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The quietest rig on the planet: Passivley cooled P4?

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Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: FishTankX
Originally posted by: Cerb
If you're putting a P4 to 1.2GHz, why not get an Athlon?
1700+ (1.47GHz) at 1.1Ghz with a SLK-800a/u or SLK-900u might just run passively, and would certainly beat a P4 at 1.2GHz! A 1700+ might even work at normal speed with the SLK-900 passively cooling it.
...then maybe put it in a wooden box, maybe lined with mouse pads or rubber carpet padding stuff.
If you can get away with it, having machine *just* outside a door, so you can close the door and still use it. That will also cut down a lot of noise.
Click to expand...

P4's are much easier to cool, an Athlon has a significantly lower surface area. So at the same wattage it's easier to disipitate power with a P4 than with an Athlon.

That being said, you'd have to have a massive heatsink and fan mechanism for the athlon, and seeing that most Athlon boards these days do not support mounting holes, i'd be hard up to devise a system to get it low enough. Remember, my goal is no moving parts.
Click to expand...
Zalman makes some pretty massive ones...
That being said, if I was using the AthlonXP 1700+, I would unlock the multiplier and most probably bring it down to 6X100MHZ FSB for 600MHZ. Much easier to passivley cool.
Click to expand...

Then why not just go for a PIII, P4 Celeron or morgan-based Duron? A real P4 @1.2 just seems like an amazing waste.
BTW, for a cheap one, since performance is obviously not key, $68 gets you a reliable Athlon board w/ mounting holes (I'm speaking of course of my AK35GT2).
Click to expand...

PIII's are a thought, but the i815 only supports 512MB of memory. I wanna be able to record to a RAM drive in a jam.

Pro audio doesn't get along with Via chipsets, period. If I wanted an Athlon I would probably go with a KG-7 or something. That being said, I still think P4's due to their much lower MM^2*heat*clock ratio should be easier to passivley cool.

And I dobut this P4 will be that that expensive.
 
May I make a suggestion?
You may want to really consider the MSI Hermes barebones machine, under 30db under load, 25db at idle. That's really darn quiet, at least as quiet as those Dell systems. You'll get more noise from certain hard drives.

Pros:
All you need to do is drop in a lower-end P4 or even Celly 2.0 (should be plenty of power for most audio work) RAM, CDRW and HDD. Make sure you get a quiet HDD!
It's cheap! 😀
It's quiet!
It has two standard PCI slots.
It has all the connections you'd ever need on the back/front.
It's SMALL! (You can take it wherever the band is...)

Cons:
Small = cramped when putting together, not for playing around inside often.
Two PCI slots, and THAT'S IT. No AGP gaming...
It's not the prettiest case going...
No hyperthreading + 800FSB yet...
Proprietary mobo = harder to upgrade if you're an upgrade nut.


I'm sure there's more +/- but you get a good idea.
Marketing stuff.
 
Hrmm...how about this. Have the computer in an entirely different room....And get wireless (RF signal rather than infrared) mouse and keyboard

The only weird part is if there are any wireless moniters out there.....if there are not just get really long arse cables for the moniter and speakers

but that seems like a more better idea mainly because you can have that p4 stay at stock settings and get more preformance parts I guess
 
Originally posted by: NaughtyusMaximus
You wont have *any* problem doing this. Don't listen to the naysayers. 😉

I have an Athlon 1700+ overclocked to 2.0Ghz (2400+ speeds), using a relativly small copper heatsink, and 16dB 60mm fan (can't remember the brand). It runs seti@home 24/7, and has been happily chugging along like this without *any* stability problems for 6+ months. The only time it is even restarted is to update my kernel version.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I use a Thermalright SLK800 on my Athlon XP 1700+ tbred b, and can oc it to around 2.3ghz, at 100 degrees f with a antec 2600 rpm fan, I think with a voltage drop and running at low as possible volts, it could work at 1.1GHz, and not need a heatsink, it runs very cool at it's default speed for me.
 
OK, I know this project is being engineered for the maximum possible geek factor, but from a practical standpoint it just seems silly to me. Firstly, you say you're recording a rock band, in which case the difference between an ultra-quiet papst fan or two and a totally fanless system will amount to approximately jack squat, even if its amplified 4x by multitracking. You really wouldnt be able to hear a good conventionally silenced system under your ambient room noise anyway from typical user distance, and on top of that you'll probably be keeping the computer a good 8-10 feet away from your recording source and using directional mics. Your money is far better spent on improving room acoustics (which are likely pretty crappy and _will_ make an audible difference) as opposed to a totally fanless system (which won't). Of course, i admit my ignorance on your exact situation, and i'm not a recording professional, so... yeah.

