The sad story of mushrooms and a pilot that tried to crash a plane:

[Moonbeam]

‘Is This Hell?’ The Pilot Accused of Trying to Crash a Plane Tells His Story. (Published 2023)

Joseph Emerson, charged with attempted murder, said he felt trapped in a dream after taking mushrooms. He had feared mental health treatments that could disrupt his career.

www.nytimes.com

The moral of the story first: If you break through the walls that separate you from repressed memory ignorant of their content or even that they lie hidden within, you may have an experience so intense and bewildering you might become a danger to yourself and others.

There are many ways the walls of perception can fall. It can happen on a drug trip, it can happen under any form of intense stress, the loss of a loved one, rejection by a lover, the end of some ego ambition, something that jars and is similar to something we experienced in the past.

A pilot who was bullied as a child who has been unable to cope with the grief of a lost friend takes mushrooms that cause memories to surface that will destroy his life if he seeks any form of psychological relief from them. He experiences this as a dream he can't awake from due to irrepressible panic and fear. He attempt to crash the plane in an attempt to awaken or to end the hellish torment. He has no idea that what he is trying not to feel is how worthless he feels deep inside. His fear, and the effort to suppress its expression and the fact that the drug experience has opened a door he can no longer keep closed is only a problem because of his own state of ignorance. He does not know that he was made to feel worthless by the childhood humiliation he experienced nor does he know that all those scars that it left were actually based on the fact that he was made to feel things about himself that were simply untrue. He was a victim of other self-haters that turned their self hate on him.

Did we but live in a society that was wise in its psychological understanding of human nature, it there were only many many people around who had healed, if the truth of what happened to us all were widely available and something everybody was taught, perhaps we would not be so afraid of the truth, so fearful of others who are aware that they hurt, so fearful of discovering that we are all the same.

Probably, though, this sad story can only be understood by people who can see, who have some idea of what is hidden within. Perhaps though, that reading this, if the doors to your own perception are ever blown open by some future event, and madness knocks on your door, perhaps it would be wise to remember that that too is just another illusion, that those deeply repressed feelings and what they tell you about your self worth, are just another lie no more real than the lie had been telling yourself you were OK. The truth is that we were OK before we were sick and that state of joy is where we will wind up at the very bottom of the well.

Surely this is the reason that men of knowledge say we were created in God's Image. Small comfort, I guess, for those who do not know what God is.

 

[5to1baby1in5]

Stupid NY Times pay wall.
Can't read the article.

Did he eat the whole bag, or just a gram ot two? I can't imagine why someone would want to trip balls in a confined space like an aluminum can with wings. I would think an undamaged individual would act similarly in that situation if the dose was high enough.

Isn't the psychological dose fairly large so as to rip out a person's ego and rebirth it?

 

[Moonbeam]

Stupid NY Times pay wall.
Can't read the article.

Did he eat the whole bag, or just a gram ot two? I can't imagine why someone would want to trip balls in a confined space like an aluminum can with wings. I would think an undamaged individual would act similarly in that situation if the dose was high enough.

Isn't the psychological dose fairly large so as to rip out a person's ego and rebirth it?

I had read earlier in the week about a pilot attempting to crash a plane and was curious as to what the motive might be. When I saw this additional article I I just had to find out what it said so i used the 'way back machine'. He didn't have much and was goaded by peers with 6 days before his next flight and was assured that no traces would show up in a blood test. Sounds like he was before getting cracked open by a psychogenic a pretty decent guy who had that if public knowledge would have lead to losing his job. That is just another unfortunate result of cultural stupidity regarding mental health. We are all sick and none of us wants anybody else to get well. Imagine if you were psychologically unprepared to face that truth about ourselves and felt it was just true of you alone when it is in fact universal. We all fear monsters and we become what we fear via denial. We are not alone.

I give to The Guardian voluntarily but the NYT the subscription fee is fixed at a rate beyond my needs. I usually move on when I hit their paywall.

Some info here with less detail:

https://ktla.com/news/california/ap-pilot-who-police-say-tried-to-cut-the-engines-on-a-jet-midflight-now-faces-a-federal-charge/

 

[Muse]

Stupid NY Times pay wall.
Can't read the article.

