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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
I think in any pissing contest between TastesLikeChicken and datalink7, I will side with datalink7. He is the guy in the trenches that sees first hand the human equation. This is a war of emotions and not facts, and emotions are just as valid of facts.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: datalink7

I could go on and on, but in short summery:

A multitude of bad guys killed or arrested = winning
Peace accord between embattled communities = winning
Infrastructure buildup = winning
Ability for locals to actually recieve health care = winning

At least in my mind.
No one is disputing your effort and bravery. At $12 billion a month we can stop a bunch of bad guys in the US, build up our own crumbling infrastruture and provide health care for millions of Americans.

This is not a nation-building exercise. It's past time to declare victory and redeploy.

 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Lemon law
I think in any pissing contest between TastesLikeChicken and datalink7, I will side with datalink7. He is the guy in the trenches that sees first hand the human equation. This is a war of emotions and not facts, and emotions are just as valid of facts.
In case you hadn't noticed, we're not having a pissing contest.

And in a pissing contest between you or any of the other of the "Iraq sucks because I said so and, OMG, here's the link that proves how much it sucks" crowd in here, and datalink7, I'll side with datalink7.

So thanks for yet another one of your delusions but it really comes off as a rather silly observation and pretty much pointless. But seeing how being pointless, and a leftist/socialist reactionary, is a badge you seem to wear proudly in P&N, I understand though.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: datalink7

I could go on and on, but in short summery:

A multitude of bad guys killed or arrested = winning
Peace accord between embattled communities = winning
Infrastructure buildup = winning
Ability for locals to actually recieve health care = winning

At least in my mind.
No one is disputing your effort and bravery. At $12 billion a month we can stop a bunch of bad guys in the US, build up our own crumbling infrastruture and provide health care for millions of Americans.

This is not a nation-building exercise. It's past time to declare victory and redeploy.
So the next time we go to another country/local tribe/whatever and ask themselves to put their resources/security/well being/people on the line to help us, and they say, Will you stand by us and/or help us? And we say, Oh, of course! And then they say, Like when you abandoned the South Vietnamese? Like when you abandoned the Afghani's? Like when you abandoned the Iraqi's?

There's more to picking up our toys and going home than saving money and our peoples lives now.....

Chuck
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,784
43
91
www.bing.com
While every troops life that is lost is tragic, the count of dead troops is by no means any valuable metric of how successful the occupation of Iraq is.

Some of the greatest battles in US history lost more men in single day than the entire invasion + occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan combined have lost in 7 years. Hell the marines lost 6,000 men taking the itty bitty island of Iwo Jima, and there were no civiilans around to get in the way. Compare that to a vast country like Iraq, with 25 million people running around and pourous borders, losing less than 4k is nothing short of miraculous.

But since it is a metric that is easy for people to understand, and the media doesnt have to do the work of actually analyzing the situations, it has become the defacto measuring stick in everyone's heads.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Seems that it's time to abandon the major population centers, fortify the oil fields and other valuable resources, and let them go at one another.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
141
116
Originally posted by: chucky2
So the next time we invade another country/local tribe/whatever and force them to put their resources/security/well being/people on the line to help our financial and strategic interests
Fixed.

And then they say, Like when you abandoned the South Vietnamese? Like when you abandoned the Afghani's? Like when you abandoned the Iraqi's?
The lesson learned here isn't that we need to stay in Iraq. It's that we need to stop getting involved in stupid conflicts.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
141
116
Originally posted by: Nebor
Seems that it's time to abandon the major population centers, fortify the oil fields and other valuable resources, and let them go at one another.
You can fortify the oil fields as much as you want; it'll all get taken down with one explosive charge placed at any point on the thousands of miles of pipeline.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: chucky2
So the next time we invade another country/local tribe/whatever and force them to put their resources/security/well being/people on the line to help our financial and strategic interests
Fixed.

And then they say, Like when you abandoned the South Vietnamese? Like when you abandoned the Afghani's? Like when you abandoned the Iraqi's?
The lesson learned here isn't that we need to stay in Iraq. It's that we need to stop getting involved in stupid conflicts.
Wow...I wasn't aware Afghanistan and Pakistan had financial interests for us...or Somalia...or Colombia...etc.

I agree, we shouldn't get involved in stupid conflicts. That's why I'm glad the vastly superior UN and not us stopped the buthering going on in Sudan years ago so 100k's didn't needless die/get butchered. Oh wait.....

