The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

[nickqt]

What job do you do where you leave your family for a year at a time? What job do you do where you run into a blazing building to rescue someone else? What job do you do where you run the risk of getting shot in the face by someone else?

Oh, you work in an office? 9 to 5? Nice. Now shut the fuck up.

The rabble should be happy that they aren't kicked face-first into the street for not performing particular roles. Screw 'em.

 

[xaeniac]

These are not men you speak of. They are lazy bums that won't get off their butts. Its the system and lack of parenting that has enabled them to do this. Probably offended a few people in ATOT.

 

[brianmanahan]

i suspect that people who call for government-provided Basic Income do so because they want to make never working a viable lifestyle choice

 

[Subyman]

Using the labor data specifically for southern Illinois, the hourly mean wage for general construction labor is $20.83. The same in that area for drywall workers is $29.61, which is higher than the statewide average. This is from data that was current as of May 2013 (which is the latest on their site).

It does sound like you pay per job rather than per hour, much like the guys do here. You can argue as to how many hours you think it would take to do a job but as long as the pay is by the job, it's not by the hour. What they make per hour is dependent on how many hours it takes them since it's a set job price, not an hourly wage that you are paying them. It still sounds like you are offering less than the average for your area, which may affect the number and quality of workers that you are able to attract. Other areas in your state (and surrounding states) offer better pay and you may be seeing the drain on good workers in your area due to that influence.

It's like any other job out there; the more the pay is the larger the number and quality of applicants there are to choose from. People who pay well get to be picky about who they hire. The less you pay the smaller the number and quality of applicants there are for that work.

I understand all that, but where did you get your data? I looked for my area but couldn't find anything close. Do you have a link?

 

[HeXen]

If I stopped working I'd lose my house for sure. If I lost my job, unemployment is only 9 weeks ATM.
Welfare only helps so much but you practically have to live in the ghetto to make it so you can just lay around all day. If a job doesn't pay halfway decent then you are better off to stay on welfare or you just lose benefits plus have to work a pathetic job likely to hate.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

And the people who own and operate this country love 'em for it. They consider them the useful idiots that they are in private, but man do they talk em' up real good on the TV and Radio machines!

There's a term to describe these useful idiots. It's "Joe the Plumber".

 

[Exophase]

If jobs are just as plentiful, have the same productivity expectations and pay the same relative to cost of living (usually enough to support a whole family off one job) like in the 60's then there's no reason people today shouldn't be just as employed. It's not as though companies are expecting people to fill the roles of what originally had two people a decade ago doing them and that now there is a shortfall of some kind for our expanding population. Must just all be lazy.

You're overlooking something here. The figure Svnla gave is the percentage of men who are unemployed. If you change the percentage to people of both genders instead you will almost certainly find that the employment rate is higher than it was in 1960, because so many more women are employed today than they were then.

The graph here only lists women who are sole/primary providers, but that should be enough to get an idea:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/29/breadwinner-moms/

 

[vi edit]

I'd really like to see how the rate of working women has changed over that same period of time. I am guessing the rate of women working has grown far faster than the rate of men not working.

The article also hits on the fact that older people are not retiring as much as in the past, at least in part due to the death of pensions. But these people are taking up slots for younger men to fill.

So lets respin this thread to be about the massive increase in women workers and the working elderly and we can show how much less lazy America is than in 1960.

Too much logic for this thread.

It's not just the amount of women working, but also the salaries that they are able to bring in. I know several stay at home Dads. One wife is a Nurse Anesthetist and makes 150k+ a year and they live in Iowa. They have three kids under 6. He stays at home with them since there's zero to gain over daycare bills, sick time, and various scheduling conflicts (his wife is on call every other week). Another has a wife that is a pharmacist making $130+ a year. Another has a wife that is a neurologist making I have no idea what...but a lot. Another has a wife that is an ED physician. These guys stay home and do the traditional "stay at home mom roles".

My wife also fits into that "high earner" category but I make enough to justify the daycare costs plus other financial benefits provided by employer. If I had trouble finding a job we'd have cut back on the type of house we bought and I would have stayed at home being another one of those lazy unentitled welfare scammers.

These types of households did not exist 50 years ago. Or at least not anywhere near the frequency that they do now.

 

[notposting]

I stay at home and neff and game like there's no tomorrow!

