The real question is how did the young man with marginal test scores get the plum wartime assignment

[BaliBabyDoc]

Lou Dubose (select excerpts)

For years the talk in Austin political circles had Bush using his father?s stroke as a Republican congressman from Houston to secure one of two or three rare open billets in an Air National Guard Unit ? after scoring in the 25th percentile on the standard test given to flight-program candidates.

Now that's what I call a damn progressive affirmative action policy.

So in 1999, as George W. Bush was running for president, Barnes and the Bush military record were going to court. Barnes told his story in a five-hour deposition and then told the reporters what he had told the court. As speaker of the Texas House, he would sometimes find slots in the National Guard for the fortunate sons of friends and supporters. It had already been reported that two of his aides would take the names of the lucky young men who won the legislative lottery over to the commandant of the Guard, who would find space for them. In 1969, a Houston oil-service company executive called on Barnes and asked him to get George W. Bush into the National Guard.

So this is what we?re supposed to swallow:
A close friend of the Bush family took it upon himself to get G.W. Bush a billet in the Air National Guard. A Democratic House Speaker who had nothing to gain from helping a two-term Republican from Houston did so because it was the right thing to do ? while he was, in the Wild West of campaign finance, raising money to run for statewide office. And the younger Bush, after scoring the absolute minimum on his flight test, was moved to the top of the recruiter?s list by Guard officers who recognized his potential as a flyer.

Personally it's easy for me to believe that GHWBush did not explicitly ask someone else to help get Bush, the Lesser into the Guard. But I don't buy the Bushie BS about him being an excellent candidate for flight training.

 

[smashp]

CCR: Fortunate Son

 

[UltraQuiet]

Yawn

 

[UltraQuiet]

Yawn

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: smashp
CCR: Fortunate Son

You mean the song about Al Gore?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Three phone calls were made after the Super Bowl.
Pres. Bus called the Patriots and congratulated them on being winners.
Al Gore called the Panthers and said he thought they got ripped off.
Bill Clinton called Janet Jackson.

1) Bush had preordained the Pats would win . . . that's why Brady was hosted during the SOTU.
2) What makes you think Gore wouldn't congratulate the Panthers on great season?!
3) Clinton appears to favor poor or otherwise out of luck women . . . I'm not sure Janet qualifies.

UQ, would you want someone with bare minimum qualifications working on your boat? I'm not saying a standardized test is the end-all be-all . . . and I should know since I taught standardized testing for three years. But it's difficult to comprehend anything other than influence . . . explaining how Bush got into the Guard. The fact that he cannot acknowledge the impression of favoritism strikes me as a horrible lack of insight on his part. Granted maybe I'm wrong maybe it was pure luck that he requested a slot and was awarded a slot almost immediately. Or better still . . . Bush was the most qualified applicant and there was a slot available.

 

[Corn]

But it's difficult to comprehend anything other than influence . . . explaining how Bush got into the Guard.

O....M....G....

Welcome to the obvious BBD.

This topic is so, like, last week.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Umm well our President is claiming NO ONE helped him get into the Guard . . . doesn't that make him either an idiot or an unapologetic liar?

 

[chess9]

BBD:

He's both.

-Robert

 

[Corn]

Is Bush claiming "NO ONE helped him get into the Guard?" What, where, when?

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Three phone calls were made after the Super Bowl.
Pres. Bus called the Patriots and congratulated them on being winners.
Al Gore called the Panthers and said he thought they got ripped off.
Bill Clinton called Janet Jackson.

1) Bush had preordained the Pats would win . . . that's why Brady was hosted during the SOTU.
2) What makes you think Gore wouldn't congratulate the Panthers on great season?!
3) Clinton appears to favor poor or otherwise out of luck women . . . I'm not sure Janet qualifies.

UQ, would you want someone with bare minimum qualifications working on your boat? I'm not saying a standardized test is the end-all be-all . . . and I should know since I taught standardized testing for three years. But it's difficult to comprehend anything other than influence . . . explaining how Bush got into the Guard. The fact that he cannot acknowledge the impression of favoritism strikes me as a horrible lack of insight on his part. Granted maybe I'm wrong maybe it was pure luck that he requested a slot and was awarded a slot almost immediately. Or better still . . . Bush was the most qualified applicant and there was a slot available.

I have worked with lots of people that only had the bare minimum qualifications. You know what we do when we get those people. We TRAIN them. That's why there is a minimum standard. Much like Bush, who got his wings and was a qualified pilot. This whole Bush/National Guard thing is an ever moving target for some people: Deserter---> AWOL--->Bare Minimum service ---> Avoidance of VietNam---> Favortism--->the Appearance of Favortism. Make up your minds. Or better yet why not focus on some real issues. Bush has never claimed his national guard time was anymore than what it actually was. He's not claiming any amount of self sacricfice or claiming to be a war hero. All he's ever said was that he did his time, got his pilots wings, earned his points and was honorably discharged. Focus on something real or focus on this and lose another election. Doesn't matter to me the whole issue is boring the sh!t outta me. Yawn.

