The Problem With Europe

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
There's a problem in Old Europe. The Euro-Elites are facing a great obstacle they so wish to
subdue. They are not threatened by radical Islamic extremism, an empowered Russia, or anything
else like that... they reserve their greatest fear and loathing for their great nemesis the
United States. Allied with our own homegrown Elites, they hope to remake America in their own
image, and are engaged in a serious battle to make this happen.

The problem stems from a tradition, a culture in Europe, that breeds Elitism and fosters a
general dislike for the qualities that make the United States great. These fundamental
differences between old and new world are emerging at a time when such differences are magnified
by the current international issues. They are worth observing.

The culture of Europe has been dominated by a long history of serfdom and tribalism. These caste
systems, national and local chauvinism, rule of brute force, control by elites, and endless
bloody wars has resulted in a dominant culture that is essentially neo-fuedalistic. Europeans
are disarmed in the face of authoritarianism... they may hate it, in fundamentally these see
themselves as wrong and state right. An American would rebel from the bottom of his soul...
defiance, not obediance, is the American answer to overbearing authority.

The history of the US is not the same as Europe and has bred a much different animal. In America
old ideas of creed, nationality, or class had little bearing. Independence, a pioneer spirit,
self-sufficiency, risk-taking, direct action and innovation were guiding concepts. Americans
loved rough-hewn heroes who stand up for their beliefs and possess a clear vision of what they
want. We love mavericks. We're skeptical of authority, democratic by instinct, and
entrepreneurial by choice. Over there, the 'Ideal Man' was a scholarly, aristocratic gentlemen
of leisure... over here Teddy Roosevely was our hero, over there it was Friedrich Nietszche.

In Europe festered the remanants of an pre-Enlightenment past, living off of faded glories and
newfound envy. Today this clash is pushed to the forefront. With the Elites (the modern day
equivelent of Lords) firmly in power in politics, the media, entertainment, schools, and
business, and the masses (the modern day equivelent of the loyal serf), Europe has made it a
priority to oppose and despise the United States because of who we are: The can-do culture
versus the can't-face-doing crowd. There is no doubt in which society stands to lose.

They are repulsed by our guns, our religion, and our power. We are bullies and cowboys. We have
the death penalty, limited government, and drive SUVs. There is a desperate desire to force us
to change our ways, because that's what Elite's do... after all, they always know what's best.
They don't understand us, and what they don't understand they treat with contempt. They are
bitter over their decay, low growth rates, unemployment, loss of power and prestige, and it's
the easy way out to point fingers at the dynamic engine of power and progress.

The Europeans can't speak softly and carry a big stick, so they scream constantly with a twig in
hand... and I'm supposed to change for them. I'd rather be hated but right.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
0
0
I think that pretty much hit every possible anti European prejudice. Might have missed one or two.

So after that wonderful speech you wana tell everyone how the US is "right"? At least it got the first part of that comment right "hated".
 

ForThePeople

Member
Jul 30, 2004
199
0
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Long rant...

My first question to you is whether you have ever lived in Europe? Or speak any other languages (ie German, French, etc).

My second is more a statement of facts.

Europe is quickly becoming more economically viable than America. It's no accident that the Euro is stronger than the dollar and that they can come here and easily outspend Americans with their 35% discount.

You do realize that we are a country of importers, like Europe, and that we both import all of our stuff from China?

And that the quality of life is markedly better in some European countries than in a lot of single industry town red America?

I think this is just a pre-packaged anti-European rant from some Bible Belter who has never left his own country.

I lived there and I can you that your rant is ridiculous and that the power of the European economy is just beginning to eclipse ours.

It's no accident that the major cell phone company is Swedish (Nokia), that the best machinery and mechanical know-how is German and Swiss, and that all of our American drugs are manufactured in Swiss labs.

Europe is a continent of literate, science loving people. I doubt most Americans could pass the exams required for even a high school degree in Europe.

We're just a bunch of gun and Jesus loving fat people addicted to imported electronics and foreign oil. Or at least you red staters are.
 

Chinadefender

Member
Dec 1, 2004
161
0
0
I cannot help laughing!!!

To be frank

Now people in all continents like EU much more than US.

