The proverbial military good deal

[lupi]

Army denies West Point grad a shot at NFL

Second lieutenant had been drafted by Detroit Lions
By Michelle Tan - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Jul 24, 2008 6:09:09 EDT

Caleb Campbell, a 2008 graduate of U.S. Military Academy at West Point, will not get a chance to play in the National Football League, Army and Detroit Lions officials said Wednesday.

The announcement follows a policy signed July 11 by Army Secretary Pete Geren that changed the Army?s policy regarding officers who are given the opportunity to play in professional sports.

The policy requires officers to serve at least two years on active duty before they are allowed to request an early release from their military service obligation. It also calls for Campbell and three other officers who are engaged in professional sports to report to training and then to a unit.

Campbell, a 23-year-old West Point graduate who was selected April 27 by the Detroit Lions in the seventh round of the NFL draft, has been ordered to complete Officer Basic Course and report to a unit.

Under the old policy, if Campbell made the Lions team he would have been assigned to a recruiting unit in Michigan for a shortened commitment of two years on active duty.
In the past, the Army allowed soldiers to be released from active duty commitments to participate in pro sports and other activities that offer the Army a recruiting or public affairs benefit. Soldiers serving the two years on active duty could be assigned to the recruiting unit closest to the location of their sports team or activity. The soldier would then conduct recruiting activities to support the Army instead of, for example, serving in a line unit in Iraq.

In comparison, Mitch Harris, a Naval Academy midshipman who was selected by the St. Louis Cardinals, was ordered to report to his ship for duty after Navy Secretary Donald Winter ruled June 12 that he must serve a five-year commitment.

Harris, a 22-year-old right-handed pitcher with a 95 mph fastball, reported June 16 for two weeks of school at Naval Station Norfolk, Va., then boarded the amphibious transport dock Ponce, where he was to work as a weapons officer.

Also ordered to Officer Basic Course is Michael Viti, a classmate and teammate of Campbell?s who was drafted by the Buffalo Bills. In addition, 1st Lt. Brad Roberts of West Point?s Class of 2006 will no longer play hockey and report to duty as an armor officer at Fort Hood, Texas.

Second Lts. Milan Dinga and Nick Hill, 2007 West Point graduates who play for minor league baseball teams, will be placed on excess leave until their seasons end in September. They will then be ordered to complete OBC and report to units.

Dinga and Hill are being allowed to finish the season to minimize the litigation risk that may arise from breaching their existing players? contracts by reporting immediately for active-duty service, Geren wrote in the memo.




The truly sad thing about this is that the army changed it after getting pressure from the other branches that didn't want to ease up their rules. You may never want to look a gifthorse in the mouth, but In the case of a military gifthorse you never want to get close enough for it to see you.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

So what?

You go to West Point to become an officer in the US Army. You don't go to West Point to become an NFL player. I don't see the problem with this, the military is way overstressed with multiple wars, and they want to bail out of their commitment and play sports? Tough shit.

If he really wanted to try and make the NFL, he should have gone to another school.

 

[StageLeft]

TFB. I sign up for the military I cannot leave because I just got accepted by a firm on Wall Street; I need to finish my term. Professional sports, who gives a sh*t?

 

[Robor]

I'm on the fence on this one. On one side you've got a guy who went to a military school with a goal of serving as an officer in the Army. On the other side you've got a stand-out military athlete who *might* benefit the Army more as a 'recruiter'. IMO two things are certain - the timing of this decision is pretty crappy and Campbell is handling it with class.

 

[Nebor]

These guys made a decision, and an agreement, halfway through their military academies to stay there, finish out their degree and then serve in the Armed Forces for 4-6 years. That part is clear. Expecting to be let out of it for any reason is not reasonable.

However, from the Army's point of view, it seems foolish to throw away the publicity and recruiting opportunities of having an active duty soldier on a pro sports team working to recruit soldiers. "Want to play in the NFL? The US Army could be your ticket."

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Nebor
These guys made a decision, and an agreement, halfway through their military academies to stay there, finish out their degree and then serve in the Armed Forces for 4-6 years. That part is clear. Expecting to be let out of it for any reason is not reasonable.

However, from the Army's point of view, it seems foolish to throw away the publicity and recruiting opportunities of having an active duty soldier on a pro sports team working to recruit soldiers. "Want to play in the NFL? The US Army could be your ticket."

