• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

The secret to Math?

L

Literati

Golden Member
Short aaaaand sweet.

I halfway suck at math. Algebra to be exact. I'm pretty sure it's a confidence problem.

It's ridiculously easy for me in my head during class, basically when I relax and I don't really care. A pressure-less environment

But come exam time, I mix up all types of stuff, and end up blowing the exam. It's pretty aggravating.

I'm a big fan of math, it does a lot of things, and there's a lot of people on ATOT who are really good at math.

So my question is, what's the friggin secret? Is just pounding it into your head the only option left for people who it just doesn't completely click with? Anyone have any similiar problems and have some advice?

I swear, this isn't for homework.

Here's a picture for your troubles.

http://www.gary99.utvinternet.com/tennis/fashion/john-mcenroe.jpg

Thanks.
 
I find that I tend to perform better when I think rather than memorize. That may very well be the secret to math (and a ton of other things).
 
Originally posted by: hypn0tik
I find that I tend to perform better when I think rather than memorize. That may very well be the secret to math (and a ton of other things).
Click to expand...

That's pretty much how I push it through in my math classes... I try to minimize forced memorization; although many formulas become second nature simply as a result of using them all the time. (or thinking briefly about how to derive them in your head - this leads to faster and faster derivations until it's questionable whether you have the formula memorized, or rather, you derive it in a fraction of a split second)
 
Originally posted by: sheik124
THE GOGGLES THEY DO NOTHING!
Click to expand...

hahaha

Originally posted by: hypn0tik
I find that I tend to perform better when I think rather than memorize. That may very well be the secret to math (and a ton of other things).
Click to expand...

That's a very sound approach.

I appreceate the input.
 
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: hypn0tik
I find that I tend to perform better when I think rather than memorize. That may very well be the secret to math (and a ton of other things).
Click to expand...

That's pretty much how I push it through in my math classes... I try to minimize forced memorization; although many formulas become second nature simply as a result of using them all the time. (or thinking briefly about how to derive them in your head - this leads to faster and faster derivations until it's questionable whether you have the formula memorized, or rather, you derive it in a fraction of a split second)
Click to expand...

Sounds like this may be the way to go.

Care to elaborate a little?

I really believe there's something psychological going on. I almost expect myself to fail and in doing so, fail. I'm not the smartest guy in the library, but I have a hunch that's not a very good approach.

I also picked up the book A Journey Through Genius to get some applicable history on the subject. I truly love / hate math. I love the nature of it, but I hate my innate inability to comprehend the friggin thing.

I'd like to blame my inadequacies on the local school system, and I can find a grip of other people who will do just that, but I refuse to believe that's what's holding me back.
 
Originally posted by: Literati
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: hypn0tik
I find that I tend to perform better when I think rather than memorize. That may very well be the secret to math (and a ton of other things).
Click to expand...

That's pretty much how I push it through in my math classes... I try to minimize forced memorization; although many formulas become second nature simply as a result of using them all the time. (or thinking briefly about how to derive them in your head - this leads to faster and faster derivations until it's questionable whether you have the formula memorized, or rather, you derive it in a fraction of a split second)
Click to expand...

Sounds like this may be the way to go.

Care to elaborate a little?

I really believe there's something psychological going on. I almost expect myself to fail and in doing so, fail. I'm not the smartest guy in the library, but I have a hunch that's not a very good approach.

I also picked up the book A Journey Through Genius to get some applicable history on the subject. I truly love / hate math. I love the nature of it, but I hate my innate inability to comprehend the friggin thing.

I'd like to blame my inadequacies on the local school system, and I can find a grip of other people who will do just that, but I refuse to believe that's what's holding me back.
Click to expand...

It also depends on where you are having difficulty. I'm not sure what type of Math you're currently taking (by that I mean Calculus, Algebra, Complex Analysis etc...) but it helps a great deal to draw pictures whenever possible. You may think you can visualize the problem at hand, but often times you will miss a detail or two.

It may really help us if you posted a few problems that you were having difficulty with and your attempted solution. It may be easier to determine if your problem is in setting up the problem, performing the necessary algebraic manipulations, or if you just don't understand what's going on. I guess once the problem is found, it becomes much easier to fix it.

Edit: I have a problem in finding synomyms for the word problem.
 
I'll elaborate in about 20 minutes if you'll be around.

