The stigma the south has earned

[Craig234]

The south has earned a stigma. Most infamous for a century of enduring racism following its defeat in the civil war, that's not the only reason.

A certain brand of fundamentalism and ignorance, extensive poverty, the home of the 'redneck' culture, being the bane of the democrats before becoming the home to much of the right-wing culture in the republican party (the party used to be largely centered in the urban northeast) all contribute.

These are stereotypes and generalizations, of course, with many exceptions; you will find very few southerners today, for example, who express explicit racist views. The south has all kinds of good qualities in places and its own unique culture in a positve sense as well. It has some liberals, some high tech, and so on, too. But the stigma persists, however much the south is catered to as the swing vote in national elections.

The following story, IMO, is a exemplary anecdote about why. Yes, the guy was removed from office, when he refused to back down - but are there any other regions in the US he ever could have obtained such high office, have kept his position with all his problems if he'd compromised a little, and have a large ongoing following now? It's an outrage that he could hold the office he did.

Link to the story that triggered this thread

The best the south could say to the criticsm seemed to be Lynyrd Skynyrd's meaningless retort to Neil Young that 'A souther man don't need him around anyhow'.

And then went on to say that Watergate didn't bother them.

Yay for the south, in those aspects. Comments such as in another thread tonight that the South should not have any representation in the federal government are incorrect, in my view (and I assume facetious), but understandable given the disasters they've given the country. It seems we're unable to elect a democratic president who is not from the south since 1960. That's a lot of good candidates who are unelectable.

 

[Steeplerot]

It is about time for some west coast left-wing presidents, seeing as how we are the capital economically and culturally of this country.

It is a shame the west coast is so underrepresented in the country, we could cancel out a good part of the fundies and right-wing hardliners from the souths votes if there was actual equality.

Maybe time to kick the "affirmative action" of less populated states to the curb and actually start representing the spirit of America, not it's fringe fruitcakes in the backwoods lacking exposure to the rich culture of this country. For them TV is all they have, very sad.

I am sure I will get flamed and told that CA and NYC will win the country every time, but this is reality they hate to confront.

 

[bamacre]

Hey, we tried to escape. It was the north that wanted us to stick around.

 

[Jaskalas]

What does any of this have to do with your linked article from Roy Moore?

The Islamic faith rejects our God and believes that the state must mandate the worship of its own god, Allah. Last week, the Associated Press reported that the Islamic Court in Bulo Burto, a small town in southern Somalia, had ordered that residents would be beheaded "according to Islamic law" if they failed to pray five times a day. Sheik Hussein Barre Rage, chairman of the Islamic court, stated, "As Muslims, we should practice Islam fully ... and that is what our religion enjoins us to do." In other regions of Somalia, Islamic courts have introduced flogging, public execution and other punishments for those who deny Quranic law or refuse to worship Allah.

Islamic law is simply incompatible with our law. Jaafar Sheikh Idris, founder and chairman of American Open University, a radical Islamic school that has received funding from suspected al-Qaida sources and which supports Islamic law, recently stated that "Islam cannot be separated from the state," and that no Muslim elected to Congress or the White House can swear to uphold the United States Constitution and still be a Muslim, because the law of Allah as expressed in the Quran is supreme. Idris was recently deported for his illegal activities. While we certainly disagree with Idris' radical extremism, he at least knows what Islam is all about!

Perhaps you think it?s backwards and ?funny? for someone to recognize that in this world war, electing the followers of the ideology we?re at war against is dead stupid. I for one think he has the right idea - Hakim Mohammad has already publicly demonstrated himself as self evidence to the part of the article quoted above.

Yet you moved from that article, to bemoaning over the south?s representation.

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Maybe time to kick the "affirmative action" of less populated states to the curb and actually start representing the spirit of America, not it's fringe fruitcakes in the backwoods lacking exposure to the rich culture of this country. For them TV is all they have, very sad.

I am sure I will get flamed and told that CA and NYC will win the country every time, but this is reality they hate to confront.

To understand the representation through the states and not the population, you must recognize the Union for what it was when first created. A Union of states, NOT a state itself. Other states were never supposed to supplant the authority and rule of other states among their own populations. Congress had 13 specific and enumerated powers with which to regulate specific aspects to protect basic human freedoms, the army, and other interstate relations.

Now congress and big government proponents intend to continue to trash the constitution by ensuring a strong central government, by creating a large nanny state that thereby should be representative of its people and not its states, which by today may as well no longer exist seeing that they?re just a show with no real authority over Washington DC.