I don't know, I think the military (especially the Army) has enough problems with their ad campaigns trying to make it seem like joining the military is just like going to tech school, and all that "war" stuff is nothing to worry about. It's great for getting people in the door, I suppose, but I don't think they want football players so much as they want soldiers.

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Nebor
These guys made a decision, and an agreement, halfway through their military academies to stay there, finish out their degree and then serve in the Armed Forces for 4-6 years. That part is clear. Expecting to be let out of it for any reason is not reasonable.

However, from the Army's point of view, it seems foolish to throw away the publicity and recruiting opportunities of having an active duty soldier on a pro sports team working to recruit soldiers. "Want to play in the NFL? The US Army could be your ticket."

I don't know, I think the military (especially the Army) has enough problems with their ad campaigns trying to make it seem like joining the military is just like going to tech school, and all that "war" stuff is nothing to worry about. It's great for getting people in the door, I suppose, but I don't think they want football players so much as they want soldiers.

I agree. I don't see how letting the men play would really benefit the army in recruiting...

"Want to play football? Join the Army, go to West Point, get free schooling, and then get out of your obligation to serve."

As if most ring knockers weren't douchebags already that is...

 

[lupi]

How many millions are spent by the military for ad campaigns now? And they turn down what could provide an unknown amount of free advertising. Everytime his team was playing on national TV or he was on the field it would be discussed.

Currently the service acedemies get a miniscual number of those whom think they have the atheletic ability to play professionally. Allowing them to serve as recruiters if they indeed are that good couldn't but help increase that number of those actively applying.

And if allowed to play, he wasn't getting out of his contract, he would be serving as a recruiter. Should we start talking down upon those other members that serve as full time recruiters. This revision to the policy actually does give him an out if he wants it by allowing him to leave the service after 2 years.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Nebor
These guys made a decision, and an agreement, halfway through their military academies to stay there, finish out their degree and then serve in the Armed Forces for 4-6 years. That part is clear. Expecting to be let out of it for any reason is not reasonable.

However, from the Army's point of view, it seems foolish to throw away the publicity and recruiting opportunities of having an active duty soldier on a pro sports team working to recruit soldiers. "Want to play in the NFL? The US Army could be your ticket."

I don't know, I think the military (especially the Army) has enough problems with their ad campaigns trying to make it seem like joining the military is just like going to tech school, and all that "war" stuff is nothing to worry about. It's great for getting people in the door, I suppose, but I don't think they want football players so much as they want soldiers.

I agree. I don't see how letting the men play would really benefit the army in recruiting...

"Want to play football? Join the Army, go to West Point, get free schooling, and then get out of your obligation to serve."

As if most ring knockers weren't douchebags already that is...

You need to think it through more thoroughly. Millions of people think they can be pro athletes. Only a select few make it. You want to get those millions that think they can do it into military academies, then the select few who get drafted for pro sports get to go, leaving you with the vast majority of wannabe pros as soldiers.

 

[GDaddy]

But he was drafted by the Lions, i think the Army might have saved him from a worse evil.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: lupi
How many millions are spent by the military for ad campaigns now? And they turn down what could provide an unknown amount of free advertising. Everytime his team was playing on national TV or he was on the field it would be discussed.

Currently the service acedemies get a miniscual number of those whom think they have the atheletic ability to play professionally. Allowing them to serve as recruiters if they indeed are that good couldn't but help increase that number of those actively applying.

And if allowed to play, he wasn't getting out of his contract, he would be serving as a recruiter. Should we start talking down upon those other members that serve as full time recruiters. This revision to the policy actually does give him an out if he wants it by allowing him to leave the service after 2 years.

Yep. Anyone who watched pro sports - at least the NFL - has seen recruiting commercials over and over during the games. Those cost money. This was free advertising there for the taking. Now the result is negative publicity. Missed opportunity IMO.

Originally posted by: GDaddy
But he was drafted by the Lions, i think the Army might have saved him from a worse evil.

Ouch. :laugh:

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
But he was drafted by the Lions, i think the Army might have saved him from a worse evil.

Afghanistan is also probably safer than Detroit.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Nebor
These guys made a decision, and an agreement, halfway through their military academies to stay there, finish out their degree and then serve in the Armed Forces for 4-6 years. That part is clear. Expecting to be let out of it for any reason is not reasonable.

However, from the Army's point of view, it seems foolish to throw away the publicity and recruiting opportunities of having an active duty soldier on a pro sports team working to recruit soldiers. "Want to play in the NFL? The US Army could be your ticket."