Did he eat the whole bag, or just a gram ot two? I can't imagine why someone would want to trip balls in a confined space like an aluminum can with wings. I would think an undamaged individual would act similarly in that situation if the dose was high enough.

Isn't the psychological dose fairly large so as to rip out a person's ego and rebirth it?

The story, at least early on (in the first day or two) said he'd taken the shrooms 2 days before the incident. Recently it was suggested it was a small dose, but quite possibly nobody has the faintest idea what the dose was or even the species of shrooms. I read (sorta scanning) the story in the NYTimes a couple days ago and got the impression that a lot of the info may have been kinda made up, paste together of things the guy has been saying. What exactly happened and what his experience was seems pretty uncertain. kind of like what you hear when people tell you about their drug experiences, maybe sorted through a few people. How his court case(s) will play out? I wouldn't want to be on that jury. Or be the judge.

He's maintaining now that he tried to bring down the plane in order to wake him up from the dream he thought he was having. He will probably never pilot a plane again.

 

[skyking]

I hope not!

 

[hal2kilo]

Stupid NY Times pay wall.
Can't read the article.

Did he eat the whole bag, or just a gram ot two? I can't imagine why someone would want to trip balls in a confined space like an aluminum can with wings. I would think an undamaged individual would act similarly in that situation if the dose was high enough.

Isn't the psychological dose fairly large so as to rip out a person's ego and rebirth it?

Not much thought put into Set and Setting. It's not a party, or feel good drug folks.

 

[Leeea]

Surely this is the reason that men of knowledge say we were created in God's Image. Small comfort, I guess, for those who do not know what God is.

god's image?

I have seen the inside of my mind, and if that is gods image I want nothing to do with god.



As for this poor guy, this is what happens when someone tries to fix themselves. Trying to self medicate with any drug of any type is always stupid. It doesn't matter who you are, your not capable of helping yourself.


mental health issue = your not thinking correctly
your not thinking correctly = your not capable correctly assessing yourself
incapable of correctly assessing yourself = incapable of correctly fixing yourself

All mental health issues require professional help.

 

[Leeea]

Not much thought put into Set and Setting. It's not a party, or feel good drug folks.

I don't know much about it, but I have always been told mushrooms require a guide that knows the dose, how its done, and stays with the person for the whole thing. It is not something done alone. It is just a different type of professional help. Doesn't work for everyone.

 

[hal2kilo]

god's image?

I have seen the inside of my mind, and if that is gods image I want nothing to do with god.



As for this poor guy, this is what happens when someone tries to fix themselves. Trying to self medicate with any drug of any type is always stupid. It doesn't matter who you are, your not capable of helping yourself.


mental health issue = your not thinking correctly
your not thinking correctly = your not capable correctly assessing yourself
incapable of correctly assessing yourself = incapable of correctly fixing yourself

All mental health issues require professional help.

I've never gone into an experience expecting anything. Never would I consider taking any hallucinogen when I not mentally in a good place. You can have absolutely ecstatic waves of euphoria, and you can have hellish visions, and thoughts. It's all part of the deal.

 

[Leeea]

Never would I consider taking any hallucinogen when I not mentally in a good place.

Fun fact, never took a hallucinogen here.

Some of us a just unlucky in life.


In other news, Autism and Psychosis have a 34% comorbidity rate. Except it doesn't go away when your hallucinogen of choice flushes out of your system. And the is no ecstatic waves of euphoria, ever. The hellish visions, whispers, thoughts on the other hand, very familiar.

 

[dank69]

I don't know much about it, but I have always been told mushrooms require a guide that knows the dose, how its done, and stays with the person for the whole thing. It is not something done alone. It is just a different type of professional help.

That sounds a lot better than the way we did it back in the day. Just a bunch of fuckin morons melting into whatever's around. I will tell you this though, the more nature available, the better.

 

[Moonbeam]

That sounds a lot better than the way we did it back in the day. Just a bunch of fuckin morons melting into whatever's around. I will tell you this though, the more nature available, the better.

Forgive the change of subject but you have just spoken about why I oppose high density living. The more nature the better for one's mental health, in my opinion.

