The purpose of a corporation is to make money.

DainBramaged

Lifer
Jun 19, 2003
23,454
41
91
Quit bitching about ExxonMobil. You would be really happy if you were a stockholder right now. Why should they feel bad about making money? It's the CEO's No. 1 job to do just that. As long as it is legal, they should do it.
 
Jun 4, 2005
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Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Quit bitching about ExxonMobil. You would be really happy if you were a stockholder right now. Why should they feel bad about making money? It's the CEO's No. 1 job to do just that. As long as it is legal, they should do it.

 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Quit bitching about ExxonMobil. You would be really happy if you were a stockholder right now. Why should they feel bad about making money? It's the CEO's No. 1 job to do just that. As long as it is legal, they should do it.


The question is, where do you draw the line between simply making a healthy profit and price gouging?
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Quit bitching about ExxonMobil. You would be really happy if you were a stockholder right now. Why should they feel bad about making money? It's the CEO's No. 1 job to do just that. As long as it is legal, they should do it.


The question is, where do you draw the line between simply making a healty profit and price gouging?

The purpose of a corporation is to make money. The purpose of a government is (among other things) to prevent corporations from crossing the line in pursuit of money. Our current government isn't doing a good job at it.

However, I don't mind gas prices...sucks that I have to pay a lot more, but them's the breaks.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,856
17,724
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Originally posted by: fitzov
Just as long as we can tax your ass--no problem.

A tax on business in nothing more than a tax on consumers. Businesses merely pass the cost of any and all taxes on to consumers. If anything, business taxes do little more than make the US less competitive on the world market, meaning jobs are lost.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,655
4,172
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Originally posted by: Amused
A tax on business in nothing more than a tax on consumers. Businesses merely pass the cost of any and all taxes on to consumers. If anything, business taxes do little more than make the US less competitive on the world market, meaning jobs are lost.
If there was real competition, there is no profit, and thus corporations pay no taxes.

(That is the definition of a competitive market, if there is profit, another competitor will enter the market thereby reducing the profit, this pattern continues until the profit is zero).
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: kyzen
Yay! Blind capitalism! Wooooooo!
Which is bad compared to what? The blind force and coercion of a government-controlled socialism where the people are as free as worker bees?

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
The question is, where do you draw the line between simply making a healthy profit and price gouging?
Obviously the line is drawn between choice and coercion. You don't have to buy gas and oil. Or at least not so much. I look at all this gas price bitching as the same as heroin addicts bitching over the price of heroin.
It's almost summer. The weather's nice. Get out of your cars.
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Quit bitching about ExxonMobil. You would be really happy if you were a stockholder right now. Why should they feel bad about making money? It's the CEO's No. 1 job to do just that. As long as it is legal, they should do it.

Tell that to the victims of the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill.

Exxon can suck my ass.
 

Dirigible

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2006
5,961
32
91
Ah, but should the only purpose of a corporation be to make money?

Should they follow the law? Most agree corporations should not break the law. But is it ok for them to try to find loopholes to violate the spirit of the law?

As a person, I try to follow both the letter and spirit of (most) laws. Why should a corporation not do the same?

Take it a step further, should a corporation follow rules, some sort of moral code, that is not codified in law?

 

fitzov

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2004
2,477
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: fitzov
Just as long as we can tax your ass--no problem.

A tax on business in nothing more than a tax on consumers. Businesses merely pass the cost of any and all taxes on to consumers. If anything, business taxes do little more than make the US less competitive on the world market, meaning jobs are lost.

Cool, then we can simply get all revenues from business. We'll call it "Trickle-down taxation'.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Amused
A tax on business in nothing more than a tax on consumers. Businesses merely pass the cost of any and all taxes on to consumers. If anything, business taxes do little more than make the US less competitive on the world market, meaning jobs are lost.
If there was real competition, there is no profit, and thus corporations pay no taxes.

(That is the definition of a competitive market, if there is profit, another competitor will enter the market thereby reducing the profit, this pattern continues until the profit is zero).
Impossible. Competition drives differentiating innovation between competitors to keep profits up. Plus, should profits decrease significantly to near zero, capital is driven out of that market and into another, more profitable, market. No one works for free (although not all forms of compensation are monetary). This fact is what makes capitalism the most efficient economic system possible. It focuses on the collective motivations of individuals instead of pretending that it is possible to predict the needs of a "larger scheme" that doesn't exist.
 

D1gger

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
5,411
2
76
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Amused
A tax on business in nothing more than a tax on consumers. Businesses merely pass the cost of any and all taxes on to consumers. If anything, business taxes do little more than make the US less competitive on the world market, meaning jobs are lost.
If there was real competition, there is no profit, and thus corporations pay no taxes.