 

[piasabird]

Every time I see an article about how good the unemployment numbers are I just laugh. This data makes the unemployment numbers kind of irrelevant. So why do we even report the unemployment numbers and why aren't we rounding up all the illegals and deporting them? Why do we even allow people to cross the border. Just shoot first and ask questions later along the new southern border DMZ.

Imagines a 20 foot wide 20 foot deep trench with lions in it.

 

[piasabird]

Sounds like a future crime wave.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I'm not losing guys to other jobs. I'm losing them because they get their check and don't come back until they've spent all the money. I won't see them after paying them on Friday for several days. Hard to schedule around dudes that don't like to show up consistently.

The problem you have is that your workers are treating you exactly like you treat your workers, and you think that is unfair. You want them there when you need a job done, but as soon as it is over you want them to go away until you have another job. They want to work until they have made enough money but then want to not work until they need money again.

If want reliable people to work for you then you need to be a reliable employer.

 

[Subyman]

The problem you have is that your workers are treating you exactly like you treat your workers, and you think that is unfair. You want them there when you need a job done, but as soon as it is over you want them to go away until you have another job. They want to work until they have made enough money but then want to not work until they need money again.

If want reliable people to work for you then you need to be a reliable employer.

Assumptions. I have plenty of work for my guys.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Assumptions. I have plenty of work for my guys.

What is it you do exactly?

 

[Subyman]

What is it you do exactly?

Renovate homes.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Renovate homes.

Ah
What skills do you bring to the job?

Your not going to find steady guys to do your demo and cleanup for 10 buck an hr, all your going to get is peeps in between welfare checks looking for some booze money.
Why don't you just get your 17 an hr guys to do it, they can do that while your real carpenters work

 

[Subyman]

Ah
What skills do you bring to the job?

Your not going to find steady guys to do your demo and cleanup for 10 buck an hr, all your going to get is peeps in between welfare checks looking for some booze money.
Why don't you just get your 17 an hr guys to do it, they can do that while your real carpenters work

Depends, its not usually the 10/hr guys I worry about, they are a dime a dozen. I don't really expect consistent work from people making near minimum wage. General guys that do stuff like set a toilet, rough in a window, set a bath tub, reframe rotten wood, etc have started at 17 an hour. Trades get more, about 25-30+. I've been using subcontractors to do some of the work while getting my own crew together. I'm beginning to think its not worth the headache and just keep working with contractors to get the job done. Then I wouldn't have to worry about employer requirements and such.

My main point with my first post is that it is not age dependent. From my experience, age hasn't been a factor at all regarding work consistency or ethic.

As for my skills, I tend to enjoy the finish work the most such as built-ins, trim, coffered ceilings, crown, etc. I do a bit of everything though. You have to be familiar with everything to manage the build, but I tend toward carpentry the most. Don't care to do plumbing or electrical. Exterior work is okay.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Depends, its not usually the 10/hr guys I worry about, they are a dime a dozen. I don't really expect consistent work from people making near minimum wage. General guys that do stuff like set a toilet, rough in a window, set a bath tub, reframe rotten wood, etc have started at 17 an hour. Trades get more, about 25-30+. I've been using subcontractors to do some of the work while getting my own crew together. I'm beginning to think its not worth the headache and just keep working with contractors to get the job done. Then I wouldn't have to worry about employer requirements and such.

My main point with my first post is that it is not age dependent. From my experience, age hasn't been a factor at all regarding work consistency or ethic.

As for my skills, I tend to enjoy the finish work the most such as built-ins, trim, coffered ceilings, crown, etc. I do a bit of everything though. You have to be familiar with everything to manage the build, but I tend toward carpentry the most. Don't care to do plumbing or electrical. Exterior work is okay.

I suppose just doing home renos you could pretty much just get away with your 17/hr guys for everything. Even the easier finish work. People enjoy seeing an employer getting into the dirty work along with them. If I were you, I'd do the demo work myself and toss your guys some of the easy work you were doing. That might help with your employment problem

 

[Subyman]

I suppose just doing home renos you could pretty much just get away with your 17/hr guys for everything. Even the easier finish work. People enjoy seeing an employer getting into the dirty work along with them. If I were you, I'd do the demo work myself and toss your guys some of the easy work you were doing. That might help with your employment problem

Oh believe me, I'm usually the one working hardest. Gotta get those projects done. I only get my paycheck when the job's finished. Just tore out a bunch of drywall today