Chuck
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Nebor
Seems that it's time to abandon the major population centers, fortify the oil fields and other valuable resources, and let them go at one another.
You can fortify the oil fields as much as you want; it'll all get taken down with one explosive charge placed at any point on the thousands of miles of pipeline.
Patrol it, physically and electronically. If we can secure our borders, we can secure an oil pipeline.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,144
24,724
136
Originally posted by: datalink7


I could go on and on, but in short summery:

A multitude of bad guys killed or arrested = winning
Peace accord between embattled communities = winning
Infrastructure buildup = winning
Ability for locals to actually recieve health care = winning

At least in my mind.
What peace accord are you referring to?

EDIT: Oh wait I see you mean on a local scale. Nationally things seem to be falling apart in terms of Shia-Sunni relations unfortunately.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
141
116
Originally posted by: Nebor
Patrol it, physically and electronically. If we can secure our borders, we can secure an oil pipeline.
:laugh:

So what you're saying is we'll never secure the oil pipelines in our lifetime?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Nebor
Patrol it, physically and electronically. If we can secure our borders, we can secure an oil pipeline.
:laugh:

So what you're saying is we'll never secure the oil pipelines in our lifetime?
Well what we need is oil amnesty.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Nebor
Patrol it, physically and electronically. If we can secure our borders, we can secure an oil pipeline.
:laugh:

So what you're saying is we'll never secure the oil pipelines in our lifetime?
Well, hopefully in that time we'll find an alternative source that makes securing oil a non-issue... ;)
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Nebor
Patrol it, physically and electronically. If we can secure our borders, we can secure an oil pipeline.
:laugh:

So what you're saying is we'll never secure the oil pipelines in our lifetime?
Well, hopefully in that time we'll find an alternative source that makes securing oil a non-issue... ;)
I see where you're going, and I like it: Burning Mexicans for fuel.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
As jpeyton points out---So what you're saying is we'll never secure the oil pipelines in our lifetime?

Not when you are talking about the inept leadership of GWB&co? Those dumb MF's could not secure a wall mart parking lot. They are totally incapable of understanding people.
And think that because they can get away with fooling the American people, that is enough.

Thank God for people like datalink7 and his command. At least they have a clue that its all about the Iraqi people. Who is more irrational, GWB&co. or the Iraqi thugs he has empowered? No matter what the answer is, the Iraqi people lose, we lose, and what do we expect? Tell it to the Iraqi people, we had to kill you to save you so we can steal your oil.
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
As jpeyton points out---So what you're saying is we'll never secure the oil pipelines in our lifetime?

Not when you are talking about the inept leadership of GWB&co? Those dumb MF's could not secure a wall mart parking lot. They are totally incapable of understanding people.
And think that because they can get away with fooling the American people, that is enough.

Thank God for people like datalink7 and his command. At least they have a clue that its all about the Iraqi people. Who is more irrational, GWB&co. or the Iraqi thugs he has empowered? No matter what the answer is, the Iraqi people lose, we lose, and what do we expect? Tell it to the Iraqi people, we had to kill you to save you so we can steal your oil.
I agree. If we continue on this same path America will go the way of the British empire. Empires are meant to fall and/or crumble but nations remain strong and last for as long as they don't grow beyond their own means. This whole war was complete bullshit and staying in Iraq and baby sitting it indefinitely is also a bullshit view point that will cost us greatly in the end. Our country was not created or setup to act as nation builders.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Nebor
Patrol it, physically and electronically. If we can secure our borders, we can secure an oil pipeline.
:laugh:

So what you're saying is we'll never secure the oil pipelines in our lifetime?
Well, hopefully in that time we'll find an alternative source that makes securing oil a non-issue... ;)
I see where you're going, and I like it: Burning Mexicans for fuel.
wellll, not exactly...

;)
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Lemon law
As jpeyton points out---So what you're saying is we'll never secure the oil pipelines in our lifetime?

Not when you are talking about the inept leadership of GWB&co? Those dumb MF's could not secure a wall mart parking lot. They are totally incapable of understanding people.
And think that because they can get away with fooling the American people, that is enough.

Thank God for people like datalink7 and his command. At least they have a clue that its all about the Iraqi people. Who is more irrational, GWB&co. or the Iraqi thugs he has empowered? No matter what the answer is, the Iraqi people lose, we lose, and what do we expect? Tell it to the Iraqi people, we had to kill you to save you so we can steal your oil.
I really wish you'd stop pretending to kiss datalink's ass after spending most of the last year insulting every other service-member in this forum on a daily basis.