I have to take care of something. Thanks for the help.
 
Originally posted by: Literati
I'll elaborate in about 20 minutes if you'll be around.

I have to take care of something. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

I'm on my way to the library right now. Have midterms on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. I'll be neffing here periodically, so feel free to drop me a PM or post your questions here. I'll keep checking. If not, I'm sure there are others here that will be able to help you out as well.
 
If your answer is wrong from the back of the book...go back and multiply your answer by 0, than add the answer from the book. That is how to do math.

-- My math teacher when he was frustrated at the books answers always being wrong
 
I think that half the battle is becoming familiar with the notation... I'm taking digital signals processing this semester, which is based on the fourier series/transform. Some of these formulas, sigma summations of complex terms, scared the crap outta me. On top of that, I had to get used to thinking of discrete signals instead of analog. And, the concepts/strategies of the various transforms are easy to lose sight of when you're wading through lines and lines of math.

Sometimes you just have to jump in head first, copy an recopy example problems a few times over. It's ok if you don't *completely* understand what's happening. You will become more familiar with the language, and one day something will just snap and you will understand.

I will admit though, that the formalities sometimes piss me off. I just hate when the prof tries to teach using as little english as possible and as much math. Some of these guys just REVEL in the complexity, and with them crankin out formulas is the 1337 thing to do. Derivations don't impress me. I would rather hear the verbal explanation.
 
The secret is to do your homework and do it on your own. Alot of mathematical concepts aer best learned by repetition. memorizing rules will always result in failure. Do the homework, if you do it all on your own and still have test problems, I don't know what to say.
 
Here's my essay!

---

Ok, where to start? where to start?

Well first things first, I?m having trouble with Intermediate Algebra. Always have. But this is not trouble in the classical sense, as in I?m not able to comprehend certain problems, but that I?m more so either hit or miss with any problem at any given time.

A typical ?cycle? goes like this.

I show up to class, we?re covering variations for example, direct variation, inverse, joint etc. Simple enough. Our professor throws examples and notes up on the board that I completely comprehend and I?m often going to the next step in my head just to see if I can figure out where this is leading us, and I often I get it right. Seems logical to go from A to B to C to get the answer in my head, and more often than not that?s how math problems are solved (as far as I know) and that?s how it goes down in class with me practically figuring out how to solve these examples before the professor shows us fully.

I take notes in class along with everyone else as a sort of rote memorization tool even though this seems like extremely easy algebra to me at the time.

After class I?ll go to the library or home and go over what we did in class and I can figure out all the problems extremely easy. I think to myself ?yep, just as I suspected, the process of solving these problems did not change during the drive home? and I finish up.

I?ll wake up the next morning work go to my other classes or whatever. When I get a second I?ll review, and this is when things get shaky. Sometimes I just coast through it like the night before, or sometimes I?ll have a hard time recalling the first step to a problem or something of that nature.

Then psychology rears its ugly nightmarish head again, and as soon as I get shaky on the first step of something, it?s like it?ll blow the whole process out of the water. It?s like looking down the barrel of a gun. I?m fine until that one little tiny practically random trigger gets pulled, then everything just gets blown away. I have come to expect this of myself. I?ll start fragmenting and mixing steps, forgetting the order of the steps so on and so forth. I lose complete confidence in my ability to figure out the problem off the top of my head.

So I?ll think ?Here we go again?? and I?ll crack the book open. I see the first step, the missing link and like magic all the previous information comes back like a flood. I remember how to do everything from the unit and from the previous class.

It?s like I lose something over time, like my confidence in my ability to recall the information off the top of my head.

And that?s exactly how I get jammed up at exam time.

I sit down, see that one problem, the trigger gets pulled, and a huge chunk of my exam is wiped out and never finished or done right.

I have a habit of paying extremely close attention to detail and sometimes missing the ?big picture? and I think this is somehow playing into my self-reinforced idea that when it comes to math on my own, I?m destined to crash and burn.

I?ve done tutors, books, videos etc. I?m convinced it has to do with my perspective as opposed to my ability to comprehend what seems to be extremely easy algebra. It?s just people cannot explain to me the ?right perspective? or the right way to look at math as a whole.

I do it sometimes, like in class, and other times I have no clue what?s going on. There?s something I?m missing, a system to go about applying to math as a whole, a way to view mathematical problems.
 
