The push to exurbia and how it spells Democrat and urban doom

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Long story but a worthwhile read. I find it amusing how the authors (correctly) identify the movement to exurbia as being the death knell of their concepts of themselves. But it's time for them to face facts, large cities (pop. 1 million plus) in the classic "urban core" model are an anarchronism of a bygone age. They're a magnet for terrorists, feature a jeckyl and hyde worthy example of the split between the filthy rich and destitute poor, and their own residents make them uninhabitable owing to the fishbowl effect and unavoidable "tradgedy of the commons."

Basically, people from NYC and such, it's time to move over, your days of glory are over and never to return (and IMHO good riddance). The next century belongs to the Mesa, AZ and Orange Counties of America.

Story link
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Good luck with that when the oil reserves drying up and everyone living in BFE :roll: I guess it's time to farm again lets just push humanity back 1000 years! thats the ticket.
Mc Mansion suburbs are as soulless as the strip mall drive through wasteland they serve.
Sorry, some people like having something to do and a bit of culture.
Every time I go out there is someone new creative young person moved here from the burbs, or should I say escaped. People come from across the world to live in the city, who is going to pick up and move to mesa, az to escape boredom and a cultureless wasteland of their hometown? glenn you got some whacky ideas keep it up, you never cease to keep me in stitches.

Suburbs have and will always have what they call brain-drain, usually the brightest and most creative sorts move away to come to the city, leaving the "normies" back home.
This will never change until the small town becomes it's own cultural capitol -in other words a city.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Why do you feel so threatened by cities? They will remain hubs of power in your lifetime. Don't fret, nobody is forcing you to visit though. Stay in the sticks, please.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,805
6,361
126
Cities are the Future, not the Past. They are more efficient and as Energy costs increase so will the lure of the city, where inefficient forms of Transportation are no longer necessary.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
The author is, of course, spot on. Exburbs are disgusting - exceedingly ugly and are simply a terrible way to live. I get sick every time I look at those horrible new big box stores with the endless parking lots. I have a friend whose family lived in Ajax, ON and it seemed as if the whole city featured only 1 kind of house. They've since realized their mistake and they moved a few blocks from where I live.

If you remember your Ireland thread glenn, I told you that I'd like to move there someday, and this is one of the main reasons. I've been to a number of north american cities and they are all terrible. Only the (tiny) old part of Montreal comes anywhere even close to what a city should be. Unfortunately I still have 2 more years of commitments here...after that, I'm gone :)



 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Why do you feel so threatened by cities? They will remain hubs of power in your lifetime. Don't fret, nobody is forcing you to visit though. Stay in the sticks, please.

I am always astonished by the number of things some people (many of whom appear to be on the right) hate. I love big cities, more so than smaller areas. But I don't hate small areas, I kind of like them. They have their good points, I just prefer big cities.

Interestingly enough, while I can see big cities becoming a smaller percentage of the population, I don't see it as the "death of liberalism" or anything like that. I don't believe the area you live in makes you one way or another politically. I think it might reflect your values, but it doesn't make them. I am the same person living in Iowa as I was when I lived in California, or the Twin Cities in Minnesota.

I should also mention that I'm very amused by the number of "doom of the Democrats" threads there have been since the election. This isn't about your "team" winning or losing, and the fact that some of you can't get past this football game mode of thinking is very sad.
 

MisterCornell

Banned
Dec 30, 2004
1,095
0
0
The guy who writes the article doesn't get it. People don't move out to exurban areas because of what the houses look like. They don't care about that. They are family people who want a decent sized house for their children, low cost of living, nice public schools nearby, and lots of space in between them and inner city troublemakers.

His main premise that "suburbs are ugly" isn't even true. Has he ever been to Detroit? Or Brooklyn? Those are not pretty areas. Most urban places in the U.S. (outside of downtowns with their gleaming skyscrapers) are filled with rows of ugly houses or brick tenement buildings. The suburbs are much nicer with their greenery and neatly clipped lawns.

This guy's article comes a few months too late. After the November election, everyone immediatly pointed out how Bush won 97 of the country's 100 fastest growing (typically exurban) counties. The best analysis I've seen of it comes from Steve Sailer:

http://www.amconmag.com/2004_12_20/cover.html

Baby Gap

How birthrates color the electoral map

By Steve Sailer

Despite the endless verbiage expended trying to explain America?s remarkably stable division into Republican and Democratic regions, almost no one has mentioned the obscure demographic factor that correlated uncannily with states? partisan splits in both 2000 and 2004.