By the way, Bush is also an ?elite?, although he pretend to be a cowboy in order to scratch more votes. Yale guy, right?

His brilliant family history can be traced to his grandgrandfather???Knew President Hoover???

O! Another Kennedy family..... ;)
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
First off I was born, raised and spent most of my life growing up in europe.

That being said, that article/opinion made absolutely no sense. None. Zero.

The argument is based on the same old disillusioned and shortsighted idea of people hating the *american* way of life. I suppose it's really easy to just summarize geopolitical and historical event's into the "they hate our freedom" bin. Why are the terrorists trying to hurt us? Oh they hate your freedom and way of life. I mean this simplification has "worked" for the democratic process in this country (who best represents your beliefs and values- a donkey or an elephant?), so why not make overy broad and generalized assumptions everywhere else...

However this little editorily does pretty much explains why not just europeans, but a notable portion of the world share the negative sentiment against the people of this country. It's arrogance like this spawns these emotions. If you have bimbos like Anne Coulter saying on national TV that canadians should be gratefull we allow them to be on the same continent, what kinda of impresseion are you gonna leave on canada or the rest of the world?

As far as the "can do attitude" versus the lazy europeans, just keep in mind that as of May 1st the EU has higher aggregate GDP (PPP) than the US.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: Chinadefender
I cannot help laughing!!!

To be frank

Now people in all continents like EU much more than US.

By the way, Bush is also an ?elite?, although he pretend to be a cowboy in order to scratch more votes. Yale guy, right?

His brilliant family history can be traced to his grandgrandfather???Knew President Hoover???

O! Another Kennedy family..... ;)

Aw but I thought his father landed him in Yale so it doesn't count.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
There's a problem in Old Europe. The Euro-Elites are facing a great obstacle they so wish to
subdue. They are not threatened by radical Islamic extremism, an empowered Russia, or anything
else like that... they reserve their greatest fear and loathing for their great nemesis the
United States. Allied with our own homegrown Elites, they hope to remake America in their own
image, and are engaged in a serious battle to make this happen.

Um, they are threatened by radical Islamic extremism within their own populations due to their human rights abuses. Xenophobia, racism, discrimination is rampant there.

You are correct about Europe trying to force the world to change their ways but I think everyone does that. You can easily see Europe bullying people into their views from Kyoto, ICC, and other colonialism revivals.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: cwjerome
There's a problem in Old Europe. The Euro-Elites are facing a great obstacle they so wish to
subdue. They are not threatened by radical Islamic extremism, an empowered Russia, or anything
else like that... they reserve their greatest fear and loathing for their great nemesis the
United States. Allied with our own homegrown Elites, they hope to remake America in their own
image, and are engaged in a serious battle to make this happen.

Um, they are threatened by radical Islamic extremism within their own populations due to their human rights abuses. Xenophobia, racism, discrimination is rampant there.

You are correct about Europe trying to force the world to change their ways but I think everyone does that. You can easily see Europe bullying people into their views from Kyoto, ICC, and other colonialism revivals.

The Kyoto Treaty was doomed from the start as it excluded USA, India and China from the list

and it only has i believe 39 participants in it
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: ForThePeople
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Long rant...

My first question to you is whether you have ever lived in Europe? Or speak any other languages (ie German, French, etc).

Doesn't matter. Have you ever been to Iraq?

My second is more a statement of facts.

Europe is quickly becoming more economically viable than America. It's no accident that the Euro is stronger than the dollar and that they can come here and easily outspend Americans with their 35% discount.

Well, Europe is economically shrinking due to their embracing of xenophobia. They need immigration to survive, but they want a homogeneous society (aka white-only).

You do realize that we are a country of importers, like Europe, and that we both import all of our stuff from China?

And that the quality of life is markedly better in some European countries than in a lot of single industry town red America?

Great comparison there. Those are some low standards!

I think this is just a pre-packaged anti-European rant from some Bible Belter who has never left his own country.

I lived there and I can you that your rant is ridiculous and that the power of the European economy is just beginning to eclipse ours.

Makes sense if you're counting the whole European continent.