So you want to go fanless anyway. Could be a steep task, depending on what the system needs to do. But what is it really doing? Just dumping audio over the network to a gruntier PC. From what i can ascertain, no DSP, no synthesis, just gathering it up, packaging it, and sending it off. You could firstly save yourself a ton of money by just using a tualatin Celeron @1.2ghz for forty-something dollars instead of that ridiculous underclocked P4. Its got an average power consumption of something like 20 watts if i remember correctly, nothing that cant be handled with adequate passive cooling. It'll probably approximate the Northwood's performance at that clock speed/bus speed, anyhow. And the task is trivial. As for the power supply, the $200 fanless model is equally ridiculous. This system will be drawing, what, 40 freaking watts, peak? Just get a reasonably grunty standard power supply and disconnect the fan. Under that load, it'll do just peachy - the $200 models are designed to deliver their full rated output, fanless. As for the motherboard... get an SiS chipset, or something. You certainly wouldn't want the newer DDR-supporting CLE266 from Via, because it has the cooties. (I understand that the earlier model vias had problems with audio cards, but i really doubt that this has carried over into their later models. I suspect its just lingering superstition, but again, i could be wrong).

Now if you've got money to burn and just want to build something of maximum geekitude, try a near-silent watercooled dual Athlon with a remote SCSI drive. But if you're just trying to fit the task, theres my 2 cents.
 
Originally posted by: lameaway
OK, I know this project is being engineered for the maximum possible geek factor, but from a practical standpoint it just seems silly to me. Firstly, you say you're recording a rock band, in which case the difference between an ultra-quiet papst fan or two and a totally fanless system will amount to approximately jack squat, even if its amplified 4x by multitracking. You really wouldnt be able to hear a good conventionally silenced system under your ambient room noise anyway from typical user distance, and on top of that you'll probably be keeping the computer a good 8-10 feet away from your recording source and using directional mics. Your money is far better spent on improving room acoustics (which are likely pretty crappy and _will_ make an audible difference) as opposed to a totally fanless system (which won't). Of course, i admit my ignorance on your exact situation, and i'm not a recording professional, so... yeah.

So you want to go fanless anyway. Could be a steep task, depending on what the system needs to do. But what is it really doing? Just dumping audio over the network to a gruntier PC. From what i can ascertain, no DSP, no synthesis, just gathering it up, packaging it, and sending it off. You could firstly save yourself a ton of money by just using a tualatin Celeron @1.2ghz for forty-something dollars instead of that ridiculous underclocked P4. Its got an average power consumption of something like 20 watts if i remember correctly, nothing that cant be handled with adequate passive cooling. It'll probably approximate the Northwood's performance at that clock speed/bus speed, anyhow. And the task is trivial. As for the power supply, the $200 fanless model is equally ridiculous. This system will be drawing, what, 40 freaking watts, peak? Just get a reasonably grunty standard power supply and disconnect the fan. Under that load, it'll do just peachy - the $200 models are designed to deliver their full rated output, fanless. As for the motherboard... get an SiS chipset, or something. You certainly wouldn't want the newer DDR-supporting CLE266 from Via, because it has the cooties. (I understand that the earlier model vias had problems with audio cards, but i really doubt that this has carried over into their later models. I suspect its just lingering superstition, but again, i could be wrong).

Now if you've got money to burn and just want to build something of maximum geekitude, try a near-silent watercooled dual Athlon with a remote SCSI drive. But if you're just trying to fit the task, theres my 2 cents.
Click to expand...


I was considering that road, but I don't always want to be limited to network recording. I was thinking of doing the RAM drive thing (1GB-1.5GB) and then just dumping it to DVD or Redbook CD's when it's done. I know I didn't mention that, it slipped my mind. Anyways, there are hardly any P3 chipsets that both support the Tualatin platform, and more than 512MB of RAM. And after reserving 400$ of the budget for this for sound proof matting for the room, i'd imagine the acoustics are O.K.

The problem is that I don't know if this will predominatley used for recording rock in the future. I want this rig to remain viable under all recording conditions.

I'm thinking long and hard about the P4 M family though, as they have an astronomical TMax and look to be extremley power optimized.
 
Originally posted by: SpeedKing
A Northwood @ 1.2Ghz will still outperform all coppermine P3's.
Click to expand...

I don't quite think so. The 1GHz version would go pretty close.
Click to expand...

Are you sure, with a 12X multiplier and 512K cache?

Remember, this isn't the wimpy williamettes. The P4C's have almost surpassed the IPC of the thunderbirds, acording to AMD's model numbers.
 
Cool cool, I guess I had underestimated the seriousness of your endeavor, fishtank 😀 Are you sure the old VIA problems carry over into the CLE266? It's a new chipset that supports up to 2 gigs of DDR266 and integrated MPEG-2 decoding, so i'd guess that most of it bears little resemblence to the other VIA chipsets for those processors. Other than that, newegg stocks the AXP mobile 1900+, plain socket A, dunno if it will work in desktop boards ok or not. At least it's only $100 and easy to source.