Clearly, the issues that so excite political journalists had but a meager impact on most voters. For example, the press spent the last week of the 2004 campaign in a tizzy over the looting of explosives at Iraq?s al-Qaqaa munitions dump, but, if voters even noticed al-Qaqaa, their reactions were predetermined by their party loyalty.

The 2000 presidential election, held during peace and prosperity, became instantly famous for illuminating a land culturally divided into a sprawling but thinly populated ?red? expanse of Republicans broken up by small but densely peopled ?blue? archipelagos of Democrats.

Four years of staggering events ensued, during which President Bush discarded his old ?humble? foreign policy for a new one of nearly Alexandrine ambitions. Yet the geographic and demographic profiles of Bush voters in 2004 turned out almost identical to 2000, with the country as a whole simply nudged three points to the right.

Only a few groups appeared to have moved more than the average. The counties within commuting distance of New York?s World Trade Center became noticeably less anti-Bush. Yet even the one purported sizable demographic change?the claim by the troubled exit poll that Bush picked up nine points among Hispanics?appears to be an exaggeration caused by small sample sizes and poor survey techniques. In the real world, Hispanic counties swung toward Bush only about as much as everybody else did.

That the president launched a war under false pretenses no doubt caused a few highly-informed constituencies, such as the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CIA, and the subscribers to this magazine, to shift many of their votes, but almost every group large enough to be measurable by exit polling was relatively stable. If they supported Bush?s foreign policy in 2000, they supported his contrary stance in 2004 and vice versa.

Still, this doesn?t mean voters are choosing red or blue frivolously. Indeed, voters are picking their parties based on differing approaches to the most fundamentally important human activity: having babies. The white people in Republican-voting regions consistently have more children than the white people in Democratic-voting regions. The more kids whites have, the more pro-Bush they get.

I?ll focus primarily on Caucasians, who overall voted for Bush 58-41, in part because they are doing most of the arguing over the meaning of the red-blue division. The reasons blacks vote Democratic are obvious, and other racial blocs are smaller. Whites remain the 800-pound gorilla of ethnic electoral groups, accounting for over three out of every four votes.

The single most useful and understandable birthrate measure is the ?total fertility rate.? This estimates, based on recent births, how many children the average woman currently in her childbearing years will have. The National Center for Health Statistics reported that in 2002 the average white woman was giving birth at a pace consistent with having 1.83 babies during her lifetime, or 13 percent below the replacement rate of 2.1 children per woman. This below-replacement level has not changed dramatically in three decades.

States, however, differ significantly in white fertility. The most fecund whites are in heavily Mormon Utah, which, not coincidentally, was the only state where Bush received over 70 percent. White women average 2.45 babies in Utah compared to merely 1.11 babies in Washington, D.C., where Bush earned but 9 percent. The three New England states where Bush won less than 40 percent?Massachusetts, Vermont, and Rhode Island?are three of the four states with the lowest white birthrates, with little Rhode Island dipping below 1.5 babies per woman.

Bush carried the 19 states with the highest white fertility (just as he did in 2000), and 25 out of the top 26, with highly unionized Michigan being the one blue exception to the rule. (The least prolific red states are West Virginia, North Dakota, and Florida.)

In sharp contrast, Kerry won the 16 states at the bottom of the list, with the Democrats? anchor states of California (1.65) and New York (1.72) having quite infertile whites.

Among the 50 states plus Washington, D.C., white total fertility correlates at a remarkably strong 0.86 level with Bush?s percentage of the 2004 vote. (In 2000, the correlation was 0.85.) In the social sciences, a correlation of 0.2 is considered ?low,? 0.4 ?medium,? and 0.6 ?high.?

You could predict 74 percent of the variation in Bush?s shares just from knowing each state?s white fertility rate. When the average fertility goes up by a tenth of a child, Bush?s share normally goes up by 4.5 points.

In a year of predictably partisan books, one lively surprise has been What?s the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank, a left-wing journalist from Kansas who, after a sojourn in Chicago, now lives with his wife and single child in the Democratic stronghold of Washington, D.C. Frank is puzzled by why conservative Republicans in his home state are obsessed with cultural issues such as abortion, gay marriage, and teaching evolution in the schools instead of the leftist economic populism that Frank admires in Kansas?s past.