It's no accident that the major cell phone company is Swedish (Nokia), that the best machinery and mechanical know-how is German and Swiss, and that all of our American drugs are manufactured in Swiss labs.

Europe is a continent of literate, science loving people. I doubt most Americans could pass the exams required for even a high school degree in Europe.

Well, the US spends almost twice as much as all of Europe on research, supports immigration which greatly supports science, has the an incredible amount of university research, military research, etc. It's pretty amazing that the leading technological country in the world is filled with people that couldn't pass a high school exam. If that describes Americans, then that's not very flattering for everyone else.

We're just a bunch of gun and Jesus loving fat people addicted to imported electronics and foreign oil. Or at least you red staters are.

Don't worry, most Europeans are a bunch of racist and royalty loving xenophobes addicted to imported electronics and foreign oil.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: cwjerome
There's a problem in Old Europe. The Euro-Elites are facing a great obstacle they so wish to
subdue. They are not threatened by radical Islamic extremism, an empowered Russia, or anything
else like that... they reserve their greatest fear and loathing for their great nemesis the
United States. Allied with our own homegrown Elites, they hope to remake America in their own
image, and are engaged in a serious battle to make this happen.

Um, they are threatened by radical Islamic extremism within their own populations due to their human rights abuses. Xenophobia, racism, discrimination is rampant there.

You are correct about Europe trying to force the world to change their ways but I think everyone does that. You can easily see Europe bullying people into their views from Kyoto, ICC, and other colonialism revivals.

The Kyoto Treaty was doomed from the start as it excluded USA, India and China from the list

and it only has i believe 39 participants in it

Also, most of the world has rejected further talks on Kyoto. That includes US and other developed nations, developing nations, oil nations, etc. The world will not tolerate another era of European colonialism.
 

Chinadefender

Member
Dec 1, 2004
161
0
0
It is a long long history that many American politicians like to pretend to be simplehearted, rustic cowboys or countrymen, although they are at least millionaires and would not leave their luxurious houses near metropolis in most of their lifetime, and never refuse to send their children to elite schools via donations.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
I had some good stuff on friday, got pretty good visuals out of Meddle. But, I want what you're having. It sounds quite powefull.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Some here are still pissed off that Europe stood out of the Iraq mess while we jumped in head first.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Well that was a pretty interesting yet pretty worthless post from the OP.

Some here are still pissed off that Europe stood out of the Iraq mess while we jumped in head first.

But some European countries were/are involved with Iraq.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Well that was a pretty interesting yet pretty worthless post from the OP.

Some here are still pissed off that Europe stood out of the Iraq mess while we jumped in head first.

But some European countries were/are involved with Iraq.

You mean the Coalition of the Leaving?
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Well that was a pretty interesting yet pretty worthless post from the OP.

Some here are still pissed off that Europe stood out of the Iraq mess while we jumped in head first.

But some European countries were/are involved with Iraq.

You mean the Coalition of the Leaving?

Noones leaving. The countries set time limits on when they will pull their troops out of Iraq and they are just following thru.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Chinadefender
I cannot help laughing!!!

To be frank

Now people in all continents like EU much more than US.

By the way, Bush is also an ?elite?, although he pretend to be a cowboy in order to scratch more votes. Yale guy, right?

His brilliant family history can be traced to his grandgrandfather???Knew President Hoover???

O! Another Kennedy family..... ;)

Aw but I thought his father landed him in Yale so it doesn't count.

Either way, he's an "elite", either intellectually or based on the class he belongs to. He is not an average joe from Texas, he was born in Connecticut, went to Yale, and belongs to a rich and powerful family. It's pretty unlikely he would be president without those connections.

In any case, I find it interesting that the things I like about the American cowboy mythos are the very reasons I dispise the right in this country so much. cwjerore claims TR as an American hero, and I agree, but I can't help wondering what he would think of the current state of the right in America...
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Well that was a pretty interesting yet pretty worthless post from the OP.

Some here are still pissed off that Europe stood out of the Iraq mess while we jumped in head first.

But some European countries were/are involved with Iraq.

You mean the Coalition of the Leaving?

Well it seems like they were supposed to leave...and it doesn't matter. It seems that they did not stand out of the Iraq mess at all.
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Bull.