I don't know, I think the military (especially the Army) has enough problems with their ad campaigns trying to make it seem like joining the military is just like going to tech school, and all that "war" stuff is nothing to worry about. It's great for getting people in the door, I suppose, but I don't think they want football players so much as they want soldiers.

I agree. I don't see how letting the men play would really benefit the army in recruiting...

"Want to play football? Join the Army, go to West Point, get free schooling, and then get out of your obligation to serve."

As if most ring knockers weren't douchebags already that is...

You need to think it through more thoroughly. Millions of people think they can be pro athletes. Only a select few make it. You want to get those millions that think they can do it into military academies, then the select few who get drafted for pro sports get to go, leaving you with the vast majority of wannabe pros as soldiers.

You should be going to West Point to be a soldier, not a athlete. If you get a bunch of people that want to be a pro athlete, and they don't get drafted, how do you know they really want to be an officer? Sounds like you get a bunch of people that are stuck in the military because they didn't get drafted (sports draft, that is).

Again, the purpose of West Point is to create professional, career army officers. That's it. It isn't there to be a line on your resume for Wall Street, or to get into the NFL.

And the military is in a (couple of) wars. They need combat troops and combat leaders to lead those troops, not more cushy recruiter jobs.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bbdub333

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Nebor
These guys made a decision, and an agreement, halfway through their military academies to stay there, finish out their degree and then serve in the Armed Forces for 4-6 years. That part is clear. Expecting to be let out of it for any reason is not reasonable.

However, from the Army's point of view, it seems foolish to throw away the publicity and recruiting opportunities of having an active duty soldier on a pro sports team working to recruit soldiers. "Want to play in the NFL? The US Army could be your ticket."

I don't know, I think the military (especially the Army) has enough problems with their ad campaigns trying to make it seem like joining the military is just like going to tech school, and all that "war" stuff is nothing to worry about. It's great for getting people in the door, I suppose, but I don't think they want football players so much as they want soldiers.

I agree. I don't see how letting the men play would really benefit the army in recruiting...

"Want to play football? Join the Army, go to West Point, get free schooling, and then get out of your obligation to serve."

As if most ring knockers weren't douchebags already that is...

You need to think it through more thoroughly. Millions of people think they can be pro athletes. Only a select few make it. You want to get those millions that think they can do it into military academies, then the select few who get drafted for pro sports get to go, leaving you with the vast majority of wannabe pros as soldiers.

You should be going to West Point to be a soldier, not a athlete. If you get a bunch of people that want to be a pro athlete, and they don't get drafted, how do you know they really want to be an officer? Sounds like you get a bunch of people that are stuck in the military because they didn't get drafted (sports draft, that is).

Again, the purpose of West Point is to create professional, career army officers. That's it. It isn't there to be a line on your resume for Wall Street, or to get into the NFL.

And the military is in a (couple of) wars. They need combat troops and combat leaders to lead those troops, not more cushy recruiter jobs.

I could go into a discussion about how recruiting having a difficult time hitting their target goals, but I'll just assume your going with the partisan hack and have neglected already posted similar comments throughout this thread.

There is also the fact the US military has about the largest logistical trail of any combat force many there are many non combat soldiers for every combat soldier.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

@lupi - Excuse me, partisan hack?

I don't understand your link between pro athlete wannabee = want to be soldier. So you might have a bunch of athletic teenagers getting into USMA, but when 99% don't get drafted, are they really going to be enthusiastic about actually getting commissioned? I'm sure some will be, but some (lot? little?) won't. Will most put in their minimum duty time, and bail?

Recruiting is good, and I know they aren't meeting goals. But having more wannabe pro's isn't going to help, at least IMHO. Just like west point is being used by some people to get a free education, then bail out as soon as possible to go to Wall street (or wherever), we don't need people trying to become NFL stars. We need people that want to be career army officers going there, that's all.

And I also don't understand your comment about the tooth:tail ratio. Historically, the military has always been short on combat officer slots (platoon leaders, company commanders) in combat.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
So what?

You go to West Point to become an officer in the US Army. You don't go to West Point to become an NFL player. I don't see the problem with this, the military is way overstressed with multiple wars, and they want to bail out of their commitment and play sports? Tough shit.

If he really wanted to try and make the NFL, he should have gone to another school.

:thumbsup:

well said.

