The REAL plan for what Democrats will do if they take control

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jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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I get really tired of hearing that the Dems "have no plan". They have put forth many worthy goals. Plans are usless unless you first define the goal you are trying to reach, and then devise actions that that are likely to get you there. Even if the Dems finally achieve the ability to function in our government through numbers, any actual plans for achieving these goals will involve working with the Repubs, some of which seem to be real knuckleheads. The absence of a list of bullit points comprising a "plan" should, on its face, be seen as a reference to the fact that they know they will have to work things out with the Repubs to some extent.

The problem with most Repub "plans" anymore is that they seem to represent less and less value. That what we receive is worth far less than what we pay for.

Take Iraq. We were lead to belive the price in blood would be low (flowers at our feet, lauded as liberators). That the dollar price would be low (Iraqi oil would pay for the war). For our meager investment, we were assured that we would be safer, and the M.E. would be much more stable. Well, the reality is that the price in blood has been high, the price in treasure has been astronomical; we created more anomosity than ever imagined (which makes us less safe), and destablized the region. A poor value indeed.


A 700mi fence? Many see this as an ineffective measure. Others see this as a diversion of funds for other efforts that might be much more effective. A lot of people would then logically viewe this as a poor value.

I imagine I could write a small book on the many plans of the Repubs that look like a poor value to the people that really look at them. There would be a least a chapter that involved payment of a different kind as well. The trading of our precious freedoms and assurances of benign government for a false sense of safety. A bargin we really can't afford.

I am certainly ready to shop for plans that offer real value. We just need to put the people in place to offer them to us.
 

TheInternal

Senior member
Jul 7, 2006
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one or two folks brought up the issue of "facts" and the sources of news for arguments. I feel that argument is rather irrelevant.

Most sources of "news", particularly televised, are no longer "news", but something to fill the airwaves with between commercial breaks. Presenting non-biased investigative journalism doesn't serve the interests of the companies broadcasting the "news", nor does having programming that questions the actions of our corporate America. (http://www.thecorporation.com/ , http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/)

From what I see aired on most of the "news", the average America wants to see the latest black male who committed a crime, why George W. is such a "good Christian" (we all know Jesus loved sending people into war, right?), why all Muslims should be feared, and at least one warm fuzzy piece about a puppy being rescued.

Hell, John Stewart and Bill Clinton have both rightfully called a number of media outlets on FAILING their duty of properly informing the public. (Even John Stewart has said on the air that it's SAD that many Americans trust his fake news show for their news more than the "mainstream" offerings. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid...656043401&q=john+stewart+on+crossfire).

The mainstream news often just omits or slanders stories of real public interest these days. Folks who question the 9/11 stories are all magically conspiracy theory nuts (don't ask questions, it means your a conspiracy theory liberal nut like these guys: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=loose+change+recut , http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid...77175242198&q=from+freedom+to+fascism)

I've seen on Fox in particular, that if someone asks "why is our government doing this?", they get slandered and mocked. Last I checked, slander was not a form of journalism.

In fact, a number of folks feel so strongly about Fox falsely calling themselves news, that they are trying to get the channel's license revoked. http://civic.moveon.org/fox// , http://www.outfoxed.org/

I used to minor in journalism and studied under a very old school prof who was all about "you're opinion doesn't matter. report both sides, avoid biased." I'm currently going through the college of journalism at the University of North Texas, working on my second degree, currently in advertising. From my personal experiences with journalistic endeavors, I've concluded that the state of our "news" is nauseating. (which is why I get my news about the U.S. from the BBC.)

These are just a handful of ideas on the matters, conclusions I've drawn from observations, lengthy discussions, and arguments with fellow concerned citizen. My ideas might be different tomorrow, but that's one reason I call them ideas. Ideas can change, "facts", real or imagined, seldom do. I added a link or two to satiate those who don't care what I have to say and find solace in what some other person tells them.

If you want to present an argument, explain the logic behind it... I have some very conservative friends whom I disagree with on many aspects of politics, but understand their view point because they explain it.

ProfJohn, by making the assumption that people feel the same way you do and/or feel totally different than you do, you set yourself up to be made fun of and lessen your argument. I encourage you to use a little more tact the next time you present your ideas, rather than taking an offensive. Your profile signature alone is just screaming to become a self fulfilling prophesy.