We are threatened by extremism. And by islamic, but mostly by american, OP's extremism. We have no problem with any normal american. Sadly many people are threatened by muslims, far too much. This must indeed be dealt with. There are many many stupid europeans aswell.
We do not want to make america in our own image. We are just afraid of extremists.

We do definently not disslike america, especially not the things that makes it great. We dislike the values that makes america not great. I myself am a great admirer of america, and i find it a wonderfull country.

We are not disarmed in the face of authoriatism. We have none in europe. The united states have authoriatism, Bush is doing a great job towards that. Our belief in the government refers to moderation. We see no reason to run amok, we see reasons to change things.

We love america for it's rough heroes, for it's clear vision. But these days people are overdoing it. We love america, with moderation. And obviously you haven't read much Nietzsche, he has nothing to do with modern day europe. Modern day europe is based upon scientific spirit, about being critical to things.

I have no idea where you get the idea about lords and serf's from. That's a very stereotypical view of europe. The lords are dead. Todays politicians have no elitist about them, they are people striving to make their countries better. We don't oppose your culture. We have adapted your culture, to get rid of the outdated belief about authoriatism. The old europe, is dead.

We are repulsed by your guns, religion, not your power. The way you use your power. We do not want to change your ways, we just believe in moderation. Blunt force is old, it's outdated, it belonged to the middle ages. America, is the outdated country here. We don't mind your low taxes, your lack of social security. What we do mind is your blunt stupidity.
Decay? Low growth rates? Unemployment? Prestige?
You are babling, growth rates are just fine in most of europe, Decay? Compared to american christian belief system? Secularism? I pray, for that decay. Unemployment is the same in my country as it is in the united states. 6%. Prestige? Loss of Power? Who cares about these things. Not I. Power is economic, that's what we have.

There are alot of fools in europe, there are some fools in america.
 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Unfortunately, CanOWorms is right. There is alot of ahte towards foreign things in europe. But you are overdoing it. This is something that has just been brought up in the european minds, and it is something that is to be adapted over the following years. And it will get better. The time of the european racist is ending. I hope. I'm not one of them at least. The amount of money spent on research is very admirable, and is greatly because of your pioneering spirit, which we indeed do admire.
 

Skyclad1uhm1

Lifer
Aug 10, 2001
11,383
87
91
Originally posted by: Forsythe
Unfortunately, CanOWorms is right. There is alot of ahte towards foreign things in europe. But you are overdoing it. This is something that has just been brought up in the european minds, and it is something that is to be adapted over the following years. And it will get better. The time of the european racist is ending. I hope. I'm not one of them at least. The amount of money spent on research is very admirable, and is greatly because of your pioneering spirit, which we indeed do admire.

Look at all the hate against Europe and the rest of the world shown by him and some of the other Americans on here. How can he complain about others thinking America sux when his opinion to the rest of the world is exactly the same? How is hate against Americans 'racism' in the first place? Americans are not a race. Otherwise hate against Europeans would also be racism, wouldn't it?

There is Muslim fundamentalism in Europe, and they are fighting it harder and harder. They don't however protect the Saudi banks who fund the terrorists, nor did most of the European countries fund, equip and train the Taliban, Al Qaida and Iraq. Unlike the US. So don't whine if the extremists turn on you, and don't whine that no one is helping the US, as a lot of European countries still have soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, to clean up the mess the US created in the first place. (First by helping dictators to power, then by kicking down the government and not taking enough precautions to prevent the followers of that government to organize and fight a guerilla war)

Most Europeans don't have much against the average American, most do however have something against your government. We understand that the average American likes things plain and simple, and therefor immediately forgot being lied to by Bush & Co. WMDs? Links between Saddam and Al Qaida? Constitutional ban on homosexual marriage? Do you trust what Bush and his friends tell you about Europe? Or about all the countries which Bush now puts among the 'Axis of Evil'?
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: Forsythe

We are not disarmed in the face of authoriatism. We have none in europe. The united states have authoriatism, Bush is doing a great job towards that. Our belief in the government refers to moderation. We see no reason to run amok, we see reasons to change things.

Open your eyes! No authoriatism in Europe? LOL