Your idea Steeplerot is to oppress the minority in their own homes with your favored rule of law. Such ideals, while popular, are an abuse of national power and a desecration of our constitution. If you want the ?South? to have less authority over you and to stop ruining your grand ideals, then you should make sure the central government cannot dictate to you, as that never should have been its job in the first place!

So long as we?re intent on extending our will unto others who do not desire it, this country will be greatly riddled with strife and I for one am very unhappy with the direction of either side growing government and refusing to let the states return to dealing as their own entities.

I say, you shall have your land and I shall have mine. Betray this ideal and you will never be rid of us and our want to live our way instead of yours.

 

[Craig234]

Perhaps you think it?s backwards and ?funny? for someone to recognize that in this world war, electing the followers of the ideology we?re at war against is dead stupid. I for one think he has the right idea - Hakim Mohammad has already publicly demonstrated himself as self evidence to the part of the article quoted above.

I think it's backwards and not funny for someone to think that trashing the constitution's wise banning of any religious qualification for office is a good idea, that someone confuses Islam with 'the ideology we're at war against', and that misrepresenting history as badly as Moore does is anything but a disgrace.

You should check the history some time of what the government under Washington did in signing a treaty with the Muslims in Tripoli, IIRC, who were concerned about the US being a 'Christian religion' nation. The Senate unanimously passed a treaty - the law of the land - saying the US was in no way a Christian nation.

Or maybe Washington and the founding fathers are your enemy, too. Indeed they are.

 

[Jhhnn]

Christian Reconstructionists are every bit as whacky as radical Muslims, and are generally the ones calling for this so called "Culture War", along with a return to biblical "values" and punishments... but they're not trying to run anybody's lives but their own, right?

They're more of a threat than Muslim fundies, due to their numbers and unwitting accomplices in this country, and their brand of oppression is the same, merely couched in different terms...

 

[Genx87]

hey're more of a threat than Muslim fundies, due to their numbers and unwitting accomplices in this country, and their brand of oppression is the same, merely couched in different terms...

For now, give it 100 years and see what your ancestors have to say about those horrible christian fundies when Islamic fundies are running the show.

 

[bobdelt]

Christian Reconstructionists are every bit as whacky as radical Muslims

Oh yeah? whens the last time a christian suicide bombed a public place? Do christian cartoons teach kids to suicide bomb people too? And do christian shows teach people that other races will eat them, and make coke a cola out of their blood?

Although they might be extreme, but it's just pure BS to say they are just as wacky as radical muslims.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Hey, we tried to escape. It was the north that wanted us to stick around.

Yeh, last time the south tried to leave, there was an army of blue soldiers trying to force it to stay.

Kick the south out of the union!

 

[daveshel]

Moore should have just been a preacher. It must have taken balls, though, to attempt to rewrite centuries of jurisprudence at a time when his own ilk were throwing around the phrase 'judicial activism' as a means of throwing mud on anybody who was not right-wing.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: bobdelt

Christian Reconstructionists are every bit as whacky as radical Muslims

Oh yeah? whens the last time a christian suicide bombed a public place? Do christian cartoons teach kids to suicide bomb people too? And do christian shows teach people that other races will eat them, and make coke a cola out of their blood?

Although they might be extreme, but it's just pure BS to say they are just as wacky as radical muslims.

Well, there was Eric Rudolph...

Part of the reason there aren't Christian terrorists is location. They're not currently in a struggle for land they thing is their God given right.

The last time they were, Waco happened.

And yes, fundamentalist Christians teach violence too. The bible camp film showed that.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Christian Reconstructionists are every bit as whacky as radical Muslims, and are generally the ones calling for this so called "Culture War", along with a return to biblical "values" and punishments... but they're not trying to run anybody's lives but their own, right?

They're more of a threat than Muslim fundies, due to their numbers and unwitting accomplices in this country, and their brand of oppression is the same, merely couched in different terms...

I'll tell you what... you spend a week in Tennessee and then go spend a week in a village in Afghanistan that is run by the taliban. Then report back to me.

 

[jimkyser]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: bobdelt

Christian Reconstructionists are every bit as whacky as radical Muslims

Oh yeah? whens the last time a christian suicide bombed a public place? Do christian cartoons teach kids to suicide bomb people too? And do christian shows teach people that other races will eat them, and make coke a cola out of their blood?

Although they might be extreme, but it's just pure BS to say they are just as wacky as radical muslims.

Well, there was Eric Rudolph...

Part of the reason there aren't Christian terrorists is location. They're not currently in a struggle for land they thing is their God given right.

The last time they were, Waco happened.

And yes, fundamentalist Christians teach violence too. The bible camp film showed that.

Except that while Rudolph was more than willing to kill innocent people by bombing public places, he didn't have the sense to kill himself in the process.