While the Christian Right in Kansas doesn?t much hold with Darwin, they are doing well at the basic Darwinian task of reproducing themselves: pro-life Kansas has the fourth-highest white fertility in the country at 2.06 babies per woman, and the birthrate of the conservative Republicans that Frank finds so baffling is likely to be even higher. On the crucial question of whether a group can be bothered not to die out, ?What?s the Matter with Massachusetts?? would be a more pertinent question. Massachusetts?s whites are failing to replace themselves, averaging only 1.6 babies per woman, and the state?s liberal Democrats are probably reproducing even less than that.

So white birthrates and Republican voting are closely correlated, but what causes what? The arrow of causality seems to flow in both directions.

To understand what?s driving this huge political phenomenon, you have to think like a real-estate shopper, not like an intellectual. Everybody loves to talk real estate, but the sharp insights into how the world works that you hear while shooting the breeze about houses and neighborhoods seldom work their way into prestigious discourse about public affairs.

As you?ve seen on all those red-blue maps, most of America?s land is red, even though Kerry won 48 percent of the vote. Even excluding vast Alaska, Bush?s counties are only one-fourth as densely populated on average as Kerry?s counties. Lower density helps explain why red regions both attract the baby-oriented and encourage larger families among those already there.

A dozen years ago, University of Chicago sociologist Edward O. Laumann and others wrote a tome with the soporific postmodern title The Social Organization of Sexuality. I wrote to them and suggested a follow-up called The Sexual Organization of Society because, in my experience with Chicago, where people lived coincided with their sexual status. In 1982, when I moved to Chicago as a young single man, I sought out detailed advice on where the greatest density of pretty girls lived and there rented a 21st-floor apartment with a stunning view of Lake Michigan. I became engaged three years later, and so, mission accomplished, I moved to a less chic neighborhood with more affordable rents. Two years later, when my bride became pregnant, we relocated to an even more unfashionable spot where we could buy ample square footage. (To my satisfaction, Laumann?s team just this year published a categorization of Chicago?s neighborhoods entitled The Sexual Organization of the City.)

My experience is hardly unusual. Singles often move to cities because the density of other singles makes them good places to become unsingle. But singles, especially women, generally vote Democratic. For example, in the 2002 midterm elections, only 39 percent of unmarried women and 44 percent of unmarried men voted for a GOP candidate for the House of Representatives. In contrast, 56 percent of married women voted for the GOP, similar to their husbands? 58 percent. The celebrated gender gap is, in truth, largely a marriage gap among women.

When city couples marry, they face major decisions: do they enjoy the adult-oriented cultural amenities of the city so much that they will stick it out, or do they head for the suburbs, exurbs, or even the country to afford more space for a growing family?

Couples attempting to raise children in a big blue city quickly learn the truth of what bond trader Sherman McCoy?s father told him in Tom Wolfe?s Bonfire of the Vanities: ?If you want to live in New York, you?ve got to insulate, insulate, insulate.? Manhattan liberals all believe in celebrating diversity in theory but typically draw the line at subjecting their own offspring to it in the public schools. With Manhattan private K-12 school tuitions now approaching $25,000, insulating multiple children rapidly becomes too expensive for all but the filthy rich.

In tempting contrast, the cost-of-living calculator provided by Realtor.com says that a $100,000 salary in liberal Manhattan buys only as much as a $38,000 salary in conservative Pinehurst, North Carolina. Likewise, a San Francisco couple earning $100,000 between them can afford just as much in Cedar City, Utah if the husband can find a $44,000-a-year job?and then the wife can stay home with their children. Moreover, the culture of Cedar City is more conducive to child rearing than San Francisco. Having insulated themselves through distance rather than money, they can now send their kids to public schools. (Among red states, the South has lower white fertility than the northern Great Plains and Great Basin, perhaps because many Southern conservatives, like many Manhattan liberals, prefer private schools, which makes children more expensive than out in Lewis & Clark Country, where the public schools are popular because they aren?t terribly diverse.) In Cedar City, the wife won?t feel as unprestigious for being a stay-at-home mom as she would in San Francisco. And mom won?t have to chauffeur the kids everywhere because traffic and crime are light enough that they can ride their bikes.