 

[Moonbeam]

mental health issue = your not thinking correctly
your not thinking correctly = your not capable correctly assessing yourself
incapable of correctly assessing yourself = incapable of correctly fixing yourself

All mental health issues require professional help.

all mental health issues require professional help but what if the mental health professional is not mentally healthy

the mental health professional will not be thinking correctly

if the mental health professional is not thinking correctly he will not be able to correctly assess you

if he can't correctly assess you he won't be able to fix you.

So tell me, what is mental health? Would you not need to be mentally healthy to know if your mental health professional is, or are you just like a religious believer, and a piece of paper on a wall will do it for you?

 

[Paratus]

I can say the FAA’s draconian rules on mental health have probably hurt more than they help. 20 years ago when I started as flight controller and we followed the same requirements as FAA air traffic controllers if you were depressed and sought treatment you would temporarily or permanently lose your flight certification.

While I didn’t specifically know of anybody who had significant mental health issues and was still working, when talking about this issue most folks said they would tough out or hide whatever problems they were having rather than seeking help or medication so not to lose their flight cert.

I’ll note alcohol was fine as long as you weren’t showing up to work under the influence . So I assume some folks who were having issues were self-medicating.


I’m glad they’ve approved some anti-depressants. That’s a step in the right direction. However with how many antidepressants are out there and the wide range of side effects you better hope the one you need is one of the approved meds.

 

[Moonbeam]

That sounds a lot better than the way we did it back in the day. Just a bunch of fuckin morons melting into whatever's around. I will tell you this though, the more nature available, the better.

The danger is that fear can lead to a psychotic break, where the doors of perception lead into the awakening of memories for which one is totally unprepared, mistaking them for the onset of madness rather than the memories of a hell we escaped from long ago but lies hidden but triggered by the drug. Thought is associations and the greater the onset of fear, which is really the repression of feelings, the more those associations lead into the hell of the suppressed memory. When the struggle to keep the memories out of conscious awareness becomes overwhelming one either undergoes ego death or goes for some violent means to end the experience.

 

[Moonbeam]

I can say the FAA’s draconian rules on mental health have probably hurt more than they help. 20 years ago when I started as flight controller and we followed the same requirements as FAA air traffic controllers if you were depressed and sought treatment you would temporarily or permanently lose your flight certification.

While I didn’t specifically know of anybody who had significant mental health issues and was still working, when talking about this issue most folks said they would tough out or hide whatever problems they were having rather than seeking help or medication so not to lose their flight cert.

I’ll note alcohol was fine as long as you weren’t showing up to work under the influence . So I assume some folks who were having issues were self-medicating.


I’m glad they’ve approved some anti-depressants. That’s a step in the right direction. However with how many antidepressants are out there and the wide range of side effects you better hope the one you need is one of the approved meds.

All of this fear of the madness of others, I would suggest, arises out of a repressed feeling of what madness lies within each of us. Why would I trust others when I am in terror of knowing my own inner madness. Naturally we don't want people in critical positions who have no real idea what may be bothering them and fear finding out so badly they would rather kill others than know themselves. We need an educational system that stressed what is wrong with us from a early age so as to reduce the level of fear of feeling what we feel. It is quite helpful to know that we live with suppressed self hate but that we do so only because what we were told was a lie and we can prove that by reliving our past, by self confrontation and honest self exploration hopefully with encouragement from others despite the fact they will envy those who make positive progress owing to their own inferiority complexes.

 

[Leeea]

all mental health issues require professional help but what if the mental health professional is not mentally healthy

the mental health professional will not be thinking correctly

if the mental health professional is not thinking correctly he will not be able to correctly assess you

if he can't correctly assess you he won't be able to fix you.

So tell me, what is mental health? Would you not need to be mentally healthy to know if your mental health professional is, or are you just like a religious believer, and a piece of paper on a wall will do it for you?

there is 100% chance the person with the mental health issue is not able to deal with the issue themselves by definition above.


As you pointed out above, there is a non-zero possibility the mental health professional is not mentally healthy. But, considering the safe guards in place around the profession, standards of care, etc, I would argue that is the very small minority of said providers.


So, in the vast majority of the cases a person receives the help they need. Your argument is a fallacy, because it is based on extreme paranoia. The very possibility of a bad outcome is used as argument against the very high chance of obtaining a good outcome.

