science - 'The Unbroken Thread'

Symphony of Science - 'We Are All Connected'

"We are a way of the cosmos to know itself -as we are literally made of starstuff!" -Sagan

 

[Matt1970]

The fact that you are asking these questions shows that you really don't know squat. I'm not going to explain introductory evolution to you - it will take awhile. That's because it's a theory supported by mountainous bodies of evidence that I don't have on-hand. A tree doesn't "know" to evolve. Nothing does. Evolutionary changes are caused by DNA mutations. These mutations happen all the time within my, your, and everyone else's DNA. Some do nothing, while occasionally a series of mutations will build up over time to make a fundamental change in an organism.

The world around us seems so impossibly complex and incredible because the organisms that surround us are those that had helpful mutations in exactly the right order. There were others that didn't survive (ie, a fish that evolved lungs instead of gills, or an acid-spitting bug that didn't develop a protective lining for the acid).

You can see these changes around you every day, although usually the ones you notice are the bad mutations that hurt an organism. Some examples are genetic disorders like albinism and cystic fibrosis.

Edit: As for instinct, as I said, I am not an expert on the subject. But just think about why you are attracted to the opposite sex (or the same sex, whatever your taste), why fatty foods taste good to you, and why you are able to learn to walk with your bipedal skeleton. Your body has amassed an incredibly large system of instructions for processing how to procreate, what to eat, and how to keep your balance. Sperm have a more limited set of instructions that just tell them to swim towards the egg. Most of them don't even make it - a woman only has a 20% chance of becoming pregnant during a cycle. That's an awful lot of failure, and just goes to show that these processes aren't perfect.

Well you seem to have really answered nothing. I already know about the mutations in DNA, but it doesn't "JUST" happen. Something has to tell that tree it needs a defensive system. Something has to tell the DNA string to change. And instinct has absolutely nothing to do with a persons tatse prefrences or individuality.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

There are many who feel that evolution somehow threatens, or for that matter, precludes the existence of God. Evolution is highly misunderstood by many of those who have a "vested interest" regardless of which end of the ideological spectrum they happen to fall.

Yes, it is a controversial subject and many view it as threatening to (or use it to threaten) their or others' ideologies. I view this as a huge misunderstanding. I have many intelligent, religious friends (my girlfriend, for one) who accept both evolution and religion as being able to coexist.

However, "Intelligent Design" has no basis in scientific theory. It is an unproven, unresearched alternative to evolution which is used as a defense for ignorance.

Well you seem to have really answered nothing. I already know about the mutations in DNA, but it doesn't "JUST" happen. Something has to tell that tree it needs a defensive system. Something has to tell the DNA string to change. And instinct has absolutely nothing to do with a persons tatse prefrences or individuality.

As far as you and I are concerned, mutations do "just happen." There are some complicated processes behind the changes, but they are essentially errors that occur in carrying out DNA replication and information transfers inside the body. Nothing tells the tree that it needs a defensive system. The tree develops a mutation that gives it that defense, and it is then able to survive better and spread more than the other trees of its kind that did not develop the defense. For every successful mutation like that, there are billions of failed ones that resulted in an organism being less successful. And instinct has everything to do with a person's individuality. Sure, many of our little quirks are a result of our personal experiences, but some are a result of genetic predispositions (and this goes far, far beyond simply taste). In many cases, homosexuality is a genetic mutation - that's why a person can't help it. Likewise, some people are infertile due to genetic reasons.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Matt1970

"For that matter, explain how a creature knows to evolve in the first place."

Just asking this shows your ignorance. There is no requirement for any species to "know" it should evolve, and evolution science makes no such reference to anything like it.

Instinct is in fact, programed into DNA. Many animals supplement this information storehouse with a brain that allows for additional storage and allows for processing a wider range of variables in their environment.

Trees that have the traits you mention are more likely to survive and reproduce than those that don't. They never needed any intelligence to make a decision, they simply had DNA that allowed them to prosper in their environment while other species did not.

There is no "willful" control by an organism of its DNA, and evolution makes no claim that such a thing is required. Both random mutation and environmental factors can cause significant changes in DNA, by mutation and switching gene sequences on or off. All very well documented facts.

DNA instructed your body to grow arms instead of fins. I would think you should know that.

"science really doesn't know squat"

That's actually pretty funny. You equate your minuscule knowledge of science to the vast body of knowledge that science actually represents. The classic example of a closed mind.

 

[Steeplerot]

Well you seem to have really answered nothing. I already know about the mutations in DNA, but it doesn't "JUST" happen. Something has to tell that tree it needs a defensive system. Something has to tell the DNA string to change. And instinct has absolutely nothing to do with a persons tatse prefrences or individuality.

DNA mutations are quite common. When you get very sick your body learns to fight the infection and you can pass that on to your children. For example 8 in 10 babies inside their mothers who are HIV positive adapt to the virus and the babies mutate their genes before they are born. These folks cannot get HIV for life. Most mutations are either because of virus or infections or natural selection.

Time + Death of generation after generation are what creates mutations. Take a look at clothing from the victorian era in a antique store. You can see the genetic mutation thanks to our improving environment (science) as the average human was smaller in stature back then. Good luck fitting into a antique jacket when our generations DNA creates humans that are so much bigger then folks in the 1800s.

If you happen to be Caucasian with descendants from England you are ONLY here because your ancestors were the lucky enough ones who had mutated genes left over from some older disease to survive the black plague. Who is alive right now is a great example of genetic survival of the fittest.

 

[sandorski]

Amazingly, Science made me a Computer and even more amazing is that they made you guys one too. Apparently Science Knows something.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Yes, it is a controversial subject and many view it as threatening to (or use it to threaten) their or others' ideologies. I view this as a huge misunderstanding. I have many intelligent, religious friends (my girlfriend, for one) who accept both evolution and religion as being able to coexist.

However, "Intelligent Design" has no basis in scientific theory. It is an unproven, unresearched alternative to evolution which is used as a defense for ignorance.

The door of misunderstanding swings both ways.

 

[Matt1970]

There are many who feel that evolution somehow threatens, or for that matter, precludes the existence of God. Evolution is highly misunderstood by many of those who have a "vested interest" regardless of which end of the ideological spectrum they happen to fall.

And there are those that think that because we have evolved it is proof god doesn't exist but both of those seem to be the minority since (the exact numbers seen to vary) since the vast majority of people believe in God and more than 1/2 the people believe in Evolution is some form.

 

[Steeplerot]

And there are those that think that because we have evolved it is proof god doesn't exist but both of those seem to be the minority since (the exact numbers seen to vary) since the vast majority of people believe in God and more than 1/2 the people believe in Evolution is some form.

Religion and gods are a evolutionary byproduct of our survival, we created them and passed them down through generations to deal with the lack of science explaining how the world works. (also for political reasons) We are growing up as a species now. Religion is dying worldwide and most that say they are religious are more into some benign god or idea of spirituality. Even that is faltering.

Religion is nothing but an old human idea of feudalism, both are outdated social structures. Hence the old phrase from the age of enlightenment "may the last king be strangled with the guts of the last priest". Not a pretty thing to imagine but very telling as to where ideas of freedom and democracy come from we have now. People do not believe that Obama is our living incarnation of a god since he is president. This is perfectly logical as during the French revolution they PROVED their leader was not a god by slicing their heads off. Now people use critical analysis on a personal level to drive out the "demons and ghosts" of religion that was usually passed on through folklore from their parents. No need to hack anyones head off anymore, just use yours to think.