The Religion of Selflessness, Empathy, and Courage.

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Countless horrific acts have been done in the name of Jesus, down unto today. Just ask the doctors and nurses murdered for being pro-choice.

One has only to leaf through the Old Testament of the Bible to see the many injunctions to kill or enslave human beings for what seem to the sane and civilized to be trivial acts.

The same is true in the Quran. Wholesale demonization of the entire religion of Islam and its adherents is wrong, ignorant, and most important, not in our own self interest.

This article helps explain why.

The selfless service of Capt. Khan, who was reportedly a devout Muslim, may also have been directly inspired by his faith. There’s good reason to believe that Islam was an essential, rather than incidental, aspect of his heroism.

A prevailing recent narrative about Islam in the United States and abroad is that it is a “religion of violence.” Extremist Muslims have inarguably been responsible for perpetrating many horrific mass killings over the past two decades. And terrorists have exploited certain Quranic verses to try to justify their heinous crimes.

[...]

But history demonstrates that Islamic teaching and practice offer their adherents laudable resources to encourage extraordinary selflessness, empathy, and courage. When odious crimes against humanity have taken place, Muslims have often drawn on their faith to rescue people of other religions, including Christians and Jews.When odious crimes against humanity have taken place, Muslims have often drawn on their faith to rescue people of other religions, including Christians and Jews.

Consider Abd el-Kader, a devout Muslim leader who saved thousands of Christians in Damascus in 1860 from marauding murderers. He explained his conduct as following an Islamic duty to protect innocents; indeed, the Quran states that “to save a life would be as great a virtue as to save all of mankind.” Kader’s efforts were so admired that Abraham Lincoln sent him a gift of Colt pistols and a town in Iowa was named after him. The New York Times wrote at the time that Kader “deserves to be ranked among the foremost of the few great men of the [19th] century.”

Although some Muslims, such as the grand mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, conspired with Nazis during the Holocaust, other Muslims in Albania, Bosnia, Germany, the former Soviet Union, and Turkey, in fact, saved Jews. Israel’s Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial has officially recognized more than 70 Muslims as “Righteous Among the Nations” — non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews during that genocide. For example, in Albania (Europe’s only Muslim-majority country at the time), almost all of the approximately 200 indigenous Jews and 1,800 Jewish refugees survived. An Albanian code of honor, “besa,” compelled all residents to safeguard those in need. This code was based on Islamic tenets characterizing as blessed conduct the saving of a life. The son of an Albanian man recognized by Yad Vashem as “Righteous Among the Nations” explained that his father sheltered four Jewish families because as “devout Muslims we extended our protection and humanism to the Jews. Why? Besa, friendship and the holy Koran.” Even Albert Einstein benefited from Albanian assistance in his emigration from Europe to the United States.

Some Muslims heroically rescued Tutsis — Muslims and non-Muslims alike — during the 1994 genocide in Rwanda and, as in Damascus and Albania, attributed such conduct to their religious principles. Muslims hid Tutsis in, among other places, their mosques, which proved much safer than churches. Yahya Msengiyuma, for one, saved as many as 50 Tutsis. Far from the way the term has typically been used and understood since 9/11, “jihad,” or holy struggle, has been employed by some Muslim leaders in Rwanda to refer to “our war against ignorance between Hutu and Tutsi. It is our struggle to heal.” In the years immediately following the genocide, thousands of appreciative Rwandans converted to Islam, doubling the number of such religious adherents in the country. “If it weren’t for the Muslims, my whole family would be dead,” said Aisha Uwimbabazi, one such grateful convert.

The list of Muslim heroes goes on and on. Just this past December, al-Shabab militants, who have a history of killing non-Muslims, stormed a bus in Kenya. When ordered to separate by religion, the Muslim passengers refused, gave the Christian women hijabs to wear, and helped others hide behind luggage. The gunmen left; the mass killing of Christians was thwarted. A Kenyan cabinet secretary praised the Muslim passengers for their display of religious unity, saying, “This is a very good message from my brothers and sisters from the Muslim community.” And last month, in a restaurant in Bangladesh, Faraz Hossain, a Bangladeshi Muslim studying at Emory University, was among the casualties when armed militants invaded. Seeking to kill foreigners, the militants had given Hossain the opportunity to leave unharmed. He refused to abandon his two female friends who were clad in Western attire and who identified themselves as hailing from India and the United States.

These Muslim men and women all sought to protect others at great risk to themselves, their families, and their communities — not in spite of, but often inspired by their faith. At a time when Western leaders seek to enlist Muslims in their fight against violent extremists, a campaign that builds momentum around this protective instinct in Islam would support ongoing efforts of “moderate Muslims” to condemn and combat the radicals in their midst.

[...]