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Your basically making the anti-vaxer argument. Vaccine saves the lives of 100 million people, kills 3. Vaccine is bad it killed 3 people! We should not use it any more, and let disease kill 33 million people. That is natures way. Lets get closer to nature!

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The mere possibility that you might encounter a mental health professional that is not mentally healthy in a manner that will effect their ability to care for you is a sign of extreme paranoia to the point of insanity. The detached trained observer is detached by definition. A person with serious mental health issues quite frequently does not realize the extent of their disability, but it is quite frequently obvious to to even untrained people they interact with. It doesn't take a genius who has everything perfect in their life to diagnose them.

 

[Moonbeam]

there is 100% chance the person with the mental health issue is not able to deal with the issue themselves by definition above.

That would mean there is zero chance they will seek professional help simply by virtue of the fact they are not able to deal.

As you pointed out above, there is a non-zero possibility the mental health professional is not mentally healthy. But, considering the safe guards in place around the profession, standards of care, etc, I would argue that is the very small minority of said providers.

What standards prove that a physician has healed himself? I asked you what mental health is.

So, in the vast majority of the cases a person receives the help they need. Your argument is a fallacy, because it is based on extreme paranoia. The very possibility of a bad outcome is used as argument against the very high chance of obtaining a good outcome.

I am all for seeking mental help. I also believe that they only safety one can have in dealing with matters of truth is personal sincerity. I am not a believer. Proof has to have a pudding that tasted right.

Your basically making the anti-vaxer argument. Vaccine saves the lives of 100 million people, kills 3. Vaccine is bad it killed 3 people! We should not use it any more, and let disease kill 33 million people. That is natures way. Lets get closer to nature!

I note two things. You seem to have an emotional attachment to the idea that nobody can help himself and that you have a negative self image. My suspicion is that you are clinging to the notion of the effectiveness of psychotherapy, which I also support, because you have an emotional need it fills for you. I hear a need for some sort of imprimatur from personal experience in therapy to counter as yet unresolved feelings of inferiority. The hell in your own mind isn't real.

 

[Leeea]

That would mean there is zero chance they will seek professional help simply by virtue of the fact they are not able to deal.

an all to frequent occurrence.

What standards prove that a physician has healed himself? I asked you what mental health is.

why does the physician have to heal himself? More entertainingly, are you aware they practice on themselves first?

I am all for seeking mental help. I also believe that they only safety one can have in dealing with matters of truth is personal sincerity. I am not a believer. Proof has to have a pudding that tasted right.

In my experience the more truthful one is the more effective help becomes, but it is entirely optional.

For example, tell a provider you have some issues with anxiety, and they will teach you a Zen breathing technique. Effective, but perhaps you need more.

Tell them the truth about your anxiety issues, and they may give you some medication that knocks that anxiety down a few notches.


Admit to be depressed and they may hand you a medication that helps with anxiety and depression, and your life improves some more. Along with some some advice on how to avoid situations that trigger depression.


Admit to PTSD and they can hand you a medication that deals with all three, and start teaching you grounding techniques like 5 things you can see, 4 things you can hear, 3 things you can touch, 2 things you can smell, 1 thing you can taste. There are a bunch of those, that is just one example.


Admit to straight up paranoia, and get another drug that lets you admit to all of the above. The rest of the stuff about exercise and routine is just not that helpful.


But not telling the truth is still helpful, as a person will still get help, just not as much as if they told all the truth.

I note two things. You seem to have an emotional attachment to the idea that nobody can help himself and that you have a negative self image. My suspicion is that you are clinging to the notion of the effectiveness of psychotherapy, which I also support, because you have an emotional need it fills for you. I hear a need for some sort of imprimatur from personal experience in therapy to counter as yet unresolved feelings of inferiority. The hell in your own mind isn't real.

What could possibly give you that idea?

Oh, and the hell is absolutely real to me. I am delighted it is not real for you, Happy Day for you!


Yes, there are mental techniques unending to deal with it. But those all take time, energy, and discipline. That is crippling. Are you aware a normal person with just plain high functioning autism only makes it to 58? https://www.google.com/search?&q=autism+average+death+58

How far do you think I am going to make it with my comorbidities? These are mental health conditions that put so much stress on a person body they die young. Frequently in their 40s. Just burns them out physically, old age death at 40.

