The real rich go uncounted in most income distribution reports.

[Zebo]

And you thought you were "rich" at a measly 100K

the Census Bureau in Washington D.C. revealed that for years the bureau never interviewed anyone who had an income higher than $300,000. Or if interviewed, they were never recorded as above the "reportable upper limit" of $300,000, the top figure allowed by the bureau's computer program

 

[Michael]

Most of the studies of "rich" that I read are based on IRS data, not census data.

Michael

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Michael
Most of the studies of "rich" that I read are based on IRS data, not census data.

Michael

Yeah, but Michael, the rich are intending to mis inform the IRS of their income so your data is inaccurate to the extent they do.

Census asks income level and most people with egos overstate it so that data is faulty as well...

 

[Zebo]

One issue at a time.

The IRS fiqures are only counted for those who actually file taxes, ex-patriots don't. There are plenty of "rich" who arnt even us citzens but still make thier monies from capital gains here and arn't required to pay US taxes on those gains. I have a serious "fairness" problem with this. ???

Efforts to discourage companies from moving offshore to escape U.S. taxes failed last year, but the lawmakers said it was a matter of fairness to individuals and other companies that will have to make up for the loss of revenue at a time of increased need for national security and possible war with Iraq.

 

[LunarRay]

Carb, Your link was my backup to my statement.... boo hoo... now I gotta find something else to use if challenged.

 

[KenGr]

I read this article - a couple of times - trying to figure out what the point was. I finally decided it had no point. So census figures are hokey. So what? We don't use the census figures when we look at income, we use the IRS figures. With the exception of tax evasion, that doesn't miss anything.

Maybe that keeps us from having a good handle on just how "rich" some people are from a property standpoint, but I thought the whole issue was "income". Or are we going to revive Clinton's trial balloon on "wealth taxing" instead of income taxing?

You are completely off base on expatriates (not ex-patriots) not filing taxes. Some do not and get away with for some period of time but that is only because their income is so low and their foreign taxes so high that they owe no US taxes. Those with significant income must file due to the Alternative Minimum Tax law or be outside the law. And the IRS is very good at spotting those people since it is very hard to hide if you have any US income. I know this because I am an expatriate and I pay lots of taxes to two countries each year.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: KenGr
I read this article - a couple of times - trying to figure out what the point was. I finally decided it had no point. So census figures are hokey. So what? We don't use the census figures when we look at income, we use the IRS figures. With the exception of tax evasion, that doesn't miss anything.

Maybe that keeps us from having a good handle on just how "rich" some people are from a property standpoint, but I thought the whole issue was "income". Or are we going to revive Clinton's trial balloon on "wealth taxing" instead of income taxing?

You are completely off base on expatriates (not ex-patriots) not filing taxes. Some do not and get away with for some period of time but that is only because their income is so low and their foreign taxes so high that they owe no US taxes. Those with significant income must file due to the Alternative Minimum Tax law or be outside the law. And the IRS is very good at spotting those people since it is very hard to hide if you have any US income. I know this because I am an expatriate and I pay lots of taxes to two countries each year.

Show me the law that says non-us citizens must pay taxes on capital gains and stock dividends made in the US. For as long as I can remember foriegners paid no taxes on such income to the US because it encouraged investment here.

Ex-patriots same as a foriegner at some point. Not sure when but it does'nt seem to matter from the article I linked from Forbes. It's not being enforced.

 

[KenGr]

I still can't get what you are saying. American Expatriates are US citizens living outside the US. They owe US taxes on US based income. On foreign income, they owe taxes on income above about 80K per year to the extent it is not offset by foreign taxes paid. Regardless of foreign taxes paid they owe a certain amount. If a US citizen living overseas does not file a tax return, the IRS often does not immediately catch up with him. When he does return, they do. My understanding as an expatriate is that most non-payers are lower income (for example students or teachers) and end up owing no tax.

People who are not US citizens and do not live or work in the US (but may own US investments) pay their personal income taxes to the country they live in. What is wrong with that? I have investments all over the world and pay income taxes to the US on them.

 

[Zebo]

Ken I'm talking about those who give up thier citzenship and get a Red passport with the white cross or get Burmuda citizenship. an ex-patriot is one who gives up allegiance to one's homeland. You are still a citizen, of course you must pay. They no longer do (well there is al law if the IRS belives you renounced your citizenship for tax purposes they can make you pay for 12 years I think, however as the link shows it's not even enforced) as foriegners.

 

[KenGr]

OK, I see what you are saying but I don't think it's a big issue from an individual standpoint. Most countries assess higher income taxes (on large incomes) than the US. And anyone who wants to change citizenship can whether for tax purposes or ideology or whatever. They have that right. I can remember a few major issues about Europeans who took up residence/citizenship in the US to avoid high taxes.


As far as corporations go, there are other issues there. I think in time we'll find that few US companies take this step permanently or successfully.