(That is the definition of a competitive market, if there is profit, another competitor will enter the market thereby reducing the profit, this pattern continues until the profit is zero).

That is a little too simplistically stated. There has to be room in any business model for profit or there would be no motive for the business to exist. The factors which effect the entry of another competitor into the market is the cost to enter, either in the form of too much capital required, or availability of the raw materials / expertise / equipment, which make it unattractive for other competitors to enter the market unless the profit levels are sufficiently high to offset the barriers to entry.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: fitzov
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: fitzov
Just as long as we can tax your ass--no problem.

A tax on business in nothing more than a tax on consumers. Businesses merely pass the cost of any and all taxes on to consumers. If anything, business taxes do little more than make the US less competitive on the world market, meaning jobs are lost.

Cool, then we can simply get all revenues from business. We'll call it "Trickle-down taxation'.

When you have an understanding of business and economics besides teenage angst and blind political ideology, come back to us and we can talk then.
 

kyzen

Golden Member
Oct 4, 2005
1,557
0
0
www.chrispiekarz.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: kyzen
Yay! Blind capitalism! Wooooooo!
Which is bad compared to what? The blind force and coercion of a government-controlled socialism where the people are as free as worker bees?

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
The question is, where do you draw the line between simply making a healthy profit and price gouging?
Obviously the line is drawn between choice and coercion. You don't have to buy gas and oil. Or at least not so much. I look at all this gas price bitching as the same as heroin addicts bitching over the price of heroin.
It's almost summer. The weather's nice. Get out of your cars.

I understand the desire of a business to want to constantly increase profits, but there comes a point when a responsible business needs to sit back and look at how much their business is impacting the economy and lives of its customers. It's even more important for them to do so when there is relatively little competition to worry about. If a gargantuan entity like the oil companies can't see fit to take this responsibility on themselves, then there comes a point when the government needs to step in and address the problem, or at least the publics concerns. When we read the news every quarter and continue to see these same companies continue to report bigger and bigger earnings, while our wallets take bigger and bigger hits for their product, it's a perfectly natural response to be pissed off at them, and perfectly logical for the average person to draw a correlation between the amount they are spending, and the amount these companies are earning.

Oh, and for the record, I haven't driven my car anywhere within 15 miles of home in the last 3 months; with the exception of a few trips to Home Depot where my bike or legs just wouldn't cut it for carrying a ton of wood home. I'm saving money on gas, and I'm not spending as much on groceries (since I'd have to carry it all back) :p
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,380
8,509
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Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Amused
A tax on business in nothing more than a tax on consumers. Businesses merely pass the cost of any and all taxes on to consumers. If anything, business taxes do little more than make the US less competitive on the world market, meaning jobs are lost.
If there was real competition, there is no profit, and thus corporations pay no taxes.

(That is the definition of a competitive market, if there is profit, another competitor will enter the market thereby reducing the profit, this pattern continues until the profit is zero).

only economic profit. in a competitive industry, there still may be accounting profit, which the government would tax.


anyway, in a normal market businesses can't pass on the whole of the tax to consumers, because the increased price paid by consumers makes some consumers drop out of the market, reducing the market clearing quantity sold. in normal markets with upward sloping supply curve, this drop in quantity supplied decreases the price gotten by the supplier. so, no, businesses don't merely pass the tax straight through.
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Being an Alaskan, I say we tax the piss out of all oil companies wanting to do exploration up here. If they don't like it they can LEAVE...I garauntee there are oil companies out there chomping at the bit to set up shop in Alaska.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,655
4,172
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Impossible.
I realize that there is very little true competition in the world. My point is that the companies that are taxed the most are often the least competitive companies (ie they have substantial monopolistic characteristics and much less characteristics of true competition). A company which has much greater competition would have less profit, and thus the tax is much less.

Amused's point is the one that is overly simplistic. If there were significant world market competition, then there would not have been large profits and thus there would not have been large taxes.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,655
4,172
126
Originally posted by: ElFenix
so, no, businesses don't merely pass the tax straight through.
I've stated that fact in other threads and just get flamed. If you can successfully take them on, then heres a beer from me. :beer:

 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Originally posted by: Vic
Obviously the line is drawn between choice and coercion. You don't have to buy gas and oil. Or at least not so much. I look at all this gas price bitching as the same as heroin addicts bitching over the price of heroin.
It's almost summer. The weather's nice. Get out of your cars.
Gas prices always brings out the lamest of defenses. Not everyone has the luxory of living next to their workplace and their grocery store. Gas is a necessary requirement for most people's lives, whether *you* want to admit it or not. Gas is not an addiction like heroin.