 

[Jhhnn]

The reconstructionists simply haven't ascended to complete power, which isn't for lack of trying... They'll try to run your life every bit as completely as muslim fundies.

Where do you think miscegenation laws and the whole segregation thing came from, or why the South went Repub in the wake of civil rights legislation? Heck, some states carried laws restricting the kind of sex you could have with your wife, and then there's the whole Terri Schiavo routine, God hates fags, and abortion clinic bombings and shootings... they rerun the Scopes monkey trial every so often, just for the fun of it, right? Represent ontology as science in the form of Creationism...

None of which has a lot to do with the topic at hand... Except that they're just as nuts as their muslim counterparts, having their message better tailored to the American market, shaped by 30 years of rightwing thinktank propaganda...

Of course the Saudis will support the Sunnis if the US pulls out- given that the Iranians will support the Shia majority, it's a no-brainer...

Funny how the Bushwhackos just had to destroy one of the few secular govts in the region... while Baathist power resided mostly in the Sunni community, it wasn't because they were Sunni, but because they were Baathists... there were more than a few Shia Baathists, too, prior to the invasion, and the creation of a political power vacuum.

We've seen this before, in Iran, and Afghanistan. When existing civil political power structures are destroyed, then the only thing left is the religious power structure, which will seek to take over, in any country... Which is what happened in the former Yugoslavia, where fundie Orthodox Christian elements took over, instituted ethnic cleansing of muslims and catholics and all the associated bloodshed...

The Saudi regime is utterly corrupt, anyway, having the fundie Wahabbist clergy keep the population dummied down while the princes party in Monaco and the Caribbean. They rule by Divine Right- ask 'em, they'll tell you- a concept abandoned in the West about the time of the French and American Revolutions... So-called Christians of the time mostly supporting the Monarchies, and the modern equivalent being inherited wealth rather than royal blood... If you think they run the KSA much differently than the Taliban run Afghanistan, you're sadly mistaken- they're the model for Islamic rule everywhere....

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Is Virigina still part of the South? After all they put Robery Byrd into the Congress over and over again and he is a former KKK grand wizard.


just because you don't agree with someone does not make him ignorant nor the people who support him ignorant.


Also, the south hasn't changed much since when democrats controlled it lock, stock, and barrel. Its only that its PC to call into question anyone who has the audacity to vote for anyone except a democrat (heaven help you if you vote libetarian)

 

[ayabe]

CA and NY aren't exactly Utopian paradises, turning over all power to them isn't the answer to anything. Hardcore leftists are just as bad as right wing fundies, it's two sides of the same coin.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ayabe
CA and NY aren't exactly Utopian paradises, turning over all power to them isn't the answer to anything. Hardcore leftists are just as bad as right wing fundies, it's two sides of the same coin.

When was the last time a hardcore lefty blew anything up or tried to rewrite the constitution to fit a religion, or assassinated a right wing leader?

Worst thing you can point out is freeing some animals being abused in a lab. -Scaaary!

There are whole websites dedicated to keeping an eye on the homegrown right-wing terrorist groups who are violent like SPLC.

Left wing political statement

Right wing political statement




National Security Watch: 60 right-wing terror plots foiled

In the 10 years since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing killed 168 people, roughly 60 right-wing terrorist plots have been uncovered in the United States, according to an upcoming report by the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project. The plots, all foiled by law enforcement, reportedly included violent plans by antigovernment militia groups, racist skinhead organizations, and Ku Klux Klan members to use various types of chemical bombs and other weapons.

The plots demonstrate that the Department of Homeland Security still needs to closely monitor right-wing groups, says Heidi Beirich, with the Intelligence Project. The DHS was criticized by hate-group experts in April when an internal planning document on domestic terrorist threats was leaked to the press. The DHS report listed radical leftist groups, such as the Animal Liberation Front and the Earth Liberation Front, which have been involved in numerous arson cases, but not violent right-wing militia and skinhead groups.


And you all wonder why no one takes you all seriously when you whine about islamic extremism, heres a mirror: Have a look.

With as much as the right loves to point out how much anger the left has about bush on a whole we have done nothing but try to talk sense into you people, not one person has raised their finger against bush and he is probably the most hated president ever to my knowledge.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It is about time for some west coast left-wing presidents, seeing as how we are the capital economically and culturally of this country.

It is a shame the west coast is so underrepresented in the country, we could cancel out a good part of the fundies and right-wing hardliners from the souths votes if there was actual equality.

Maybe time to kick the "affirmative action" of less populated states to the curb and actually start representing the spirit of America, not it's fringe fruitcakes in the backwoods lacking exposure to the rich culture of this country. For them TV is all they have, very sad.