With more children, the couple will have less money per child to buy insulation from America?s corrosive media culture, so they are likely to look to the government for help. Typically, red-region parents don?t ask for much, often just for quasi-symbolic endorsements of family values, the non-economic gestures that drive Thomas Frank crazy. But there?s nothing irrational about trying to protect and guide your children. As the socially conservative black comedian Chris Rock advises fathers, ?Your main job is to keep your daughter off The Pole? (i.e., to keep her from becoming a stripper).

That red-region parents want their politicians to endorse morality does not necessarily mean that red staters always behave more morally than blue staters. While there are well-behaved red states such as Utah and Colorado, hell-raising white Texans are 3.4 times more likely than white New Yorkers to be behind bars. Similarly, whites in conservative Mississippi and South Carolina are one-sixth as likely as blacks in those states to be imprisoned, compared to the national average of one-ninth. By contrast, in ultra-liberal Washington D.C., whites are only one-fifty-sixth as likely to be in the slammer as blacks.

The late socialist historian Jim Chapin pointed out that it was perfectly rational for parents with more children than money to ask their political and cultural leaders to help them insulate their kids from bad examples, even, or perhaps especially, if the parents themselves are not perfect role models.

Focusing on children, insulation, and population density reveals that blue-region white Democrats? positions on vouchers, gun control, and environmentalism are motivated partly by fear of urban minorities.

In 2001, the Wall Street Journal?s favorite mayor, Brett Schundler, ran for governor of New Jersey on a platform of vouchers to help inner-city children attend better schools in the suburbs. The now notorious Democrat Jim McGreevey beat him badly because white suburban moderates shunned this Republican who put the welfare of urban minority children ahead of their own. These homeowners were scraping together big mortgage payments precisely to get their kids into exclusive suburban school districts insulated from what they saw as the ghetto hellions that Schundler hoped to unleash on their children. They had much of their net worths tied up in their homes, and their property values depended on the local public schools? high test scores, which they feared wouldn?t survive an onslaught of slum children. So they voted Democratic to keep minorities in their place.

The endless gun-control brouhaha, which on the surface appears to be a bitter battle between liberal and conservative whites, also features a cryptic racial angle. What blue-region white liberals actually want is for the government to disarm the dangerous urban minorities that threaten their children?s safety. Red-region white conservatives, insulated by distance from the Crips and the Bloods, don?t care that white liberals? kids are in peril. Besides, in sparsely populated Republican areas, where police response times are slow and the chances of drilling an innocent bystander are slim, guns make more sense for self-defense than in the cities and suburbs.

White liberals, angered by white conservatives? lack of racial solidarity with them, yet bereft of any vocabulary for expressing such a verboten concept, pretend that they need gun control to protect them from gun-crazy rural rednecks, such as the ones Michael Moore demonized in ?Bowling for Columbine,? thus further enraging red-region Republicans.

Likewise, liberals in blue areas such as Northern California pioneer environmental restrictions on development in part to keep out illegal immigrants and other poor minorities. Thinly populated Republican areas are pro-development because increasing density raises property values as once remote regions obtain roads, sewer hookups, cable television, local shopping, and nice restaurants. If poorly planned, however, overcrowding causes property values to lag, allowing poor people to move in.

Conservative Southern California, home to Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, was traditionally more laissez faire than liberal Northern California, ultimately allowing itself to be inundated by poorly educated illegal aliens, wrecking the public schools. In contrast, environmentalist?and thus expensive?Northern California attracted a variety of skilled immigrants. Eventually, many Los Angeles Republicans either fled inland or decided that those San Francisco Democrats had the right idea all along.

Now illegal immigrants are flocking to other pro-growth red states, such as North Carolina and Georgia, and may eventually turn those states Democratic due both to the Democratic-voting immigrants? very high birthrates and to a California-style drift toward environmentalism among its white voters as laissez faire proves inadequate to keep out illegal aliens.

Nobody noticed that the famous blue-red gap was a white baby gap because the subject of white fertility is considered disreputable. But I believe the truth is better for us than ignorance, lies, or wishful thinking. At least, it?s certainly more interesting.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
In simpler terms, all the inner city Churches have dried up. The Religious have flocked to the Surburban Churches where they have built Monster buildings so much bigger than they could've built in the Cities.

These huge buildings serve many purposes for the Religious especially babysitting the kids while getting marching orders to squash the non-rich from the pulpit.

Very efficient operation actually, has paid off big time for the Republican machine.