 

[Fern]

My problem with this is that the military changed the rules in the middle of the game. That's a big effin no-no in my book.

When the guys mentioned above went to the academy, then agreed to stay they were operating under rules that said they could play sports. To change them after you graduated and get drafted by a pro team sucks big-time.

The new rule signed July 11 should have been for incoming freshman and people entering the academy in following years

Fern.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: Fern
My problem with this is that the military changed the rules in the middle of the game. That's a big effin no-no in my book.

When the guys mentioned above went to the academy, then agreed to stay they were operating rules that said they could play sports. To change them after you graduated and get drafted by a pro team sucks big-time.

The new rule signed July 11 should have been for incoming freshman and people entering the academy in following years

Fern.

While I agree that it sucks, they are members of the US Army, and essentially, they are at war. The DoD's duty is to provide the best officers they can to man their units, to provide the best leadership they can to the troops. That's a commanders duty, and that is what they are doing. Considerations about pro football careers don't enter into the equation.

This is no different from when they started the "stop lossing", so while it sucks for the cadets, it is their duty as well, and they should know and understand this.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
So what?

You go to West Point to become an officer in the US Army. You don't go to West Point to become an NFL player. I don't see the problem with this, the military is way overstressed with multiple wars, and they want to bail out of their commitment and play sports? Tough shit.

If he really wanted to try and make the NFL, he should have gone to another school.

:thumbsup:

well said.

I guess you guys are missing the fact that the majority of West Point graduates are leaving the Army as soon as possible. They're doing their minimum term of service (5 years) and leaving.

So you can have whatever idealized image of West Point that you want, but in reality it is a free Ivy league education to the majority of attendees. That doesn't make it any less of an institution, but the more quality, athletic people we pump through there, the more leaders we'll end up with.

 

[dainthomas]

1. I'm surprised anyone on that awful team was even looked at by the NFL.
2. This policy change should ensure their recent string of craptacular seasons will continue indefinitely.

GO NAVY! BEAT ARMY!
(AGAIN, AND AGAIN.....)

 

[PELarson]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Staubach

One of the greatest quarterbacks even after serving his requirment as a Annapolis grad!

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
So what?

You go to West Point to become an officer in the US Army. You don't go to West Point to become an NFL player. I don't see the problem with this, the military is way overstressed with multiple wars, and they want to bail out of their commitment and play sports? Tough shit.

If he really wanted to try and make the NFL, he should have gone to another school.

:thumbsup:

well said.

I guess you guys are missing the fact that the majority of West Point graduates are leaving the Army as soon as possible. They're doing their minimum term of service (5 years) and leaving.

So you can have whatever idealized image of West Point that you want, but in reality it is a free Ivy league education to the majority of attendees. That doesn't make it any less of an institution, but the more quality, athletic people we pump through there, the more leaders we'll end up with.

I know, but that's a whole different thread. I think they should up the mandatory time in service, just because so many people use it to cash in Big Business.

USMA, USNA are to put out career officers, so the service requirements should reflect this. 40-50 yeasr ago, we had people like Patton, who went to VMI for a year before he could get into West Point, knowing the Army was his career.

Now a lot just want to slide by, get the ring (and association contacts) and head to wall street.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: PELarson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Staubach

One of the greatest quarterbacks even after serving his requirment as a Annapolis grad!

And they also cut Robinson from the service early to play ball.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: lupi
How many millions are spent by the military for ad campaigns now? And they turn down what could provide an unknown amount of free advertising.

And if the cadet were female, gorgeous and offered a playmate opening that would do lots of recruiting? The 'value' of recruitng in this case runs into the principle of the commitment.

What does it say to the other recuits to say they have to meet the requirement, but this guy is let out?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: lupi
How many millions are spent by the military for ad campaigns now? And they turn down what could provide an unknown amount of free advertising.

And if the cadet were female, gorgeous and offered a playmate opening that would do lots of recruiting? The 'value' of recruitng in this case runs into the principle of the commitment.

What does it say to the other recuits to say they have to meet the requirement, but this guy is let out?

That different people meet the needs of the Army in different ways. Why do some people jump out of planes into hostile territory while some handle military divorces? Different skill sets according to the needs of the army.

And having a soldier as a playmate would have off the charts recruiting potential, IMO. It makes being a soldier seems sexy and feminine to women and, it obviously draws in men who want to serve alongside beautiful, sexy women.