I am sure I will get flamed and told that CA and NYC will win the country every time, but this is reality they hate to confront.

Texas and Florida are in the South and they represent by population the #2 and #4 rankings.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It is about time for some west coast left-wing presidents, seeing as how we are the capital economically and culturally of this country.

It is a shame the west coast is so underrepresented in the country, we could cancel out a good part of the fundies and right-wing hardliners from the souths votes if there was actual equality.

Maybe time to kick the "affirmative action" of less populated states to the curb and actually start representing the spirit of America, not it's fringe fruitcakes in the backwoods lacking exposure to the rich culture of this country. For them TV is all they have, very sad.

I am sure I will get flamed and told that CA and NYC will win the country every time, but this is reality they hate to confront.

Texas and Florida are in the South and they represent by population the #2 and #4 rankings.

And how much subsidy do they they suck up from blue states?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ayabe
CA and NY aren't exactly Utopian paradises, turning over all power to them isn't the answer to anything. Hardcore leftists are just as bad as right wing fundies, it's two sides of the same coin.

When was the last time a hardcore lefty blew anything up or tried to rewrite the constitution to fit a religion, or assassinated a right wing leader?

Worst thing you can point out is freeing some animals being abused in a lab. -Scaaary!

There are whole websites dedicated to keeping an eye on the homegrown right-wing terrorist groups who are violent like SPLC.

Left wing political statement

Right wing political statement




National Security Watch: 60 right-wing terror plots foiled

In the 10 years since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing killed 168 people, roughly 60 right-wing terrorist plots have been uncovered in the United States, according to an upcoming report by the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project. The plots, all foiled by law enforcement, reportedly included violent plans by antigovernment militia groups, racist skinhead organizations, and Ku Klux Klan members to use various types of chemical bombs and other weapons.

The plots demonstrate that the Department of Homeland Security still needs to closely monitor right-wing groups, says Heidi Beirich, with the Intelligence Project. The DHS was criticized by hate-group experts in April when an internal planning document on domestic terrorist threats was leaked to the press. The DHS report listed radical leftist groups, such as the Animal Liberation Front and the Earth Liberation Front, which have been involved in numerous arson cases, but not violent right-wing militia and skinhead groups.


And you all wonder why no one takes you all seriously when you whine about islamic extremism, heres a mirror: Have a look.

You are taking the most extreme example of something right wing and comparing it to a poverty march, talk about being intellectually dishonest.

Again the answer is somewhere in between, you want the government completely involved in every facet of public life, the right fundies want the same thing, they are just coming from different perspectives.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It is about time for some west coast left-wing presidents, seeing as how we are the capital economically and culturally of this country.

It is a shame the west coast is so underrepresented in the country, we could cancel out a good part of the fundies and right-wing hardliners from the souths votes if there was actual equality.

Maybe time to kick the "affirmative action" of less populated states to the curb and actually start representing the spirit of America, not it's fringe fruitcakes in the backwoods lacking exposure to the rich culture of this country. For them TV is all they have, very sad.

I am sure I will get flamed and told that CA and NYC will win the country every time, but this is reality they hate to confront.

Texas and Florida are in the South and they represent by population the #2 and #4 rankings.

And how much subsidy do they they suck up from blue states?

Would you want to know why?

 

[Steeplerot]

Alleged anthrax hoaxer may be Free Republic poster

Well well, same website a lot of you all frequent and try to source is a hangout of terrorists, now who would have imagined that. :roll:



The man arrested on Saturday for sending more than a dozen envelopes containing "fake anthrax" to anti-war celebrities, journalists, and politicians may have ties to the conservative supersite Free Republic, RAW STORY has found.

Chad Castagana, a 39 year old Californian named as the FBI's prime suspect in the case, is due in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles today, where procecutors are expected to file criminal complaint against him for sending threatening letters through the U.S. mail. Castagana has an extensive online history, often writing about science fiction and conservative politics, and many bloggers are convinced that he is also a contributor at the conservative activist Free Republic website under the name Marc Costanzo, whose online profile, once available here was suspended after this story first ran this morning.

Earlier today, users at the liberal websites Democratic Underground and Daily Kos brought to light the similarities between Castagana's Internet footprint and Costanzo's writings at Free Republic, and RAW STORY has found a series of eyebrow-raising connections between the two men.

In one Free Republic post, Costanzo contends that he hails from the town of Woodlands Hills; the same city where Castagana was arrested.

"Sorry I was so late in replying, but this room were I am working online from is a scorcher in the afternoon," Constanzo wrote in July of this year. "Tempertures were 106 degrees in the shade this Saturday, here in Woodland Hills."