 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
0
0
Originally posted by: glenn1
Long story but a worthwhile read. I find it amusing how the authors (correctly) identify the movement to exurbia as being the death knell of their concepts of themselves. But it's time for them to face facts, large cities (pop. 1 million plus) in the classic "urban core" model are an anarchronism of a bygone age. They're a magnet for terrorists, feature a jeckyl and hyde worthy example of the split between the filthy rich and destitute poor, and their own residents make them uninhabitable owing to the fishbowl effect and unavoidable "tradgedy of the commons."

Basically, people from NYC and such, it's time to move over, your days of glory are over and never to return (and IMHO good riddance). The next century belongs to the Mesa, AZ and Orange Counties of America.

Story link

OK, let me get this straight: You think this is a good thing? Bizarre....
 

Mavrick

Senior member
Mar 11, 2001
524
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Good luck with that when the oil reserves drying up and everyone living in BFE :roll: I guess it's time to farm again lets just push humanity back 1000 years! thats the ticket.
Mc Mansion suburbs are as soulless as the strip mall drive through wasteland they serve.
Sorry, some people like having something to do and a bit of culture.
Every time I go out there is someone new creative young person moved here from the burbs, or should I say escaped. People come from across the world to live in the city, who is going to pick up and move to mesa, az to escape boredom and a cultureless wasteland of their hometown? glenn you got some whacky ideas keep it up, you never cease to keep me in stitches.

Suburbs have and will always have what they call brain-drain, usually the brightest and most creative sorts move away to come to the city, leaving the "normies" back home.
This will never change until the small town becomes it's own cultural capitol -in other words a cit
y.

Very true. Suburbs are mostly for average people who are scared of differences and want to stay comfortably in their routines. Cities are places in which open minded people from all backgrounds, all origins meet to exchange ideas and learn new things. Most people prefering suburbia usually ditch the cities because they have no interest in what the city offers them (museums, live performances, meeting friends at a coffee shop to chat afterwork).
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Mavrick
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Good luck with that when the oil reserves drying up and everyone living in BFE :roll: I guess it's time to farm again lets just push humanity back 1000 years! thats the ticket.
Mc Mansion suburbs are as soulless as the strip mall drive through wasteland they serve.
Sorry, some people like having something to do and a bit of culture.
Every time I go out there is someone new creative young person moved here from the burbs, or should I say escaped. People come from across the world to live in the city, who is going to pick up and move to mesa, az to escape boredom and a cultureless wasteland of their hometown? glenn you got some whacky ideas keep it up, you never cease to keep me in stitches.

Suburbs have and will always have what they call brain-drain, usually the brightest and most creative sorts move away to come to the city, leaving the "normies" back home.
This will never change until the small town becomes it's own cultural capitol -in other words a cit
y.

Very true. Suburbs are mostly for average people who are scared of differences and want to stay comfortably in their routines. Cities are places in which open minded people from all backgrounds, all origins meet to exchange ideas and learn new things. Most people prefering suburbia usually ditch the cities because they have no interest in what the city offers them (museums, live performances, meeting friends at a coffee shop to chat afterwork).

Hey gimmie my words back. You stole em right from my own mouth! ;)
 

WiseOldDude

Senior member
Feb 13, 2005
702
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Why do you feel so threatened by cities? They will remain hubs of power in your lifetime. Don't fret, nobody is forcing you to visit though. Stay in the sticks, please.

They why are those of us that choose to live in the 'sticks' as you call them being overrun by arrogant assholes from the cities that move in cut down all the trees then want to change things to be the way they from where they came. Keep your rejects in your city
 

Blastomyces

Banned
Mar 23, 2004
482
0
0
Having lived in Orange County and currently in San Francisco, I cant wait for the day when I can move back to suburbia. If you want to pay twice as much for half as much house next to a bunch of piss covered homeless people, be my guest. Ill take my suburban house with it's nice yard, easy driving, and good schools every day of the week.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
you have a car in SF? If you haven't figured out...nm enjoy that suburb and commute. I just read the move "back" part. You obviously dont get it...see a few posts up.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
With populations surely to rise and not fall, how can cities not be the future?
 

MisterCornell

Banned
Dec 30, 2004
1,095
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
With populations surely to rise and not fall, how can cities not be the future?

MOst of this country is empty. Also the population is not going to grow indefinitely. The UN says the world population will peak sometime this century and then start to decline. In the U.S., it may happen in the next 50 years.

