The reason for America's downturn:

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Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I don't look at the news much, but whenever I do there seem to be more and more stories about how society is getting worse. More crime, worse crimes, people not taking 2 seconds to help another person out. Basically a very dramatic downturn in society. I spent a good while thinking about this yesterday and I believer I understand why:

Well here's your first problem: watching the news. Your second problem is that your assumption is wrong. Crime has by and large gone down over the last 20-25 years. So in reality, you're simply getting old. Old people get cranky about the state of the world. Old people see history through rose tinted glasses. Old people remember how good it was and not how bad it was.

The rest of your post is therefore immaterial.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
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Well here's your first problem: watching the news. Your second problem is that your assumption is wrong. Crime has by and large gone down over the last 20-25 years. So in reality, you're simply getting old. Old people get cranky about the state of the world. Old people see history through rose tinted glasses. Old people remember how good it was and not how bad it was.

The rest of your post is therefore immaterial.

How do we know crime is really getting lower?

The police departments use all sorts of manipulation and fancy language so we don't really know. Plus, now with new software, it's more difficult. For instance, there was a story on NPR recently about how the NYPD was running over optimistic crime figures due to the software they were using.

So, we don't really know. However, I would say that the human mind is still violent, greedy, selfish and fearful. It has not changed even though it has become more sophisticated due to education and whatnot.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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How do we know crime is really getting lower?

The police departments use all sorts of manipulation and fancy language so we don't really know. Plus, now with new software, it's more difficult. For instance, there was a story on NPR recently about how the NYPD was running over optimistic crime figures due to the software they were using.

So, we don't really know. However, I would say that the human mind is still violent, greedy, selfish and fearful. It has not changed even though it has become more sophisticated due to education and whatnot.
Man, things were looking so good through his rose colored glasses and you went and fogged them up.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,530
33,254
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How do we know crime is really getting lower?

The police departments use all sorts of manipulation and fancy language so we don't really know. Plus, now with new software, it's more difficult. For instance, there was a story on NPR recently about how the NYPD was running over optimistic crime figures due to the software they were using.

So, we don't really know. However, I would say that the human mind is still violent, greedy, selfish and fearful. It has not changed even though it has become more sophisticated due to education and whatnot.
It is in every precinct's best interest to over report crime since it would justify bigger budgets.

Man, things were looking so good through his rose colored glasses and you went and fogged them up.
Keep on derpin' on.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
14
81
How do we know crime is really getting lower?

The police departments use all sorts of manipulation and fancy language so we don't really know. Plus, now with new software, it's more difficult. For instance, there was a story on NPR recently about how the NYPD was running over optimistic crime figures due to the software they were using.

So, we don't really know. However, I would say that the human mind is still violent, greedy, selfish and fearful. It has not changed even though it has become more sophisticated due to education and whatnot.

Barring a study to show a change in how crime statistics are reported or recorded versus time, I could simply counter by saying that crime statistics could always have been underreported. Therefore the absolute values may be different but the trend is the same. The line is simply shifted up or down. The motivation to deflate, or inflate, crime statistics probably hasn't changed.

On the other hand, there are many, many crime studies performed by many, many different people that show a general trend of decreasing crime. Rates of specific individual crimes may be up, but overall it's down. So there's really little reason to consider your point.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
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Reasons for America's decline and eventual collapse:
-79 percent of Americans do not know what a fraction is

...
Well, thank you....that's depressing.
My supervisor sometimes talks about how his son is learning math. He is not permitted to solve problems his own way, if he finds a simpler or more efficient way. He is to simply proceed through them, step by step, in the manner he was taught. No deviation from procedure, or you lose points.
Fortunately, he receives better additional education at home on the subject.


It's probably why you have people saying things like, "Of course the Universe was designed by God! Why else would math always agree so perfectly with the way the world is?"

They're of course working backwards.
Math is a language used to describe the way the Universe works, down to its most basic attributes. So of course it's going to agree with reality - it's based on reality. It's simply a logical method we use in order to describe what we see.



It's funny (not really) how we put guns and gods together - like they're a perfect couple. We don't know anything about god and yet we are projecting our ideas onto him?
Sometimes you "...learn humility."
"You accepted what God gave you and didn't expect more."

But sometimes you just gotta cap a bitch.
 
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OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
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The government can only provide the best education it can that will work for the most people. No one solution will work for everyone. It is up to the teachers, and more importantly the parents, to recognize when the normal education process isn't going to work for an individual child. Then it is the responsibility of the parents to find an alternate solution.

But I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about the complete saturation of anti-intellectualism that is beginning to take its toll. Even you understand the importance of a constant thirst for knowledge.

I've had both public and private education. Public education is terrible.

My supervisor sometimes talks about how his son is learning math. He is not permitted to solve problems his own way, if he finds a simpler or more efficient way. He is to simply proceed through them, step by step, in the manner he was taught. No deviation from procedure, or you lose points.

Sounds like public school, going there actually makes you dumber, no joke.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,530
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I've had both public and private education. Public education is terrible.



