There must be something lost in translation here, the device does not use 100W, it's more like 1-2X the power usage of a 120mm fan.
source
Why are people comparing this research/proof of concept to enthusiast grade coolers for mid-tower/full-tower gaming PCs? From the Q&A:
Q: The “Thermal Brick Wall” is at 4GHz, not 3GHz…
JK: My point is that if you introduce a drastic improvement in thermal management technology, whatever the number for thermal brick wall may be, it gets pushed a lot higher. In researching this question, I came to the conclusion that 3 GHz is typical of high-end mass-marketed machines, such as those used in the commercial and residential sector. I work for the Department of Energy, so my focus on mass-marketed machines reflects an interest in the broader impact that this new technology could have. I didn’t mean to ignore the people who are at the upper end of the performance spectrum. I believe air bearing heat exchanger technology will prove useful to them as well.
Q: The “Thermal Brick Wall” is at 4GHz, not 3GHz…
JK: My point is that if you introduce a drastic improvement in thermal management technology, whatever the number for thermal brick wall may be, it gets pushed a lot higher. In researching this question, I came to the conclusion that 3 GHz is typical of high-end mass-marketed machines, such as those used in the commercial and residential sector. I work for the Department of Energy, so my focus on mass-marketed machines reflects an interest in the broader impact that this new technology could have. I didn’t mean to ignore the people who are at the upper end of the performance spectrum. I believe air bearing heat exchanger technology will prove useful to them as well.
^ I think it will be great for laptops where small and quiet are very desirable attributes of coolers.
according to their own pdf it consumed 20w in lab tests @ .2 c/w, its on page 15.
also the point about the 100w claim was in regards to the darpa cooler. if you read the link i posted under it you would have seen that was false.
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Assuming my research is correct, 2008 DARPA MACE is a contest of HS design. "State of the art performance" is defined as follows. the device must be able to cool a heat source powered with 1,000 watt and ambient temp of 30c. Each design must not use more than 100Watt, smaller than 4inch^3, lighter than 800g and thermal resistance of .2 c/w.
The goal of that contest is to create a device that is around 4 inch^3, lighter than 800g, thermal resistance of .05 c/w, and and use only 33 watt.
The purpose of that paragraph is to demonstrate that the phototype can beat what is classified as "state of the art performance" cooling device.
As to the 20watt usage, it is due to the massive heat source. CPU doesn't produce 1k watt worth of heat.
Here is the detail of 2008 DARPA MACE I got with my google-fu.
As a side note, Thermacore has won that contest and given loads of cash to create a device that the contest is aiming for. While it's design/phototype was the best of all others, there are no indication that they have made a device that reached the goal. (I may be wrong).
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Regardless what is in the whitepaper, the guy is on record as stating they have two more stages of prototypes in the lab right now and power-consumption is down to 6W with 5W being viewed as acheivable.
If you haven't read the Q&A I highly recommend it.
MustangSVT
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2000
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i don't know, but i found the website for it https://ip.sandia.gov/technology.xhtml?techID=66
looks like it was last updated 9/26/2011
looks like it was last updated 9/26/2011
T_Yamamoto
Lifer
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The benefit of this approach turns on one design aspect. Heat is transferred to the rotating surface first. Centripetal force will always move dead air but that does you no good unless the rotating surface is hot so it transfers heat to the dead air before it is evacuated. The design makes the movement of dead air productive by using the rotating surface to heat dead air. It is not about airflow, it is about heat transfer. The part where a thin air gap replaces thermal grease is counter intuitive.
Looks dangerous. And doesn't it take quite a bit of energy to rotate this thing compared to a light plastic fan?
The gap is only 30 micron, so those particles would have to be very small to get in there. And at that scale the rotating discs have a phenomenal speed, so it would rip them apart into even smaller particles. These discs are metal, so anything softer than metal would get obliterated. Anything harder than metal, well, you don't want that floating around freely anyway since it would probably be carcinogenic. :hmm:I don't think anyone has adequately addressed the question I had over on the Cases & Cooling thread on this: What happens when a dirt particle gets stuck in the gap. Screeeeeeeeeeeeeech... Sizzlesizzlesizzle...
You do know that a grain of sand is considerably harder than metal, right?
Regardless, this looks like an interesting approach. I'd like to see more of their work if/as they develop it. Mustang, I think you're misunderstanding how things work in academic or government lab circles. This isn't a company where they got the prototype working, and now there will be a mad rush to produce it. They've now demonstrated it, and classified it as TRL 4. If someone wants to come in with funding for further developments or wants to license it, maybe it will hit the shelves. Until then, it will probably just sit there.
You do know that a typical grain of sand is considerably larger than 30 micron, right?
Sand particles can be made smaller into a kind of dust or powder, but inhaling that stuff makes you very sick.
It's also a matter of quantity. One such grinding dust particle won't damage this cooler (or your lungs) in any significant way. You need billions of them and it can take a lifetime to see any effect from the amount of naturally occurring particles.
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Definitely, I was just pointing out that many common things, including constituents of household dust, are harder than metal. It wouldn't take a buildup of any special material to cause issues at the interface if it was allowed to get contaminated. There's a reason hard drives are sealed to air at the factory.
eternalone
Golden Member
- Sep 10, 2008
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This is actually quite possible, because there's gonna be kids who'd want to run this without a shroud for "extra performance"
eternalone
Golden Member
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what they need to do is forget about fans. The cpu's company's need to invest in finding some kind of unheatable metal alloy , similiar to the type of wood that is used in making tobbacco pipes, the wood itself is fireproof but is still wood. Its 2012 where are the nanobots according to the movies the first prototype T-1000 should already be on the drawing board and the Cyberdyne Systems Model 101, should be walking around in a couple of years and we are still using fans to cool our cpu's like if they were classrooms?
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Magic Carpet
Diamond Member
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I suppose, the tobacco market is much more lucrative and desired, though. With the power consumption slowly but steadily going down, I don't see an imminent need in such advanced researches. Just poor ROI, imo.
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that's what we've been hearing, but please tell me, how hot is an overclocked 3770K at load?
T_Yamamoto
Lifer
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Magic Carpet
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