 

[dahunan]

George Herbert Walker Bush >>On his 18th birthday he enlisted in the armed forces. The youngest pilot in the Navy when he received his wings, he flew 58 combat missions during World War II. On one mission over the Pacific as a torpedo bomber pilot he was shot down by Japanese antiaircraft fire and was rescued from the water by a U. S. submarine. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for bravery in action.


George Walker Bush >> "25th percentile on the standard test given to flight-program candidates" Then went AWOL

 

[burnedout]

This whole Bush/National Guard thing is an ever moving target for some people: Deserter---> AWOL--->Bare Minimum service ---> Avoidance of VietNam---> Favortism--->the Appearance of Favortism. Make up your minds. Or better yet why not focus on some real issues.

Yeah, amazing how the media/anti-Bush, Inc. have now altered their stance.

The question still stands for everyone but UQ (he knows the answer already): Why didn't the media or anyone else bring this matter up when Bush's dad was the President or Vice-President for 12 consecutive years?

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: burnedout

This whole Bush/National Guard thing is an ever moving target for some people: Deserter---> AWOL--->Bare Minimum service ---> Avoidance of VietNam---> Favortism--->the Appearance of Favortism. Make up your minds. Or better yet why not focus on some real issues.

Yeah, amazing how the media/anti-Bush, Inc. have now altered their stance.

The question still stands for everyone but UQ (he knows the answer already): Why didn't the media or anyone else bring this matter up when Bush's dad was the President or Vice-President for 12 consecutive years?

Because it didn't matter at that exact point in time

 

[heartsurgeon]

. doesn't that make him either an idiot or an unapologetic liar?

BBD can't you get ANYTHING RIGHT?

I've tried to teach time and time again, the Liberal Mantra (or "Trifecta" as I prefer) is:
Bush is:
1) an idiot
2) a liar
3) immoral

you only got two of the three..shape up now!

 

[arsbanned]

He got in the Guard the same way he got into Yale: Family influence.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Why didn't the media or anyone else bring this matter up when Bush's dad was the President or Vice-President for 12 consecutive years?

Well when GHWBush was VP/President . . . GWB was busy trying to make money off his father's connections. I doubt anyone really cared about a n'er do well son of a gun. Hell, Clinton was President for 8 years and I still don't care about Roger or Chelsea.

I've tried to teach time and time again, the Liberal Mantra (or "Trifecta" as I prefer) is:
Bush is:
1) an idiot
2) a liar
3) immoral

Although some Bush policy appears idiotic I think it's probably just ambitiously misinformed . . . granted being ignorant instead of idiotic isn't much of an achievement. I doubt Bush lies anymoreso than any previous President . . . but this administration goes to great lengths to misinform and obfuscate. It takes a lot for me to call someone immoral. I don't see Bush in the Nixon or Kissinger legacy of questionable morals but he's certainly no follower of Christ as far as I can tell.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Why didn't the media or anyone else bring this matter up when Bush's dad was the President or Vice-President for 12 consecutive years?

Well when GHWBush was VP/President . . . GWB was busy trying to make money off his father's connections. I doubt anyone really cared about a n'er do well son of a gun. Hell, Clinton was President for 8 years and I still don't care about Roger or Chelsea.

I don't buy it.

The media ripped Billy Carter for his smoking, drinking, uncollateralized loans through Bert Lance, remarks about Jews and money from the Libyans. Hugh Carter, Jimmy's cousin also received considerable attention from the media for his southern, religious preferences. All of this coverage occured while Jimmy Carter was either a presidential candidate or the U.S. President. But how much attention was given before Carter entered the White House or campaigned? Zero. Nada. Zilch.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I don't understand your objection. GWB was under the radar in part b/c the media largely gave GHWB a pass . . . plus there wasn't really anything exceptional about GWB . . . except for the fact he couldn't find oil in Texas.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I don't understand your objection. GWB was under the radar in part b/c the media largely gave GHWB a pass . . . plus there wasn't really anything exceptional about GWB . . . except for the fact he couldn't find oil in Texas.

The media did not give GHWB the proverbial pass, particularly when he was President. Read some of the NYT archives covering his finances, deals, and yes, his family. We might conclude that comparatively scant attention by the media might be attributed to the fact that the family didn't attract any.

My objection is this:

President Bush ran for Congress in 1978 and lost. He campaigned for an anti-KKK candidate in Texas in 1988. He was elected Texas Governor in 1994. His father was in the White House or close to it for 12 consecutive years. No mention was ever made of these supposedly serious transgresssions back then. "What? The (Vice) President's son was AWOL from the Guard during 'Nam?" never went to print or newsdesk.