You say it isn't real, but a whole lot of people are living lives that are not worth living and dying rather young from something your claiming isn't real.

 

[Muse]

I don't know much about it, but I have always been told mushrooms require a guide that knows the dose, how its done, and stays with the person for the whole thing. It is not something done alone. It is just a different type of professional help. Doesn't work for everyone.

My one experience with a hallucinogen was a moderate dose of mushrooms with my GF in her apartment. It was just fine. I had offered her some but she demurred, probably a good thing.

 

[skyking]

Mushrooms are not going to show up on a standard drug screening. He may have been dabbling with them for quite a while, knowing that they were not going to show on a random test.
Compulsive behaviors manifest in many ways. I see compulsive drinkers switch to Marijuana, or religion, or going to cross fit. The compulsive disorder does not go away, just the focus of it.
I tried shrooms a few times and never did it make me want to hurt others or self-harm. He was pretty messed in the head and not from the shrooms to to what he did, repeatedly.

 

[Muse]

Here's a New York Times story concerning this.

This should get anyone beyond the paywall for 14 days from now, i.e. until Nov. 28, 2023:

‘Is This Hell?’ The Pilot Accused of Trying to Crash a Plane Tells His Story.​

Joseph Emerson, charged with attempted murder, said he felt trapped in a dream after taking mushrooms. He had feared mental health treatments that could disrupt his career.

‘Is This Hell?’ The Pilot Accused of Trying to Crash a Plane Tells His Story. (Published 2023)

Joseph Emerson, charged with attempted murder, said he felt trapped in a dream after taking mushrooms. He had feared mental health treatments that could disrupt his career.

www.nytimes.com

Edit: This is the most recommended comment...


Allie22
out westNov. 10
my 13 year relationship with a professional airline pilot eventually came to an end because, in part, of the FAA strict stance against counseling and any kind of self-help or even self-acknowledgment of a need for help. we really needed to go to couples counseling, but h refused point blank because he wouldn't take the risk of losing his livelihood. the amount of stress inherent in that job is incredible, yet pilots are allowed NOTHING to help, even things like cognitive behavioral therapy to help them better cope with that stress. so what 99% of them do is self-medicate with alcohol. it is absolutely barbaric. so many lives are damaged and so many pilots and their families are suffering because of these backward policies
27 Replies 1894 Recommend
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Uh, and another:


Carol
CaliforniaNov. 10
@Mike Baker Major airlines have an Employee Assistance Program to help people with issues like alcoholism and depression. They often involve being removed from flight duties, but allow for treatment, evaluation and return to flying. It’s too bad Mr. Emerson didn’t avail himself of that opportunity. I think it very likely that Alaska Airlines has such a program in effect.
26 Recommend

 

[Muse]

When I saw video of him being brought into court (I think initially), to me he looked, in a word, twitchy.

 

[Moonbeam]

When I saw video of him being brought into court (I think initially), to me he looked, in a word, twitchy.

Perhaps someone dealing with the realization that something he never imagined and perhaps still does not had memories he feared entering conscious awareness had threatened to erupted into conscious memory anyway against volcanic pressures like a solidified caldera plug. Have you ever seen someone in the throws of a psychotic break? Fear is the suppression of feeling by thought and as the terror grows so does associative thought, the paranoid thinking like you can't awake from a dream as one possibility.

His taking mushrooms reminded me of a story about the farmer who slept in his barn that a lion has chosen to sleep in for the night, and who thought to himself that the farmer would not be sleeping so peacefully did he know I am here. Think I have mentioned this story before maybe perhaps recently. The pilot via mushrooms poked his nose around the barn.

Had he but known that what he would find there was his own self hate the result of undeserved abuse as a child, he might have not dove off the deep end. He like all of us is the victim of avoidance our society engages in never to look at mental illness for what it really is. We are the causes of most of the misery in the world, you and I and every other who fears what is within.

 

[hal2kilo]

That sounds a lot better than the way we did it back in the day. Just a bunch of fuckin morons melting into whatever's around. I will tell you this though, the more nature available, the better.

The first few times it's definitely helpful to have someone who has had the experience with psychedelics. I really don't like the guide idea. Sounds too much like "thought leader" to me.