The Real 24: From Iraq to the Homefront

[datalink7]

This article was done on my Company Outpost. You can even see me in one of the video's (though, of course, if you don't know what I look like you wouldn't know ). It's focus is mostly on one of my Squad Leaders and my Company Commander.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. And answer any questions (that I can).

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=4162935&page=1

 

[M0R0NI]

Thanks for Sharing!

 

[Lemon law]

To Datalink7,

Very good post. It really shows the complexity of your jobs. Ordinary Americans trying to make sense out of insanity. And just trying to make a small dent in the supply of weapons of ordinary deadly destruction. Who to trust and who not to.

But I still feel the same way, we can and should support out troops but still not support out politicians who are bungling their jobs while you take all the risks. What is missing is political progress at the top.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Datalink7,

Very good post. It really shows the complexity of your jobs. Ordinary Americans trying to make sense out of insanity. And just trying to make a small dent in the supply of weapons of ordinary deadly destruction. Who to trust and who not to.

But I still feel the same way, we can and should support out troops but still not support out politicians who are bungling their jobs while you take all the risks. What is missing is political progress at the top.

True, it is a mess at the top. Which is why we are trying to change it from the bottom up. We've held our own neighborhood "elections", independent of the government, so the locals can have neighborhood representatives. These representative then attend bi-weekly reconciliation meetings where we discuss everything from services, building projects, and making peace between the two embattled communities (Sunni and Shia, both of whom attend).

If the government ever decides they want to help, all the better. But we'll just continue to plug along at our level and see if we can make a difference.

 

[Lemon law]

As datalink7 now adds----We've held our own neighborhood "elections", independent of the government, so the locals can have neighborhood representatives. These representative then attend bi-weekly reconciliation meetings where we discuss everything from services, building projects, and making peace between the two embattled communities (Sunni and Shia, both of whom attend).
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Now you are really making me pleasantly surprised. While I very much doubt you are getting the insurgents in the community to attend, I assume you are attracting some moderates who just want life to normalize.

Could you please please share what these Iraqis are saying and in the full range of diversity of views.

 

[palehorse]

Keep your head down bro, and keep up the great work!

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As datalink7 now adds----We've held our own neighborhood "elections", independent of the government, so the locals can have neighborhood representatives. These representative then attend bi-weekly reconciliation meetings where we discuss everything from services, building projects, and making peace between the two embattled communities (Sunni and Shia, both of whom attend).
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Now you are really making me pleasantly surprised. While I very much doubt you are getting the insurgents in the community to attend, I assume you are attracting some moderates who just want life to normalize.

Could you please please share what these Iraqis are saying and in the full range of diversity of views.

Well, Iraqi's say a lot. Get them together and they like to talk. Though sometimes it is hard to get them to stay on subject. I remember one time we started a meeting with the subject of "sewage issues for each neighborhood" and one man raised his hand, stood up, and started talking about how his "goats" were being stolen by someone and he demanded to know who.

But seriously, there is a quite a diverse opinion concerning many different issues. At first, it was hard to get Shia and Sunni to the same table. And then when we did, all they talked about was how the "other side" was committing all kinds of crimes against them. However, after a while a lot of them have begun to realize that they were both talking in the same language and that both "sides" were commiting crimes against the other. A Shia would kidnap a Sunni. Sunnis would retaliate by attacking a random religious procession. Shia would retaliate by sniping at high schoolers as they left school. And on and on.

Once the local leaders came to this realization they began to see that it would never end, and that a lot of innocent people were caught in the middle. The Sheiks, Imams, and local leaders made and signed an agreement to try to stop the violence and stabilize the region so that contractors could come in and fix all the essential services that they currently refused to fix because of the poor security.

Do all want the Americans there? No. Right now, more Shia express that they'd rather we weren't there. But most actually say we can't leave right now, that it's too early. And I've heard some say that none of the violence can be blamed on the Americans. That Iraqi's need to take control of their own country and the blame rests squarely on themselves for the high level of violence.

Since we came up with this idea of empowering local neighborhoods through representation, we have seen a dramatic drop in violence in the area. We used to find dead bodies all the time. 4 dead kidnapped victims on the side of the road, a dead young boy, sniped, in the canal... Now it's been months since we've seen one. We used to be engaged almost every patrol. Now it is rare. Iraqi Army is operating in sector without being constantly engaged (though they are more than us).

Interestingly, even some of the more "hardcore" criminals are laying down their arms and, while not attending meetings, they keep in close touch with some of the representatives. They know they've done enough to be arrested on sight, but some are tired of the killing and fighting as well.

Of course, there are still those out there who wish to disrupt the peace process. And we are still trying to capture those individuals. But things are certainly doing a lot better than when we first arrived.