Liberal bloggers noticed the possible connection after doing a Google search on writings by Castagana.

In a letter posted to the website of the magazine Science Fiction Weekly at the time of their August 26, 2002 issue, Castagana wrote, "The future is not the current events of our world thrown into outer space. The future is not with the Liberals, not with the Multiculturalists (both hate America), and it is certainly not to be found in Canada! The future is not written, the future is unformed."

Nearly four years later, the following passage was written by Marc Costanzo of Free Republic:

Let us create a future of infinite possibilities devoid of the agenda of the social engineers who work their corruption on us thru the one way world of television. A world where anything is possible, but not everything is possible. Anything can happen, but not all things can happen at once. That is what 'Time' is for, to keep all things from happening at the same moment. That shall be the only rule of our new fantasy world. That an event happens only once. What has been done, cannot be undone. There is no turning back the sands of time. You can review the past but you cannot change the past. That a vision of a possible future - to the present, must be taken in the context of the present. A Cosmos not governed by compassion or tolerance or equality, but common sense and merit. A Universe of strange and totally new lifeforms and not distorted reflections of human characters, just to make some social allegory ---- THAT is the insipid barren road of Political Correctness that Sci-fi entertainment has been a slave to for so many years. The future is not the current events of our world thrown into Outer Space. The future is not with the Liberals, not with the Multiculturalists (both hate America), and it is certainly not to be found in some cheapo TV production made in Canada! The future is not written, the future is unformed.

The similarities implicate Costanzo in?at the least?plagiarism of the anthrax-hoax suspect, but there are other points of contact between the two men.

Most striking is this Costanzo comment from September, weeks before the anti-Bush MSNBC anchor Keith Olbermann was sent a threatening fake anthrax letter in New York: "This partisan loudmouth Olbermann is a demagogue! Someone should find out where he lives and mail him a Ted Kazcinski letter."

After Olbermann received the fake anthrax, Costanzo posted the following:"

Not to make light of the situation, but drama queen Olbermann put on quite a production even after he'd been told the powder was harmless and checked out by doctors and told he was fine. He demanded that he be rushed to the hospital for more tests. I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if he mailed it to himself. I've never seen someone more desperate for attention and approval. I heard from a liberal blog that Olbermann was a prima donna at the hospital, giving the medical staff and the cops a hard time. Keith is a whiny little b@tch! Accepting that, I do not believe he sent it to himself. But that is just guess work.

A few weeks later, after fake anthrax was sent to the New York offices of Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer, Costanzo wrote, "Hold it here now, what are the facts? The links provide few details. This info is very sketchy!"

And when the Washington Post recently received a piece of mail with suspicious white powder, Costanzo commented, "I heard recently that The Washington Post got interrupted beifly the other day becaue of a 'suspicious letter'. I read about this at Wonkette.com They said that this letter only contained harmless powder of Boric Acid."

Costanzo's profile at Free Republic, now removed from their site, once read in part, "I have an Associates Degree in the Science of Electronics." Castagana's web history indicates an extensive interest in technological gadgets and an understanding of electronics.


Link

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: brandonbull

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It is about time for some west coast left-wing presidents, seeing as how we are the capital economically and culturally of this country.

It is a shame the west coast is so underrepresented in the country, we could cancel out a good part of the fundies and right-wing hardliners from the souths votes if there was actual equality.

Maybe time to kick the "affirmative action" of less populated states to the curb and actually start representing the spirit of America, not it's fringe fruitcakes in the backwoods lacking exposure to the rich culture of this country. For them TV is all they have, very sad.

I am sure I will get flamed and told that CA and NYC will win the country every time, but this is reality they hate to confront.

Texas and Florida are in the South and they represent by population the #2 and #4 rankings.

And how much subsidy do they they suck up from blue states?

Would you want to know why?

Here's a link to save you the time:

Link

You aren't proving anything Steeple, btw. There are several redder than red states who also put more in than they get back.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Again the answer is somewhere in between, you want the government completely involved in every facet of public life, the right fundies want the same thing, they are just coming from different perspectives.

You can apologize all you want, but the bodycounts show.

Like I said, so who has the left assassinated, blown up or terrorized with anthrax lately?

You said the two extremes are equal, so show me where.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ayabe

Again the answer is somewhere in between, you want the government completely involved in every facet of public life, the right fundies want the same thing, they are just coming from different perspectives.

You can apologize all you want, but the bodycounts show.

Noone is apologizing, noone is a Freeper poster, get over yourself, you aren't qualified to judge anyone, your ideals aren't morally superior to anyone's. Seriously, get a grip on yourself.