Policymakers, if they hope to be effective, must understand that people are more complicated than the stereotypes about the groups to which they belong. Indeed, if anything, officials ought to go out of their way to highlight instances of courageous conduct by devout Muslims. That would not only provide a more complete record of history; it could also motivate other individuals — including, but not limited to, their religious compatriots — to follow the example set in times of crisis by these heroic Muslims.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Wow, religions with hundreds of millions of followers aren't monolithic and completely represented by their most fringe elements? Who'd have thunk it?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,065
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Wow, religions with hundreds of millions of followers aren't monolithic and completely represented by their most fringe elements? Who'd have thunk it?

Not some around here. It will be interesting to see how this thread goes.
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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I'm neither sufficiently arrogant, or smug enough, to ever call myself an Atheist.

Do you think I'm virtue signalling right now?

Have you ever considered the possibility that we're nothing more than a lab experiment, conducted by entities that exist upon a plane of existence that we can only ever poke our Sporks at within an imaginary context, Ever?
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,908
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But they make for such a compelling distraction when things are going to shit domestically and it's an election year. :(
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
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how does my prosperity gospel fit into this? I pray to god and I get rich. Thats how religion is supposed to work.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
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I'm neither sufficiently arrogant, or smug enough, to ever call myself an Atheist.

Do you think I'm virtue signalling right now?

Have you ever considered the possibility that we're nothing more than a lab experiment, conducted by entities that exist upon a plane of existence that we can only ever poke our Sporks at within an imaginary context, Ever?

It is neither smug nor arrogant to be an atheist, though it is not an uncommon attitude among atheists. I'm an atheist simply because nothing I've seen, read, experienced has shown me there is any sort of divine existence. As I've said, I don't believe in things, I question and try to find proof. I've found a complete absence of proof of any gods, so I'm an atheist.
 

AnonymouseUser

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May 14, 2003
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Ah yes, policymakers must whitewash moslem crimes and acts of terror in order to convince people to allow the importation of barbarians into their countries. How about they stay in the countries they've turned to shit, and we'll stay in our countries that respect women and don't suicide bomb each other.

As for the Old Testament, that is for the Jews. Christians follow the New Testament where Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament promise of a messiah.

When it comes to Christianity and the Old Testament, one should know that most of the laws and rules of the Old Testament do not apply to Christians because of how the faith developed. For instance, in considering stoning, Christians will be familiar with the story of Christ and the woman accused of adultery.

Here we find the crux of Christianity, it is about obeying God’s laws, but it is also about forgiveness and changed lives.

As for the Old Testament, Christians were officially freed of many Old Testament obligations. The historical record affirms this tradition. A good example from the first century of Christianity took place at the Council of Jerusalem.

<snip>

That is just one of many examples showing why Christians do not act upon many Old Testament laws. It is either intellectually dishonest or ignorant to claim otherwise.

And I would bet that all of the deaths from terrorist acts committed in the name of Christianity over the last 50 years wouldn't equal the deaths from terrorist acts committed in the name of islam over the last 1 year.

Finally, as an Atheist, I don't appreciate having to defend Christianity yet again, but as long as disinformation is being spread about Christianity in defense of islam then I will.
 

MajinCry

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2015
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Jesus isn't the fulfillment of the OT, it's made quite clear the conditions have to be met in Jeremiah 31:31-34, before the OT can be made invalid. And those conditions will never be met; it's literally impossible.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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As for the Old Testament, that is for the Jews.

Wrong.

The Christian Bible consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. I won't argue this further with you; I'll just cite the most anodyne and extensively curated of sources for this obvious truth, Wiki:

The Old Testament is the first section of the Christian Bible, based primarily upon the Hebrew Bible, a collection of religious writings by ancient Israelites[1] believed by most Christians and Jews to be the sacred Word of God.[2] It is the counterpart to the New Testament, the second portion of the Christian Bible.
 

AnonymouseUser

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May 14, 2003
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Wrong.

The Christian Bible consists of both the Old Testament and the New Testament. I won't argue this further with you; I'll just cite the most anodyne and extensively curated of sources for this obvious truth, Wiki:

Christians do not follow the teachings of the Old Testament. It is for reference only. They follow the teachings of Jesus who taught forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Jesus was not a warmonger like muhammed, the child rapist.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Jesus was not a warmonger like muhammed...

Nor a bigoted hater, like you. You, and others like you, are the best friends of ISIS in the West . . . useful idiots of ignorant intolerance whose mirror-image hate helps them further their goal of permanent "religious" war.

Trump 2016! Our foreign policy motto, "Why can't we use nuclear weapons?"
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
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Christians do not follow the teachings of the Old Testament. It is for reference only. They follow the teachings of Jesus who taught forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Jesus was not a warmonger like muhammed, the child rapist.

How is the irony of your post lost on you? That is unless you're also claiming to not be a Christian. Because you claim that Christians turn the other cheek and then immediately attack the prophet of another religion. Which is pretty much the opposite of turning the other cheek. I learned long ago that what Jesus taught and what Christians follow are pretty diametrically opposed.
 

interchange

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Oct 10, 1999
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I believe that the intent of this thread is to denounce a stereotyped, unambiguous view of one religion (Islam) by instead pointing to the diversity of the individuals practicing within its scope.