People have low tolerance for crowded living nowadays. Also the cities have so many problems, it is just not worthwhile to live in them, and many times to live well in a city is just cost prohibitory for most people.

Most of the future growth in the U.S. will be in fringe suburban ("exurban") areas.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
I've lived in most of the big cities in the States and many in the world. One of the down sides to working in the computer industry for 41 years. Never been in one I liked! The restaurants are usually dirty, too much population to get good health care - medical people are always too busy, traffic stinks, public transportation stinks more, etc. I can stand a city about a week. NYC and Chicago were the worst. The only good thing about NYC was shopping on 42nd street and the only good thing about Chicago was picking up women at Mothers on Rush street!
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I am surprised the author chose to bring up Southern California as a beacon of the best that exurbia has to offer...ridiculous housing costs, eliticist planned suburban communities that shelter people from the harsh realities surrounding them, and having to drive into the city to experience the cultural and entertainment draws of urban life...if the OC is the future, we might as well all shoot ourselves now.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Very true. Suburbs are mostly for average people who are scared of differences and want to stay comfortably in their routines. Cities are places in which open minded people from all backgrounds, all origins meet to exchange ideas and learn new things. Most people prefering suburbia usually ditch the cities because they have no interest in what the city offers them (museums, live performances, meeting friends at a coffee shop to chat afterwork).

I dont quite understand this generalizing of urban areas. I live in a city that has an urban area. We arent Chicago or NYC. But the Minneapolis area has about 2-2.5 million people.

I go down town all the time and I dont see this great exchanging of ideas I keep hearing about. The culture appears to be more artificial and a safety net than anything. And about the only thing you will see exchanged downtown are drugs or verbals because the traffic is crap. Mueseums and live performances hardly require an urban area to thrive. And most I have seen downtown arent worthy of return. And coffee shops are a dime a dozen anywhere in the metro area.

Urban areas from my experience are run down drug infested shitholes. They are a pain in the ass to navigate, and are crowded to the point of being annoying.

Not to mention for whatever reason the costs of living in these dumps are higher than in suburbia. Go figure!

I didnt read the article but I am looking at how easy it is to get connected with highspeed internet and teleconference equipment. I honestly wouldnt be surprised if in the next 50 years we see an implosion of the commercial real-estate markets as more and more business's take advantage of telecommuting. I look at my work and outside of customer service and our serverops team + manufacturing workers. The rest of the 400 or so people could easily work from home and we could consolidate our worksforce into a single building.

This will take time for this thinking to get into the corporate culture where they like to keep an eye on you. But the savings in building, insurance, and capital for office expenses could be huge.

Once the corporate culture decouples itself from the 20th century model. Then urban centers are free to disperse. People will have the ability to work from anywhere. Personally I want to grab some ranch land up in the mountains before it is too late :)
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
people are moving to the exurbs for many reason. But one big reason is the cost of housing and the desire more more space/bigger houses. Prices in many major cities are climbing so this is pricing people out of the market so they go further away for cheaper housing. Surburban housing is rising fast as well so people move further out. You then get these insane 2-3 hour commutes. I would never want to do that but some people do and have to. Anyway, some people want to live in Mesa or Stockton, I personally perfer the cities as there is a lot more to do.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
[
I dont quite understand this generalizing of urban areas. I live in a city that has an urban area. We arent Chicago or NYC. But the Minneapolis area has about 2-2.5 million people.

I go down town all the time and I dont see this great exchanging of ideas I keep hearing about. The culture appears to be more artificial and a safety net than anything. And about the only thing you will see exchanged downtown are drugs or verbals because the traffic is crap. Mueseums and live performances hardly require an urban area to thrive. And most I have seen downtown arent worthy of return. And coffee shops are a dime a dozen anywhere in the metro area.

Urban areas from my experience are run down drug infested shitholes. They are a pain in the ass to navigate, and are crowded to the point of being annoying.

Not to mention for whatever reason the costs of living in these dumps are higher than in suburbia. Go figure!

I didnt read the article but I am looking at how easy it is to get connected with highspeed internet and teleconference equipment. I honestly wouldnt be surprised if in the next 50 years we see an implosion of the commercial real-estate markets as more and more business's take advantage of telecommuting. I look at my work and outside of customer service and our serverops team + manufacturing workers. The rest of the 400 or so people could easily work from home and we could consolidate our worksforce into a single building.

This will take time for this thinking to get into the corporate culture where they like to keep an eye on you. But the savings in building, insurance, and capital for office expenses could be huge.