You completely missed his point about all the good we ARE doing in Iraq, and all of the progress we ARE making over there every day; and then you went on to blow smoke up his ass by praising his efforts and proclaiming his word greater than everyone else' -- all the while snickering to yourself about what you honestly consider pointless and worthless efforts.

Do you really think he's dumb enough to fall for that bullsh*t? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth - again - and it's fvcking nauseating...

bah... maybe I'm speaking out of turn... or maybe datalink doesnt care...

but I do.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
This was unexpected? Only ProfJohn was dumb enough to believe otherwise.
Now that Sadr has called off his cease-fire, well see who was wrong in here and who wasn't. Though I suspect that if it doesn't go Sadr's way a few in here will argue that "Technically, Sadr didn't call off the cease-fire."

We'll see what happens though. imo, Sadr doesn't have nearly the cache in Iraq that some in here allot him.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,645
1,151
126
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
This was unexpected? Only ProfJohn was dumb enough to believe otherwise.
Now that Sadr has called off his cease-fire, well see who was wrong in here and who wasn't. Though I suspect that if it doesn't go Sadr's way a few in here will argue that "Technically, Sadr didn't call off the cease-fire."

We'll see what happens though. imo, Sadr doesn't have nearly the cache in Iraq that some in here allot him.
We can only hope and pray that Sadr is now marginalized in the Iraqi situation, and that a resumed widespread sectarian terror campaign isn't in the cards.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
As Palehorse74 now bitterly complains about the following---I really wish you'd stop pretending to kiss datalink's ass after spending most of the last year insulting every other service-member in this forum on a daily basis.

You completely missed his point about all the good we ARE doing in Iraq, and all of the progress we ARE making over there every day; and then you went on to blow smoke up his ass by praising his efforts and proclaiming his word greater than everyone else' -- all the while snickering to yourself about what you honestly consider pointless and worthless efforts.

Do you really think he's dumb enough to fall for that bullsh*t? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth - again - and it's fvcking nauseating...

bah... maybe I'm speaking out of turn... or maybe datalink doesnt care...

but I do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does it ever occur to you palehorse74, that there is a world of difference between your posts and those of datalinks7's. Datalink7's posts shows he is thinking about what the Iraqi people
are thinking about and what motivates THEM. Something totally missing in your posts where its all about you and your military service showing the savages how to live. And how they should be properly grateful.

And in terms of the wonderful progress that is happening everyday, with luck, it will take eighty or more years to get them back to where they were before we came. You flat out don't seem to care and seem to show no ability to put your selves in anyone else's shoes. And your knee jerk idea always seems to be to kill ideas and anyone who does not agree with you.

Get a clue, datalink7 and his command deserves the praise and you do not. They have the right stuff and the right way to conduct an occupation. And you clearly don't. And thats also seeming accounts for why, given our vast resources, we are making so little progress.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
This was unexpected? Only ProfJohn was dumb enough to believe otherwise.
Now that Sadr has called off his cease-fire, well see who was wrong in here and who wasn't. Though I suspect that if it doesn't go Sadr's way a few in here will argue that "Technically, Sadr didn't call off the cease-fire."

We'll see what happens though. imo, Sadr doesn't have nearly the cache in Iraq that some in here allot him.
More Chicken Scat.

1) Sadr has not called off his ceasefire. He extended the ceasefire for another 6 months in Febuary.

2) One year after the invasion of Iraq the DoD estimated the Mahdi Army troop strength at 3k lightly armed soldiers. Six months later the estimate tripled.

3) Projections now estimate Mahdi Army militias 'conseratively' above 50k. It is feared that significant numbers of Muqtada al-Sadr's supporters are now members of Iraq's facility protection forces.

4) The DoD has declared that the Mahdi Army "has replaced Al Qaeda in Iraq as the most dangerous accelerant of potentially self-sustaining sectarian violence in Iraq."

5) For those keeping score:

Mahdi Army - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 50k
"Concerned Local" Sunnis - - - - - 85k
Kurdish Armies- - - - - - - - - - - -100k
Iraq Army - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 120k
US - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 150k

6) There are an estimated 34,500 US troops in Gaghbad. There is a current drawdown of 2k - a combat brigade from the 82nd returning home after their 15-month tour.

7) Drawdowns are expected to reduce the overall US force in Iraq by 20k by the end of the summer - troops ending their 15-month tours.

 

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