Originally posted by: ShadowBlade
the secret:

TI-89
Click to expand...

I was chatting with a friend who teaches Calculus in a university. Many of his students had taken calculus in 2 or 3 particular high schools where they were allowed to use TI-89's. While they were capable of finding the correct answer, they were unable to show any work - they didn't know how and struggled to learn how to show work in the class. Thus, they couldn't "do" calculus - all they could do was use a calculator to find the correct answer. That's only slightly more skillful than scanning in a problem, and using OCR software to read the problem and input it into a math program that will find the answer. Last I talked to him, out of 24 kids, 6 quit showing up for class, 8 others were failing with no hope in sight. Give me a kid in 4th grade and a few weeks to teach him, and I can have him entering calculus equations into Mathematica all day. That doesn't mean he knows any math beyond what he learned in 4th grade. Sure, he can find the answers; big deal.

TI-89 is *not* learning math, it's learning how to use a tool that has been programmed to do the math for you.

 
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
The secret is to do your homework and do it on your own. Alot of mathematical concepts aer best learned by repetition. memorizing rules will always result in failure. Do the homework, if you do it all on your own and still have test problems, I don't know what to say.
Click to expand...

My tutors all tell me the same thing, "I can tell by the way you write this problem out, it's organization, cleanliness blah blah blah that you'll have no problem with this come exam time!"

Right...

This has to be one of the most frustrating things... I've ever experienced.

Maybe I should see a psychologist to learn math hah!
 
Originally posted by: Literati
Here's my essay!
...
Click to expand...

It seems like the problem you're having is not getting enough practice. Do you do all your homework?

Edit: I have to agree with IHateMyJob2004. You HAVE to do your homework ALL by yourself. You'll think you understand a problem if you work through it using a solution's manual, but trust me, you learn nothing. You learn best by attempting it yourself. Try doing the problems yourself. If you get stuck somewhere, don't look at the solutions. Think about where you are getting stuck. Whenever I'm stuck, I get out of my chair, wander around and write in the air with my finger and talk to myself. It seems to work wonders for me.
 
Originally posted by: hypn0tik
It seems like the problem you're having is not getting enough practice. Do you do all your homework?
Click to expand...

Yes. Not only that, when I do my homework it seems like an exercise in futility.

Maybe I just need to pound it into my brain? Maybe do my homework 3-4 times regardless of how easy it comes to me.

It's a tough cycle.

🙁

It's just sooo frustrating knowing that not only do I know and comprehend all of the stuff with practically no trouble at all, that my problem lies in my inability to recall a key step.

So my hearts never really in homework after awhile because I just breeze through it, and I know that even if I continue to do the same problems over and over again, I might just bomb anyways. It's not a very motivational situation.

For example, I studied for 4 hours a day, for about 5 days for my first exam last semester. I completely BOMBED the exam. I got like a 52. I just didn't care anymore.

So the next exam comes, I completely neglected EVERYTHING the new exam was covering until maybe 1 hour before the exam. I skimmed over a practice test, got something to eat and went in with a screw it attitude.

I got a 97.
 
Ahhh, after reading what you wrote, Literati...
There are two schools of thought: one is that some people are naturally gifted in their ability to do math, the other is that everyone can learn to the same level of math, given good enough teachers. I'm somewhere in the middle, but leaning toward "naturally gifted." There's something called "mathematical insight" that some people seem to possess and others don't possess. This is the ability to look at a novel problem (one you haven't seen before) and figure out the best way to approach it, starting from step one.

Only about half of the students (if that) who make it into my pre-calculus or calculus classes seem to possess this "gift". The majority of those students can arrive at a solution, out of sheer stick-to-it-iveness. An example problem that I gave as a challenge problem this week: There is a 30x35x10 inch box on the floor, with its largest face against the floor. A bug wants to get from one corner on the floor to the opposite corner on the floor. He may crawl in any direction on any surface or edge, but cannot crawl through or under the box. What is the shortest route? Immediately, virtually every student I have was able to quickly calculate a route for going along the edges at the bottom (30 + 35 = 65), then crawling up the edge 10 inches, diagonally (pythagorean theorem), and down the opposite side (10 more inches). This route was slightly longer. Then, some realized the bug could crawl diagonally across the side, diagonally across the top, and diagonally across the other side; yet they couldn't figure out where the bug would have to reach the top edge when crawling upward diagonally (one student guessed it was the center of the edge). The insight that would have made this problem very easy for them was to unfold the box (making a big cardboard plus)

It's not a matter of having seen someone else solve a similar problem but with different numbers before; it's just an ability to "see" things.

