Info The QD-OLED Era begins. TVs and Gaming monitors announced.

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,051
2,290
136
I almost bought a 65 inch C1 for $1500 when I had the chance but didn't. For a brief moment, I was glad as this new tech will absolutely make better TVs, but now I fear the price will be double, or worse.

I'll reserve final judgement until MSRP for these models comes out but I kinda regret not getting it now.
I expect it will be triple or worse. I would expect the 65" QD-OLEDs to cost $5000+.

This is Samsung after all, and they have something quite good to market here.

In reality, unless you were comparing them side by side, you would never notice the difference, so I would just stick with the MUCH less expensive LG based OLEDs.
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,535
426
136
I expect it will be triple or worse. I would expect the 65" QD-OLEDs to cost $5000+.

This is Samsung after all, and they have something quite good to market here.

In reality, unless you were comparing them side by side, you would never notice the difference, so I would just stick with the MUCH less expensive LG based OLEDs.
Early rumors said about $8000 USD, but I think some people at CES were saying it would be lower than that, but probably not by a lot.

I think $5-6k is reasonable for the first year.
 

Furious_Styles

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
447
151
86
QD-OLED is much less expensive than initial reports and results are looking great. Vincent at HDTV Test thinks the Alienware AW3423DW QD-OLED monitor is the best PC gaming monitor ever. They even have a 3 year burn in warranty. I hope they make a 27" 16:9 1440p version.

You and me both. I'd pre-order a 27" in no time. In fact I'm waiting to see what we get as the year rolls on.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,761
286
126
Yeah, and the pricing is very competitive (at least in the TV 65" size, which is something like $2799 - 2999 depending on the press release you read). Yes that is more than a regular OLED, but this is more than a regular OLED as well.

Time will tell. Still, I am looking to see how good the 4k LED TVs are this year. While the 3 year warranty against burn-in is good, I personally expect my TV's to last between 5-10 years (heck my current main TV is actually going on 16 years, but it is/was a decent LCD screen, with 1080p input and 120Hz refresh, including a dual-link DVI connection). And because of that, it is still running great, even with years of a HTPC, game console usage, and stock tickers/station logos, it has no burn-in.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
6,678
3,723
136
I wonder how well these units handle burn in.
Shouldn't be an issue since the QD-OLEDs only use blue lights. OLED burn-in is a result of uneven pixel degradation (through some being overused due to static content keeping them on much longer) so it won't matter here since the LEDs are basically acting as a backlight and should age/wear more evenly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
17,191
541
126
Shouldn't be an issue since the QD-OLEDs only use blue lights. OLED burn-in is a result of uneven pixel degradation (through some being overused due to static content keeping them on much longer) so it won't matter here since the LEDs are basically acting as a backlight and should age/wear more evenly.
So true!! That Dell monitor comes with a 3 year no burn in warranty. I hate curved monitors though, or I would order one.
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,051
2,290
136
Shouldn't be an issue since the QD-OLEDs only use blue lights. OLED burn-in is a result of uneven pixel degradation (through some being overused due to static content keeping them on much longer) so it won't matter here since the LEDs are basically acting as a backlight and should age/wear more evenly.
Not really. LG OLEDs only use White pixels and they still get burn in.

Burn in is just a fact of life with OLED.

The only question is the rate of burn in.

QD-OLED may do better than LG W-OLED, because LG uses conventional color filters that block unwanted colors, and QD-OLED uses quantum dots that convert colors. That latter is much more efficient.

Higher efficiency means you can create the same brightness with lower initial output. Lower output equals slower burn in.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
6,678
3,723
136
Not really. LG OLEDs only use White pixels and they still get burn in.

Burn in is just a fact of life with OLED.

The only question is the rate of burn in.

QD-OLED may do better than LG W-OLED, because LG uses conventional color filters that block unwanted colors, and QD-OLED uses quantum dots that convert colors. That latter is much more efficient.

Higher efficiency means you can create the same brightness with lower initial output. Lower output equals slower burn in.
OLEDs use the standard RGB sub-pixels, but include a white sub-pixel as well. See rtings.com article if you don't believe me. Maybe LG makes some displays that operate only off of white pixels, but the LG television I have isn't one of those.

Burn-in on OLEDs is a result of some pixels aging more than others (because they're constantly on due to a static portion of the image never changing) which means that if you attempt to display a solid color certain areas won't be as bright, which makes an image appear "burned in" to the display.

I suppose you could cause the same problem on a QD-OLED by having some pixels always on and others always off which would cause uneven wear leveling and a similar phenomenon where part of the screen would appear darker. Far less likely to happen though unless you're watching nothing but letterboxed movies or something like that.

The only way to get some kind of image retention would be if the QD layer gets stuck, but this is a lot more like a stuck pixel than burn in. I'm not sure if that can happen or how likely it is as I don't know how it physically works, but we'll assume it's less likely than other problems a display could experience.
 

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,850
945
136
OLEDs use the standard RGB sub-pixels, but include a white sub-pixel as well. See rtings.com article if you don't believe me. Maybe LG makes some displays that operate only off of white pixels, but the LG television I have isn't one of those.

Burn-in on OLEDs is a result of some pixels aging more than others (because they're constantly on due to a static portion of the image never changing) which means that if you attempt to display a solid color certain areas won't be as bright, which makes an image appear "burned in" to the display.

I suppose you could cause the same problem on a QD-OLED by having some pixels always on and others always off which would cause uneven wear leveling and a similar phenomenon where part of the screen would appear darker. Far less likely to happen though unless you're watching nothing but letterboxed movies or something like that.