Once the corporate culture decouples itself from the 20th century model. Then urban centers are free to disperse. People will have the ability to work from anywhere. Personally I want to grab some ranch land up in the mountains before it is too late :)

Popular Science Magazine just recently did an article looking at America?s top cities for technology. The winner: unassuming yet consistently innovative Minneapolis.
Technopolis Found

I am frightened :)
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Our downtown is undergoing a revitalization. There are new high-rise condo buildings going in right near our waterfront. The Waterfront Park is still expanding, the downtown mall has been turned into, essentially, a giant nightclub. There are actually people walking about in downtown Louisville post-afternoon rush hour.

And, in the suburban areas, a new concept (for here) is starting (village-style developments: http://www.nortoncommons.com/ )
 

MCWAR

Banned
Jan 13, 2005
197
0
0
originaly posted by GENX87
Quote

I go down town all the time and I dont see this great exchanging of ideas I keep hearing about. The culture appears to be more artificial and a safety net than anything. And about the only thing you will see exchanged downtown are drugs or verbals because the traffic is crap. Mueseums and live performances hardly require an urban area to thrive. And most I have seen downtown arent worthy of return. And coffee shops are a dime a dozen anywhere in the metro area.
_________________________________________________________________________
Ahhh! The voice of common sense.
I work in the city and live in a rural area. To me the drive is well worth it. In the morning I leave my home and 5 acres in my nice Chevy truck, drive an hour to the city where I work. Step over the piss ridden bums, walk past the starbucks and internet cafes where all these great liberal ideals are exchanged, do my job and return home,(quite comfortably I might add).
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: MCWAR
originaly posted by GENX87
Quote

I go down town all the time and I dont see this great exchanging of ideas I keep hearing about. The culture appears to be more artificial and a safety net than anything. And about the only thing you will see exchanged downtown are drugs or verbals because the traffic is crap. Mueseums and live performances hardly require an urban area to thrive. And most I have seen downtown arent worthy of return. And coffee shops are a dime a dozen anywhere in the metro area.
_________________________________________________________________________
Ahhh! The voice of common sense.
I work in the city and live in a rural area. To me the drive is well worth it. In the morning I leave my home and 5 acres in my nice Chevy truck, drive an hour to the city where I work. Step over the piss ridden bums, walk past the starbucks and internet cafes where all these great liberal ideals are exchanged, do my job and return home,(quite comfortably I might add).

That's 2 hrs a day you'll never get back. That's like taking a 20% paycut if you include commuting time. I don't live in the city (SF) because I don't want to commute to Silicon Valley. But I do go out to the city quite a bit, because the suburbs are incredibly boring. You don't see hardly anyone walking on the streets, everything closes at 9, etc. There is nothing happening here at all. The piss ridden bums don't scare me. I don't feel the need to isolate myself from the real world. Of course if you are content sitting at home watching your TV , then no point living in the city.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,633
263
126
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: MCWAR
originaly posted by GENX87
Quote

I go down town all the time and I dont see this great exchanging of ideas I keep hearing about. The culture appears to be more artificial and a safety net than anything. And about the only thing you will see exchanged downtown are drugs or verbals because the traffic is crap. Mueseums and live performances hardly require an urban area to thrive. And most I have seen downtown arent worthy of return. And coffee shops are a dime a dozen anywhere in the metro area.
_________________________________________________________________________
Ahhh! The voice of common sense.
I work in the city and live in a rural area. To me the drive is well worth it. In the morning I leave my home and 5 acres in my nice Chevy truck, drive an hour to the city where I work. Step over the piss ridden bums, walk past the starbucks and internet cafes where all these great liberal ideals are exchanged, do my job and return home,(quite comfortably I might add).

That's 2 hrs a day you'll never get back. That's like taking a 20% paycut if you include commuting time. I don't live in the city (SF) because I don't want to commute to Silicon Valley. But I do go out to the city quite a bit, because the suburbs are incredibly boring. You don't see hardly anyone walking on the streets, everything closes at 9, etc. There is nothing happening here at all. The piss ridden bums don't scare me. I don't feel the need to isolate myself from the real world. Of course if you are content sitting at home watching your TV , then no point living in the city.

I will also add that the Chevy truck probably gets under 20 mpg so you add the cost of gas. I roll out of bed, shower, etc. hop on the metro and in 10 minutes, I am at work.