Still, you might just be overestimating the SPL offered by the Papst fans. They're like.... woosh.... If you want performance headroom, get a low-end 50-watt Northwood, one of those funky undervolted Zalman 92mm orbs, a 120mm Papst outtake fan (no fan grille), and some Dynamat inside your case, and i think the SPL would be so damn low that it doesnt matter whether its the quietest rig on the planet or not... What I'd do is to try that, then consider either underclocking or trans-rooom phase-change watercooling 😎 if theres anything you can actually hear on the recording.
 
Originally posted by: lameaway
Cool cool, I guess I had underestimated the seriousness of your endeavor, fishtank 😀 Are you sure the old VIA problems carry over into the CLE266? It's a new chipset that supports up to 2 gigs of DDR266 and integrated MPEG-2 decoding, so i'd guess that most of it bears little resemblence to the other VIA chipsets for those processors. Other than that, newegg stocks the AXP mobile 1900+, plain socket A, dunno if it will work in desktop boards ok or not. At least it's only $100 and easy to source.

Still, you might just be overestimating the SPL offered by the Papst fans. They're like.... woosh.... If you want performance headroom, get a low-end 50-watt Northwood, one of those funky undervolted Zalman 92mm orbs, a 120mm Papst outtake fan (no fan grille), and some Dynamat inside your case, and i think the SPL would be so damn low that it doesnt matter whether its the quietest rig on the planet or not... What I'd do is to try that, then consider either underclocking or trans-rooom phase-change watercooling 😎 if theres anything you can actually hear on the recording.
Click to expand...


Heh. Well, I think an MCX478 (With the case oriented on it's side, so that heat rises, with holes punched for venthilation) should be able to handle a 20ish watt P4M. (Thanks Mingon!)

Does anyone know where to buy heat pipes?


 
Originally posted by: bluemax
May I make a suggestion?
You may want to really consider the MSI Hermes barebones machine, under 30db under load, 25db at idle. That's really darn quiet, at least as quiet as those Dell systems. You'll get more noise from certain hard drives.

Pros:
All you need to do is drop in a lower-end P4 or even Celly 2.0 (should be plenty of power for most audio work) RAM, CDRW and HDD. Make sure you get a quiet HDD!
It's cheap! 😀
It's quiet!
It has two standard PCI slots.
It has all the connections you'd ever need on the back/front.
It's SMALL! (You can take it wherever the band is...)

Cons:
Small = cramped when putting together, not for playing around inside often.
Two PCI slots, and THAT'S IT. No AGP gaming...
It's not the prettiest case going...
No hyperthreading + 800FSB yet...
Proprietary mobo = harder to upgrade if you're an upgrade nut.


I'm sure there's more +/- but you get a good idea.
Marketing stuff.
Click to expand...

Well in the studio I think they consider 15DB loud, because once noise is on a recording it's impossible to remove. So i'm shooting for no moving parts. Looks like i'm getting closer to my goal, though.

With the P4M's 100C TMax I can probably have headroom all the way up to 80C or so.
 
Originally posted by: magomago
Hrmm...how about this. Have the computer in an entirely different room....And get wireless (RF signal rather than infrared) mouse and keyboard

The only weird part is if there are any wireless moniters out there.....if there are not just get really long arse cables for the moniter and speakers

but that seems like a more better idea mainly because you can have that p4 stay at stock settings and get more preformance parts I guess
Click to expand...

We already have a grunt rig worked all out. This is just a capture station.
 
WATERCOOLING!

that watercooling article at overclockers.com is an overkill.. you don't need it to be at 29C.. 60C will be fine...

just get a nice radiator.. put it outside of your case..

should be dead silent.
 
Originally posted by: virtualgames0
WATERCOOLING!

that watercooling article at overclockers.com is an overkill.. you don't need it to be at 29C.. 60C will be fine...

just get a nice radiator.. put it outside of your case..

should be dead silent.
Click to expand...


A pump is probably alot worse than a fan on a recording.. 🙁

But the grunt rig is water cooled.
 
I'm with magomago on this one. Why bother keeping the computer in the same room? Most recording is done like this, anyhow. Why reinvent the wheel?

If you really need to have the computer in the same room, I think there are much better solutions. A good case, well ventilated with 2 or 3 quiet 120mm fans and a big slow HSF should be quiet enough. If you want better, you can build a wooden box around the computer on castors, with a huge slow fan intaking air underneath and another exhausting out the back. Line it with carpet on the inside. Cheap, quiet, and well-protected (if heavy) for moving around.

Either way, just keep the computer as far away from the mics as possible. It really won't be a big deal unless you are using large diaphragm condensors.

If you do start recording acoustic stuff with big sensitive mics, and you can afford a room quiet enough that good conventional cooling as mentioned above still shows up, then you can probably also afford a control room too.
 
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