"Stay at home in your mind. Don't recite other people's opinions. I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Journals, 1843
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
What do you mean, "who could disagree" with those goals? Clearly the Republicans do...destroying al-Qaeda and bin Laden and finishing the job in Afghanistan have all taken a backseat to the Iraqi adventure. As for stopping nuclear weapons development in Iran and North Korea, again, I don't see Republicans doing a whole hell of a lot...everything is Iraq, Iraq, Iraq. It's like AA, admitting you HAVE a problem is the first step to solving it. Unfortunately it's not the last step, but it puts the Dems one up on the Republicans.
Its obvious from the Foley scandal that that Republican solutions to solving problem any problem is to ignore it and either hope it goes away or another one takes its place.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: TheInternal
...

I also find the irrational labeling of moderates as "extreme left" disturbing and a bit perverted. Extreme left used to mean mass socialization, tearing down buildings to let plants grow, and hugging everyone. Now "extreme leftists" are folks who happen to say "woah, what's going on? Could you explain to me why you're doing that? It doesn't make any sense."

Just my two cents.

I don't think the "righties" realize they are doing it, they still thing they are conservative, so anyone who questions them MUST be some sort of flaming liberal. Supporting the Bill of Rights has become some sort of subversive communist activity, and taking positions that people like Barry Goldwater would find a lot of common ground with means you are about 1 step away from actually being Karl Marx. And God help you if you wish someone "happy holidays"...

Republicans are so far out in left field (if you'll pardon the expression) that their perspective on the debate is skewed beyond belief.

Amen, it's hard to imagine any rational person looking at our political climate and actually believing that voting Republican is in our best interest. I have hard-lined conservative friends admitting to me how the current Republican party is all but a name, and has nothing to do with his beliefs. Most R's I know are actually abstaining this election, which will be a huge problem for the GOP's GOTV. I don't know if many are inclined to vote Democratic, but I do know a large portion are just staying away from the polls this round.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,767
6,770
126
ProfJohn reminds me of some baseball player whose name I forget who cracked under the strain of the unrelenting pressure his father put him through to become a professional and who was hauled away in a straight jacket screaming "If it weren't for my father I wouldn't be where I am today.", hearing somebody attribute that as a cause.

The interesting thing about mental illness is that we love being sick. We are as attached to our delusions as a fly is to fly paper.
 
Sep 14, 2005
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At least with the democrats, when my taxes are raised, I can expect some sort of social benefit.

With the current republicans/neocons/GOP/congress all of the money goes to the military industrial complex, which needs perpetual wars, which the administration will happily deliver, and the congressmen will happily support to keep money flowing to their districts. War has become an industry unto itself to the current bunch, their actions are to benefit themselves and their corporations, not the country's interest. They are acting on behalf of the defense industry, not the american people.

I'm ready to take schools over B-17s.
 

hellokeith

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2004
1,664
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Originally posted by: shadow9d9
"It is a very good point. Politically I am an independent and have voted independent many times"

Quoted for BS.

If you are calling me a liar, I respectfully ask you to prove it. Because I was there and punched the buttons in the voting booth. As a matter of fact, one of my votes went for a conservative independent candidate who took *many* votes away from a republican running for president, and the democrat won.

edit: spelling
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn

If the Democrats win though you may have to put up with me bitching for 2 years. Best part of it will be I can post one anti-Democrat thread after another, like the ones we see now, and get away with it. And when ever someone says ?what is the Republican plan? all I have to say is ?they aren?t the party in power, they can?t get anything done? like the Democrat posters are doing now? Could be fun :D

buwhahaha, you're kidding right. The GOP will have control of the Senate, Presidency, and the Supreme Court. The Democrats will have a slight majority in the House and the majority of Governorships. Since when does 0.5 branches of the 3 main branches make your party the party in power. <gasp> you mean the GOP will actually have to work with the Democrats to get something done? Why yes, yes it does.
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
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Er, you do realize that the Colbert Report is making FUN of you guys, right?

Colbert ROASTED the Dimocrat...he got her to agree that the Dimocrat platform would be "raise taxes, cut and run."

How that's supposed to be making fun of conservatives utterly eludes me, but you know I didn't get the subtle humor behind the John Kerry "joke" from a couple days ago either.

You kids...always joking around....
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,009
55,448
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The San Diego Union Tribune is actually an extremely right wing paper. I would place it on par with the Washington Times. I should know, it's my hometown paper.

Regardless of your stance on the issues, saying that specific people voted to "cut military spending" or voted against this or that is often a really really stupid way to characterize things. Considering the amount of spending/regulatory items in a single bill, you can make the accusation against nearly any member of congress that they have voted against the military or such at some point. If you are intellectually honest, examine the reasons why they vote against bills that you think you like... and then decide whether to hate them or not.

Also, the Democrats barely qualify as a leftist party. Compared to the rest of the world they would probably be center-right, and the Republican party would be EXTREME right wing. America has been very seriously tilted in a conservative direction since the 80's.