Sounds like public school, going there actually makes you dumber, no joke.
You are only going to get out of education what you want to get out of it, no matter where it is. The main reason private education is better than public is because most of the parents who put their kids in private school give a shit about their kids' educations. This means there are less classmates that have been taught to spurn education from a young age. That factor alone can lead to much worse results even with all else being equal.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,591
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The main reason private education is better than public is because most of the parents who put their kids in private school give a shit about their kids' educations. This means there are less classmates that have been taught to spurn education from a young age. That factor alone can lead to much worse results even with all else being equal.

:thumbsup: Plus private schools don't have to take every child like the public schools do. They get to be selective about candidates, whether they offer special needs accommodations and often have much stricter school policies
 
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Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
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:thumbsup: Plus private schools don't have to take every child like the public schools do. They get to be selective about candidates, whether they offer special needs accommodations and often have more stricter school policies

100% correct. The 'No Child Left Behind' has become 'All Children Held Behind' where the 'needs' of the few outweigh the 'needs' of the many.

Of course, the 'needs' of the few are essentially a baby sitting service for the parents.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,048
10,377
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If we want this country to get back on track, it is my humble opinion that we need to focus on God, guns and humility. If we accept that not everyone believes in the same thing, accept that guns do much more good than harm (and start teaching our kids how to safely use them again) and go back to teaching our children humility, we have a shot at this.

Americans were once wild, feral animals who would never be caged. Well we've had generations of the cage being closed in around us. "God and Guns" are a symptom to illustrate the disease, do not confuse either for being the disease.

So what ails us? Society. Government and comfortable living. We've grown fat, lazy, and indifferent towards our fellow man. There are so many of us, who cares about one more person, about each other? They are competitors to take my government handouts - nothing more than a threat against my survival in this cage we share.

Gone are the days of a difficult life where you were dependent on the people next to you. Your neighbors were your life, a strong communion. Today it is your government. The neighborly bonds have been severed and instead of our natural instincts, instead of depending on one another we freely seek to dispose of one another.

Tribalism was a curse, but instead of shedding ourselves from it - we've merely adapted such instincts to fit our cage. These days each man stands an island. We have destroyed ourselves by usurping the brotherly bonds that made us great.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
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You are only going to get out of education what you want to get out of it, no matter where it is. The main reason private education is better than public is because most of the parents who put their kids in private school give a shit about their kids' educations. This means there are less classmates that have been taught to spurn education from a young age. That factor alone can lead to much worse results even with all else being equal.
And they've got the $$$ to pay for it.




...
Sounds like public school, going there actually makes you dumber, no joke.
Yup, public school.


And I've never been in or near a private school, so I've got no reference point myself. (Take that as you will. :p)
I was plopped into the gifted program sometime in elementary school. Upon later reflection, that was more like, "We don't know what to do with you, so go here to this room instead." But, it was nice to occasionally get out of class for it, and not have to be bored to death for.....well, various reasons.




Americans were once wild, feral animals who would never be caged. Well we've had generations of the cage being closed in around us. "God and Guns" are a symptom to illustrate the disease, do not confuse either for being the disease.

So what ails us? Society. Government and comfortable living. We've grown fat, lazy, and indifferent towards our fellow man. There are so many of us, who cares about one more person, about each other? They are competitors to take my government handouts - nothing more than a threat against my survival in this cage we share.

Gone are the days of a difficult life where you were dependent on the people next to you. Your neighbors were your life, a strong communion. Today it is your government. The neighborly bonds have been severed and instead of our natural instincts, instead of depending on one another we freely seek to dispose of one another.
It's all a spectrum, at least as far as "fat and lazy" goes. I've never had to run down an animal and kill it with little more than some spears or poisoned darts, and then skin and gut it with some sharp rocks.
We're domesticated primates now, though many of us stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that ancestry.
And unfortunately, our instincts didn't anticipate an environment like this. You do indeed still have many ancient tendencies and behaviors present. In times long past, hoarding resources could likely be what allowed you to live at all. Now, there's food everywhere, at least in the first world. Go to a grocery store. Thousands of square feet of food that's just sitting there, much of it capable of being stored for months or years without degradation. Clean water comes out of pipes with a simple touch of a knob. Strong shelters also afford us light, even at night.
Our instincts would call this a utopian paradise, if they could make sense of it. But they're still geared to assume that death is waiting around the next dark corner.



Tribalism was a curse, but instead of shedding ourselves from it - we've merely adapted such instincts to fit our cage. These days each man stands an island. We have destroyed ourselves by usurping the brotherly bonds that made us great.
"United we stand."
It turns out that the usage of "we" in that statement is in an extremely exclusive sense.
 
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OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
You are only going to get out of education what you want to get out of it, no matter where it is. The main reason private education is better than public is because most of the parents who put their kids in private school give a shit about their kids' educations. This means there are less classmates that have been taught to spurn education from a young age. That factor alone can lead to much worse results even with all else being equal.
I disagree this really isn't how privilege works. No matter how hard you work in state college X you aren't going to match a kid with straight C's in Harvard. George Bush seemed to do okay for himself :p
 
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