The only way to get some kind of image retention would be if the QD layer gets stuck, but this is a lot more like a stuck pixel than burn in. I'm not sure if that can happen or how likely it is as I don't know how it physically works, but we'll assume it's less likely than other problems a display could experience.
The LG TV's are entirely white subpixels with R G and B color filters to change the 4 white subpixels into RGBW. They're still fundamentally all the same color, white, and therefore are not susceptible to varying oled color degredation rates.
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,051
2,290
136
OLEDs use the standard RGB sub-pixels, but include a white sub-pixel as well. See rtings.com article if you don't believe me. Maybe LG makes some displays that operate only off of white pixels, but the LG television I have isn't one of those.

Burn-in on OLEDs is a result of some pixels aging more than others (because they're constantly on due to a static portion of the image never changing) which means that if you attempt to display a solid color certain areas won't be as bright, which makes an image appear "burned in" to the display.

I suppose you could cause the same problem on a QD-OLED by having some pixels always on and others always off which would cause uneven wear leveling and a similar phenomenon where part of the screen would appear darker. Far less likely to happen though unless you're watching nothing but letterboxed movies or something like that.

The only way to get some kind of image retention would be if the QD layer gets stuck, but this is a lot more like a stuck pixel than burn in. I'm not sure if that can happen or how likely it is as I don't know how it physically works, but we'll assume it's less likely than other problems a display could experience.
All LG OLED TVs use all white OLED subpixels with color filters on top of the R, G, B. Color filters similar to what LCD uses.

OLEDs in phone/laptops/tablets use tri color OLED, where each OLED material is unique to the color, and they don't use filters:



Though LG, likes to call the color filters - Color Refiners:

 
  • Like
Reactions: Mopetar

igor_kavinski

Platinum Member
Jul 27, 2020
2,544
1,304
96
Funny how LG is touting their approach as better than Samsung's but historically, their phone OLED displays have had the most problems.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
17,191
541
126
Funny how LG is touting their approach as better than Samsung's but historically, their phone OLED displays have had the most problems.
They've been at war with Samsung for years now, but I'm waiting for them to wave the white flag and jump on the QD-OLED bandwagon.
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,051
2,290
136
Funny how LG is touting their approach as better than Samsung's but historically, their phone OLED displays have had the most problems.
Different solutions for different niches.

From the perspective of manufacturing OLED TVs, LG did have the superior approach ( higher yield and lower cost) which is why Samsung gave up on OLED TV way back and left the market to LG.

I do think the tables have turned now and QD-OLED is now the better OLED TV solution.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,761
286
126
I do think the tables have turned now and QD-OLED is now the better OLED TV solution.
That is indisputable that QD-OLED is a better approach for a superior quality display. It does not lose nearly as much of the light intensity with the quantum filters as opposed to the filters LG uses (which is why LG needed the WOLED to push up the light, but with the drawback that is is washing out the colors at the same time since it is mixing white light into the colors).

The QD-OLED tech on the other hand uses a pure blue OLED as the light generation, and then uses quantum dots to convert the blue light into red and green light with very little loss of light energy lost from the conversion (as it isn't a filter like LG does filtering out all light but the red, blue, or green from the white light, which effectively cuts upwards of two-thirds of the light energy from the OLED backlight as it filters out two-thirds of the wavelengths used to produce the white light back into the pure red, green, and blue). This is why LG's OLEDs struggle in bright rooms because they are inherently losing a lot of their brightness by filtering it off to produce RGB sub pixels, and so they added back in an additional unfiltered W subpixel to try and add some much needed brightness back, but at the risk of washing out the RGB subpixels.

With Samsung removing the filtering process, and instead using a quantum dot conversion process to create the Red and Green subpixels, the colors do not get washed out by additional white light, and as such are more intense. At the same time, since the filtering does not occur, the panel can be made brighter as the design is much more efficient in maintaining the available light being produced by the blue OLEDs. All things being equal, the blue OLEDs in the Samsung panel as the white OLEDs need to be in the LG panel. This allows Samsung the capability to go brighter, or take advantage of the power and cooling savings of the higher efficient design allowing for possible increased longevity as heat is the real killer for OLEDs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: igor_kavinski

igor_kavinski

Platinum Member
Jul 27, 2020
2,544
1,304
96
This allows Samsung the capability to go brighter, or take advantage of the power and cooling savings of the higher efficient design allowing for possible increased longevity as heat is the real killer for OLEDs.
So true. First time I touched the back of my LG OLED, I was shocked by its temperature. You just don't expect a thin sheet to produce so much heat.
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,051
2,290
136
HWUB review. Drawbacks:

Fan Noise.
Poor handling of Room lighting.
Text can have color fringing from Triangular subpixel arrangement.
Gamma curve bit messed up.

 
  • Wow
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
2,850
945
136
HWUB review. Drawbacks:

Fan Noise.
Poor handling of Room lighting.
Text can have color fringing from Triangular subpixel arrangement.
Gamma curve bit messed up.

HDTVTest had the same criticisms, except he said he never heard fan noise during testing.

I had ordered one when there was a way to order it for under $1000, but cancelled it since I'd have to use it for work and the subpixel arrangement/text clarity issues would drive me insane.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,761
286
126
I'm still holding off for the micro-LEDs. I think the issue is manufacturing related trying to keep defects down low enough to actually create the panels. It is one of the reasons why Samsung went with a modular system for "The Wall" since they would only need to make much smaller panels that were defect free and as a result only need to lose a small panel if a defect occurred and not lose the larger full sized TV.
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,051
2,290
136
Yikes! What the heck is that? That's not black! They knew this was an issue and still shipped it???
Reminds me of when I had my first LCD sitting next to my CRT. If the lights were on, the CRT would glow in room light and blacks would look worse than LCD. Shut off the lights and it would reverse.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY