The shuttle has become the costliest, most dangerous transport system ever built

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/oct/31/us-space-shuttle-discovery-mission

US space shuttle programme faces its final countdown.
Tomorrow, Discovery will take off on one of its final missions.

Why, 30 years after the reusable rocket launcher threatened to make travel beyond Earth commonplace, did the project fall from grace?

Columbia's flight was greeted with adulation. Its revolutionary engines had worked perfectly despite the colossal, violent heat of the combustion of its hydrogen and oxygen fuels, while its thermal insulation tiles had survived the searing temperatures of re-entry. The day of the expendable launcher was over. Space travel would soon be commonplace.

At least that is what Nasa said would happen. In reality, what occurred was a desperate disappointment. Flights of the shuttle – despite its brilliant engineering – never became commonplace. Columbia and its sister craft were supposed to make 50 flights a year, according to Nasa launch manifests. But only 132 shuttle missions were flown between 1981 and 2010, an average of 4.5 a year, a grimly inadequate figure for a craft that "will revolutionise transportation into near space by routinising it", as President Nixon announced in 1972.

Worse, two of the five shuttles that were built – Challenger and Columbia – were destroyed in accidents that killed 14 astronauts. In the wake of these tragedies, Nasa engineers became more and more safety-conscious and launch costs soared from Nasa's estimate of $7m a mission to almost $1bn. Thus the shuttle has become the costliest, most dangerous transport system ever built.

A LOT more at link.

Very interesting piece. Almost a billion dollars a mission?
I wonder where they came up with the idea that 7 million a mission was realistic?

Later in the article makes an interesting point:

After Apollo 11, Nasa asked that the Saturn V be allowed to ferry large modules into orbit, where a space station could be constructed by 1975. From there a Mars mission could be launched in the 1980s.

President Nixon and his staff just looked at the plan and said, 'Are you kidding?'" says Logsdon, a white-haired, imposing but genial figure. "They were not interested in such a programme because they calculated it would do them no good in their term of office. They wanted a faster fix."

Instead, says Logsdon, Nixon and his aides simply took a map of the United States and looked at key states they needed to win to ensure victory in the 1972 presidential election. The decision came to set up a major aerospace programme involving these states. Construction of a reusable space shuttle, an idea that Nasa had also being toying with, fitted the bill. The agency was ordered to prepare detailed plans – on a very tight budget.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,364
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He didnt. And its not all Nixons fault. And a buttload of presidents since him had the chance to correct it anyway.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
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We have never gained a thing for all the money we have shot into space. Worst investment in the history of the world.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
0
I read what you quoted in the OP. Sorry, not going to waste my time reading any more :).

I didn't post it as a dig at Nixon. The Nixon part came at the beginning of an excellent piece and I figured it would catch peoples attention, in the hope they would read the whole thing.
I have followed the shuttle program from the very beginning and try and read whatever I can on it. It's interesting since I lived thru the decision to build it, and can now compare what people knew back then with what was really happening behind the scenes.

We, as a country, need to figure out what we want to do in space. Many people were upset with Obama's retasking of the space program. And, most people don't know that most Tea Party candidates are for cutting way back on NASA.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,364
136
We have never gained a thing for all the money we have shot into space. Worst investment in the history of the world.

You sir, are fail.
Much of the tech advancements we enjoy today started with the space program, cuz stuff had to be lighter and smaller and not as ridiculously expensive.
 

SKORPI0

Lifer
Jan 18, 2000
18,340
2,245
126
4cb23b54_34ad_dfef.jpg


I think the female astronauts used this during the flights. :awe:
 

Drako

Lifer
Jun 9, 2007
10,706
161
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I didn't post it as a dig at Nixon. The Nixon part came at the beginning of an excellent piece and I figured it would catch peoples attention, in the hope they would read the whole thing.
I have followed the shuttle program from the very beginning and try and read whatever I can on it. It's interesting since I lived thru the decision to build it, and can now compare what people knew back then with what was really happening behind the scenes.

We, as a country, need to figure out what we want to do in space. Many people were upset with Obama's retasking of the space program. And, most people don't know that most Tea Party candidates are for cutting way back on NASA.