Almost every U.S. President since Truman has endured at least one detrimental instance reported by the media regarding their children or siblings or parents, etc. The frequency of this negativity, as portrayed by the media and concerned parties, has increased significantly since the 1960s. As earlier alluded, the Carters were crucified by a hungry press.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, was stated in the media from 1978 until 1999 concerning the alleged AWOL, marginal test scores or favoritism. The documents obtained by awolbush.com or whoever were a matter of public record back then. During all of those years, not one adverse word pertaining to the allegations in question was uttered until the U.S. Presidency entered the picture.

In otherwords, we are witnessing conveniently manufactured negativity for the purposes of dramatization. Why weren't these allegations mentioned when GHWB ordered National Guardsmen to the Persian Gulf in 1990-91? If the allegations were not an issue before, then why now? We can argue that he is currently the U.S. President and the importance thereof carries increased significance particularly in this time of conflict.

How so, I ask? Since the initial allegations were brought to the attention of the nation in 1999 and, with the exception of internet chat rooms or third-rate propaganda websites, we have witnessed virtually no follow-up coverage by the national media until now. Why the inconsequentiality between the last election and this one? Lastly, why has the media and the DNC recently shifted emphasis or, to put it another way, moved the goalposts, now that his records have been released?

The reason is because the allegations are of no more importance now than before.

 

[0roo0roo]

you mean the reason is because the media is liberal right?



the reason is that bush ran for president during a time of peace and after 2 terms of clinton who had no military record either. (but who was constantly attacked by conservatives on this point) times have changed, and now bush calls himself a war president, abuses the military for photo ops and claims the reason to keep him around is national security. yet now we know, when he was called on to protect his country, he ducked. he abused his priviliged position to take another mans spot. someone else had to be drafted in his place to do combat so bush could stay safe. he didn't do it for moral reasons, he didn't object to the war, he simply ducked. thats some character.

the fact that the media gives republican candidates a pass on too many things is not new.

this is a man that was wrong on all counts of foreign policy during his campaign. he said he wouldn't bog out military down in nation building etc, he's gone back on everything he's said.

the world has changed, and now he shall be judged by a higher standard.

"I particularly condemn the way our political leaders supplied the manpower for that (the Vietnam) war. The policies -- determining who would be drafted and who would be deferred, who would serve and who would escape, who would die and who would live -- were an antidemocratic disgrace. I can never forgive a leadership that said, in effect: These young men -- oorer, less educated, less privileged -- are expendable (someone described them as "economic cannon fodder"), but the rest are too good to risk. I am angry that so many sons of the powerful and well placed and many professional athletes (who were probably healthier than any of us) managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units . Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to our country."

Colin Powell, in his autobiography, "My American Journey

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Lou Dubose (select excerpts)

For years the talk in Austin political circles had Bush using his father?s stroke as a Republican congressman from Houston to secure one of two or three rare open billets in an Air National Guard Unit ? after scoring in the 25th percentile on the standard test given to flight-program candidates.

Now that's what I call a damn progressive affirmative action policy.

So in 1999, as George W. Bush was running for president, Barnes and the Bush military record were going to court. Barnes told his story in a five-hour deposition and then told the reporters what he had told the court. As speaker of the Texas House, he would sometimes find slots in the National Guard for the fortunate sons of friends and supporters. It had already been reported that two of his aides would take the names of the lucky young men who won the legislative lottery over to the commandant of the Guard, who would find space for them. In 1969, a Houston oil-service company executive called on Barnes and asked him to get George W. Bush into the National Guard.

So this is what we?re supposed to swallow:
A close friend of the Bush family took it upon himself to get G.W. Bush a billet in the Air National Guard. A Democratic House Speaker who had nothing to gain from helping a two-term Republican from Houston did so because it was the right thing to do ? while he was, in the Wild West of campaign finance, raising money to run for statewide office. And the younger Bush, after scoring the absolute minimum on his flight test, was moved to the top of the recruiter?s list by Guard officers who recognized his potential as a flyer.

Personally it's easy for me to believe that GHWBush did not explicitly ask someone else to help get Bush, the Lesser into the Guard. But I don't buy the Bushie BS about him being an excellent candidate for flight training.

This is not Affirmative Action if you rich and or politically connected....

 

[freegeeks]

It's payback time for the 8 years of Clinton bashing

 

[CaptnKirk]

The actual answer to 'How He Got In' is easily ascertained by reviewing who else got in during that timeframe.
There were 3 'Special Appointment Slots available:

1) Ex Governor John Connelly's son was one (Connelly of JFK Assassination fame - he was also shot)

2) Lloyd Bentson's son. (I knew JFK, and you ain't no JFK (Directed at Dan Quayle)

3) George H.W. Bush's son.

All at the time of appointment were priveledged and powerful politicians in Texas.
Good-Old-Boy Network at it's best, doing what it excells at - partisan favoritism.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Umm well our President is claiming NO ONE helped him get into the Guard . . . doesn't that make him either an idiot or an unapologetic liar?

eh, hard to choose, both are so applicable...