It seems to have turned into diverse individuals who practice within the scope of another religion (Christianity) fighting over which stereotyped, unambiguous view is correct.

Perhaps the religion only provides the framework for the virtues or failings of an individual to be expressed.
 
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PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
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how does my prosperity gospel fit into this? I pray to god and I get rich. Thats how religion is supposed to work.



Prayer is not enough...you must worship through a pledge to really get god's attention and true wealth!

feb0038ef904f99931de32d97a4fe95f.png
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
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I believe that the intent of this thread is to denounce a stereotyped, unambiguous view of one religion (Islam) by instead pointing to the diversity of the individuals practicing within its scope.

That's why it's shitty.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
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Christians do not follow the teachings of the Old Testament. It is for reference only. They follow the teachings of Jesus who taught forgiveness and turning the other cheek. Jesus was not a warmonger like muhammed, the child rapist.

If the Old Testament is for reference only, then why did Jesus need to be born of a virgin to die for our sins? That whole original sin part is just for reference, right?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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I believe that the intent of this thread is to denounce a stereotyped, unambiguous view of one religion (Islam) by instead pointing to the diversity of the individuals practicing within its scope.

It seems to have turned into diverse individuals who practice within the scope of another religion (Christianity) fighting over which stereotyped, unambiguous view is correct.

Perhaps the religion only provides the framework for the virtues or failings of an individual to be expressed.

When I was young I never had a teacher who knew much of anything so my contact with Christianity was by chance as far as I can see. I learned two things, to admire the selflessness it takes to turn the other cheek, as recommended by Christ's sacrifice, and self loathing for falling so short of that myself. So for me at least, religion can be more than a framework. It can also be a latter. I learned longing for love via the ideal of His expression of it. a longing denied me via my own worthlessness and lack of achievement. But there was always that longing, that oh so painful longing.

My personal understanding is that Moses brought a law to aspire to live by, that Jesus brought forgiveness, that adherence to law is not enough, and that Mohammad brought a resolution of opposites, that forbearance has its limits, that when evil manifests it is to be put back in its place with forgiveness that requires a contract for that forgiveness, contrition and a promise not to act out again.

Naturally, everything gets fucked up because people who do not know what the good really is still think that they do.
 

DrunkenSano

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Aug 8, 2008
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I am sure most people know that bad apples always make the headlines, extremists are always in the forefront of the news and gives the religion they represent a bad name, in this case Islam. However, the solution to this problem does not start from the outside, telling people that the religion is fine and no problem. You can't sweep those types of problems under a rug and say that it is a very minor few that ruins it for everyone.

The solution has to start from within the religion if they wish to fix the perspective that uninformed people have. Muslims needs to police themselves and rid themselves of the extremists as well as those that practice the heinous acts that paints their religion in a bad color. Only then will outside perception change and the focus needs to remain there. If there are bad apples within your religion and you know about them, report them, get them arrested. Muslims need to police their own and rid themselves of the evil that is ruining their religion.
 

retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
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I learned long ago that what Jesus taught and what Christians follow are pretty diametrically opposed.

Exactly, and AnonymouseUser is a perfect example of that... Who would Jesus condemn based on the acts of different people that looked similar?

To use the horrific acts of a small # of extremists and apply it to the whole group (whether race, religion, or any other grouping) is ridiculous. If we have a problem with Muslims because of the acts of a few nutjobs, then we have to have a problem with Christians, because of Nazis and the KKK, we have to have a problem with whites because of Stalin, we have to have a problem with Atheists because of Mao, we have to have a problem with blacks because of Idi Amin, we have to have a problem with Asians because of Pol Pot, and we have to have a problem with Latinos because of Castro. This list could go on and on. Get the point? You go after the act and the people that actually committed the act, not ALL people that look similar to the people that committed the act.

Muslim extremists are to Islam as the KKK and Nazis are to Christianity. - The ignorant, violent minority.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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When I was young I never had a teacher who knew much of anything so my contact with Christianity was by chance as far as I can see. I learned two things, to admire the selflessness it takes to turn the other cheek, as recommended by Christ's sacrifice, and self loathing for falling so short of that myself. So for me at least, religion can be more than a framework. It can also be a latter. I learned longing for love via the ideal of His expression of it. a longing denied me via my own worthlessness and lack of achievement. But there was always that longing, that oh so painful longing.

Thanks for this story. I may have been blinded by everyone's quest for an identity to project to the world that I had ignored the possibility of a genuine quest for an identity to aspire to as an individual.

It is not so easy for me. I had so rarely questioned the me that I ought to be. Such a thing was not uncertain for me. Instead I learned to distrust any view of this that was not my own, or at least that was not my mother's which I interpreted as a secret between me and her.

Since I can relate to your story, clearly there is more to this concept for me. It is exciting. The original paradigm feels so absolute that I tire of working from within the conflicts that it presents.