<------- P&N

And LOL at Obama's retasking of the space program. That's a laugh.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
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You sir, are fail.
Much of the tech advancements we enjoy today started with the space program, cuz stuff had to be lighter and smaller and not as ridiculously expensive.

So you say and probably read on a forum on the interweb so it must be true.
 

qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,087
69
91
I'm no fan of the shuttle program or of NASA in general, but "most dangerous" is more than a bit of an overstatement. 130 out of 132 of shuttle missions were completed safely. That's a success rate of ~98.5&#37;, which means that it's most likely safer than driving your car.

And those two disasters were caused at least as much by the stupidity of NASA's management as by flaws in the shuttle's design.

And LOL @50 flights a year.
 
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CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
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Wait just a minute here... So you're telling me that there is a government program that is running way, way over budget and achieving only about 9&#37; of its performance goal? I'm shocked!
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
We learned more and more that religion is retarded.

Religion has nothing to do with this, but of course you are just a troll that has to bring it up. I TOLD YOU THAT ONLY THE TROLLS BRING UP RELIGION IN EVERY THREAD.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,920
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well, isn't nasa's new mission going to be a outreach program for islam? How safe will that be? In islam it's a mans world.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
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I'm no fan of the shuttle program or of NASA in general, but "most dangerous" is more than a bit of an overstatement. 130 out of 132 of shuttle missions were completed safely. That's a success rate of ~98.5%, which means that it's most likely safer than driving your car.

And those two disasters were caused at least as much by the stupidity of NASA's management as by flaws in the shuttle's design.

And LOL @50 flights a year.

Clearly by some statistics is was safer and by some quite dangerous.
Since the shuttle went such great distances each flight if you judge fatalities by miles it was pretty good. If you judge it by number of flights, it was a death trap. If you judge it by number of people it carried, death trap.
So, by some valid reasoning it was pretty dangerous. Heck, next to Apollo,if you only count the flights and not the ground test accident the Shuttle was infinitely more dangerous.

If you compare it to disposable, one use launch vehichles it still has a terrible record.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
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The problem is, most politicians see the concept of humans in space as something of little importance; they see it more as a show of might and intelligence, because space was once exactly that in the geopolitical arena.

Now? Now efforts to do anything in space are seen as wasted expenses, which is why NASA gets one of the smallest budgets among all the civilian agencies of the Federal government. It just doesn't matter to politicians, nobody sees the actual value of putting man in space - it's something we conquered, what's left to do?

Of course, nobody thinks about the future. Thinking about the future is to be left to the people who will live in the future. :hmm: :rolleyes:
So, what about the problems we may eventually face here on Earth? Pshah, let those alive at that point in time (mind you, when it's already too late) deal with figuring out a solution!

Of course, if you sweet talk politicians into believing all the space exploration and colonization we would like, is for the purpose of finding energy sources off-world. That might get space agencies a bigger budget. :\
 

Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,357
9
81
We have never gained a thing for all the money we have shot into space. Worst investment in the history of the world.

Apart from the technology (lighter materials, gps, spy satellites, communications, telescopes, etc) and scientific discoveries/advances (everything from big bang info to tracking asteroids)...yeah, 'nothing'. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,087
69
91
Clearly by some statistics is was safer and by some quite dangerous.
Since the shuttle went such great distances each flight if you judge fatalities by miles it was pretty good. If you judge it by number of flights, it was a death trap. If you judge it by number of people it carried, death trap.
So, by some valid reasoning it was pretty dangerous. Heck, next to Apollo,if you only count the flights and not the ground test accident the Shuttle was infinitely more dangerous.

If you compare it to disposable, one use launch vehichles it still has a terrible record.
Of those programs involving disposable spacecraft, only the Soyuz has had even remotely as many launches as the STS, and it's had its share of failures and fatalities as well.

"Infinitely more dangerous." You seem to have a real talent for hyperbole.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,561
4
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Of those programs involving disposable spacecraft, only the Soyuz has had even remotely as many launches as the STS, and it's had its share of failures and fatalities as well.

"Infinitely more dangerous." You seem to have a real talent for hyperbole.
Comparing Apollo which had no fatalities during missions and the shuttle technically even one fatality makes it "infinitely" more.