Now, some say the US Army has had no impact on the drop in violence. That the "Surge" did nothing. That it was all because of the ceace fire by Al-Sadr, or other reasons. I would say it has something to do with the grassroots efforts, put together and overseen by the US Army, of local leaders who want to end the violence, and our aggressive pursuit and arrest of killing of local perpetrators of criminal activities. Of course, you don't see any of this in the media because they all mostly focus on the "government." They rarely leave the green zone and go out in sector where all the real work is being done. And even when they do (like the news crew that covered us... only the 2nd in 12 months), they generally only stay for a day or two so it is hard to realize what is happening. And the news rarely makes headlines.

You said you wanted a range of the diversity of views from the Iraqi's. Well, there are a lot on a lot of different issues. I've stated some... but if you have something specific feel free to ask.

 

[Lemon law]

As datalink7 has done all that I have asked now he asks---You said you wanted a range of the diversity of views from the Iraqi's. Well, there are a lot on a lot of different issues. I've stated some... but if you have something specific feel free to ask.

While I do not know if your given sector is typical, I would have to say your unit is doing exactly the things that will be most effective. And from what you have said, I tend to see what you report as being typical of people everywhere.

But in terms of being free to ask my question, a little background might be in order. I have long hypothesized that many of the "Iraqi insurgency" problems are due to local strong man types seizing local control after the police state central government of Saddam vanished with Saddam. And the local populations rallied around strong man types who could protect them from other strong men groups of the opposite religious sect. And from there the sectarian violence simply fed on itself. And for want of a better name, the real government of Iraq might be described as Feudalism. In the case of Europe, that was the dominant government form after the fall of Rome. And it took Europe nearly a thousand years of bumping and grinding to really transition into what we call "modern states." And the big LOSERS in this process were what we now call the lesser nobility who were basically descended from the early strong men the common people rallied around for protection. And the term Duke, count, knight are all still in our vocabulary even thought they are largely irrelevant today.

So having done my background, my question to you datalink7 is what will these local strong man types do now that they are becoming increasingly irrelevant? Because like people everywhere, they have had a chance to taste power, and I have a hunch that they will resist giving that power up easily.

Just wondering what your take is on that type question and any of your thoughts and inputs will be appreciated. But I agree, right now the Iraqi central government in the green zone is largely irrelevant. And I also wonder if many of the legislators are in fact strong men types
who cling to power by preventing any agreements.

 

[StageLeft]

So having done my background, my question to you datalink7 is what will these local strong man types do now that they are becoming increasingly irrelevant? Because like people everywhere, they have had a chance to taste power, and I have a hunch that they will resist giving that power up easily.

Interesting. I was watching a few days ago something about one of the first tank groups into baghdad. As the city started to fall apart the US military had to be police, but their ROE was basically only attack if being attacked. There were some working in concert with Iraqi police (same guys who'd been police under Saddam), watching these police work. Their approach was basically hit first, ask questions (or rather scream them) after. It was clearly simply a part of being a cop was regularly beating and thugging, it was in their blood, but the military could merely escort. And it wasn't a lack of man power, they'd get in needless kicks as suspects were put into a car. Surely it will take some time for the culture to get used to moderation and discussion before thuggery.

Seeing how these troops operate in Iraq and Afghanistan does show that irrespective of the greater command or direction of the war, they are trying to make a difference and are in fact making one on the smaller level.

 

[Lemon law]

Historically Iraqis have a great distrust of the police. Because in Iraq, the police tended to mean Saddam Hussein's secret police and the enforcement arm of a police State.

The only institution in Iraq that previously maintained some national support was the Iraqi army which Saddam kept integrated with Sunnis and Shias serving side by side. And early on in the occupation, the Iraqi army was disbanded.

Sadly Iraqi insurgents corrupted both the police and army faster than they could be recruited. And in terms of helping now, both tend to be worse than useless in many areas of Iraq because they adopt the agenda of religious sects rather than any national purpose.

 

[datalink7]

So having done my background, my question to you datalink7 is what will these local strong man types do now that they are becoming increasingly irrelevant? Because like people everywhere, they have had a chance to taste power, and I have a hunch that they will resist giving that power up easily.

It is hard to answer as fully because I can't say all that I know because of OPSEC requirements. I know that sounds like a cop-out but those are the rules I live under.

Firstly, your assessment is pretty good. In the power vacency left after the fall of Saddam and the previous government, a lot of local "thugs" (as I like to call them) grabbed whatever power they could and carved out their own territory. Most of these thugs would have been petty and fairly insignificant if there had been any kind of government to stop them. However, since there wasn't, they grew to be far more powerful than they would normally have been.

Now how are they reacting to a loss of power? Well, I doubt that any of them like it very much. However, there is a decided split. Some, while they like being the big bad guy on the block, also hate sleeping with one eye opened fearful that an American platoon is going to kick down their door in the middle of the night, every night. They are willing to fade back out of sight in exchange for some sleep, so to speak. The rest aren't so willing and will continue to resist the change. A very rough estimate... about 70% for the former and 15% for the later with the rest undecided.