The reason I said that I'm somewhere in the middle of those two groups of thought is that I believe that most people can develop this ability; I'm just uncertain if everyone has the same potential for its development. Take the time to attempt math puzzles/ math problems of the week/ math problems of the month, etc. There are numerous sites all over the internet dedicated to such problems. Many of the people who are good in math enjoy these puzzles as fun challenges and see them as a hobby or way to relax while exercising their gray matter. I think that in addition to providing a recreational activity for these people that the puzzles also help them develop more mathematical insight.

Through working out a great deal of problems, these are the people who see "cos 2x = 2cos^2x - 1 and can "see" cos .5x = +/- sqrt((1+cosx)/2). Thus, they may "memorize" the double angle formula for cos 2x, but having that in their mind, they can write down the half angle formula. Then again, they don't "memorize" the double angle formula. They "know" it, because many of these people have derived it repeatedly from the cos(x+y) formula which they "memorized"...
 
Originally posted by: hypn0tik
Originally posted by: Literati
Here's my essay!
...
Click to expand...

It seems like the problem you're having is not getting enough practice. Do you do all your homework?

Edit: I have to agree with IHateMyJob2004. You HAVE to do your homework ALL by yourself. You'll think you understand a problem if you work through it using a solution's manual, but trust me, you learn nothing. You learn best by attempting it yourself. Try doing the problems yourself. If you get stuck somewhere, don't look at the solutions. Think about where you are getting stuck. Whenever I'm stuck, I get out of my chair, wander around and write in the air with my finger and talk to myself. It seems to work wonders for me.
Click to expand...

You know what? You two might be right.

I think I'm viewing math as a series of inanimate stale steps... if that makes sense, as opposed to a living, working system.

I think I'm just ?zombieing? myself with these steps and formulas as opposed to trying to figure out the nature and capabilities of them.

I think I might be looking at math like I'd look at a dog and just think, it's a dog, with a tail legs, etc. As opposed to seeing the bigger picture, characteristics of personality, environmental interaction.

Did that make sense? It did to me but I'm not sure how that ones gonna carry heh
 
Originally posted by: Literati
Originally posted by: ShadowBlade
the secret:

TI-89
Click to expand...

Unfortunately we are not allowed to use them on exams this semester.
Click to expand...

The trick to getting math is not the TI-89, but doing as many problems as possible. You need to be able to look at a problem and be familiar with the tactics of solving similar problems. When you get to partial differential equations, this gets even more important as there are many tricks that you need to apply for certain situations. Picking, say, a Fourier sine series transform rather than a Fourier cosine series transformation would be a simple mistake, lots of wasted work, and no partial credit. Practice makes perfect.

Being able to identify key words, phrases helps a ton. If the homework problems are too easy for you, its time to seek out a higher level text book on your own, and practice those problems. There are always harder problems 😛
 
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Ahhh, after reading what you wrote, Literati...
Click to expand...

I agree.

In 6-7th grade I was easily 2 years ahead of my math classes, and probably would have been able to do what I'm having trouble with now, with no problem.

It was a guilty pleasure back then. I got moved into advanced classes, pre-algebra blah blah blah and it was easy for me. Everything clicked, and things were good.

Then I completely lost interest in math, it got extremely boring to me. I was being drilled about how I cam up with this answer that answer and it wasn't fun. I was explaining stuff to my teachers that I knew they knew how to do it because they wanted me to prove that I was actually grasping the information etc. and that it wasn't a "fluke" or anything.

The frustrating part was I knew they knew how to do this stuff, why do I have to take exams or whatever, solve the problems, then prove myself by solving them again after class with the teacher etc.

I guess I kind of quit math after that. I wanted it to be easy, and it was, but not to the point I'm being held after class and being placed under a microscope, or offered to join clubs or whatever etc.

I guess I just decided from there on out to be a "dumb" kid and not apply myself. It was just easier being one of the regular kids.

I just neglected math alltogether from about 7th grade to one year ago (I'm now 24).

Maybe that's where all this is coming from Doc!

*lies down on the couch*

It all started in 4th grade...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top